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@ that absurd Blackdown bashing:

I'd be happy to have someone like Blackdown here in Germany, a journalist who is part of the scene
+ a great producer
+ has the capacity to analyze what's going on
+ his analyses and intellectual outlook visibly driven by excitement about the music itself and NOT by "middle class" aspirations.
Whereas in electronic-music Germany there is an unholy alliance of journalists and producers in that a lot of producers seem to have little else in mind than receiving the accolade from the journalist/art/designer caste, i.e. being featured in magazines like de:bug or Groove with a photograph of themselves wearing the usual garments (here fashion varies of course). And the really bad thing is: you can often HEAR it in the music. It lacks intensity, passion, stubbernness, relentlessness. It's tamed and refined. Cooled down and a bit detached. And it suits certain furniture.
So to clarify a misunderstanding:

Blackdown wrote: funky isnt really house and it definitely isnt middle class.

I didn't say that UK funky was "middle class". I agree with Blackdown (or, being far away from the London pulse and therefore not competent to judge I'd rather say that I trust him ) that UK funky is NOT middle class. It sure sounds relentless.
I was talking about "Martyn" whose music clearly differs from that of Joy Orbison or Karizma. And I wouldn't dare to call Martyn himself "middle class" (I don't know him). It's just that it was his music that was declared to represent dubstep by German journos (in 2008) and was therefore an instrument in causing "the split" here in Germany.
Now, although I think that art reception and production are easily invaded by a will to social class distinction, I cling to the believe that this need not necessarily be so. Especially not in music, which so much defies symbolisation. So I'll shut my mouth now.

su wrote:@ that absurd Blackdown bashing:

I'd be happy to have someone like Blackdown here in Germany, a journalist who is part of the scene
+ a great producer
+ has the capacity to analyze what's going on
+ his analyses and intellectual outlook visibly driven by excitement about the music itself and NOT by "middle class" aspirations.
Whereas in electronic-music Germany there is an unholy alliance of journalists and producers in that a lot of producers seem to have little else in mind than receiving the accolade from the journalist/art/designer caste, i.e. being featured in magazines like de:bug or Groove with a photograph of themselves wearing the usual garments (here fashion varies of course). And the really bad thing is: you can often HEAR it in the music. It lacks intensity, passion, stubbernness, relentlessness. It's tamed and refined. Cooled down and a bit detached. And it suits certain furniture.
So to clarify a misunderstanding:

Blackdown wrote: funky isnt really house and it definitely isnt middle class.

I didn't say that UK funky was "middle class". I agree with Blackdown (or, being far away from the London pulse and therefore not competent to judge I'd rather say that I trust him ) that UK funky is NOT middle class. It sure sounds relentless.
I was talking about "Martyn" whose music clearly differs from that of Joy Orbison or Karizma. And I wouldn't dare to call Martyn himself "middle class" (I don't know him). It's just that it was his music that was declared to represent dubstep by German journos (in 2008) and was therefore an instrument in causing "the split" here in Germany.
Now, although I think that art reception and production are easily invaded by a will to social class distinction, I cling to the believe that this need not necessarily be so. Especially not in music, which so much defies symbolisation. So I'll shut my mouth now.

First of all, Blackdown isn't very good as analyzing anything at all. He's good at pointing out the obvious.

Dubstep OG's are jumping ship the minute it becomes cool to like Dubstep for the average raver. Real shocker there, the bandwagon jumpers jumping bandwagon. Creating an echo chamber and then saying "see, the echo says the same thing" doesn't give you any credibility in my eyes.

And another thing... a lot has been made about whether or not music is "middle class" almost as if MIDDLE CLASS is some sort of pejorative term. MIDDLE CLASS aspirations would include such heresy as wanting to own your own home, your own vehicle, have your own children in a safe environment, have decent clothes and a decent job that you can afford to eat and maybe take a vacation once a year.

Yea, what a bunch of pricks that middle class. When someone says that music is middle class and implies that their music is "urban" what they are basically saying to me is that if some guy with a family, kids and a 9-5 job is making tunes they will instantly be devoid of any emotion or sense of yearning for something better. Like once you have that job and that family and a somewhat stable life you have nothing left to say anymore of note musically. You sold your soul, by mere virtue of providing for your family the old fashioned way. You can pay your bills, so the music will certainly suffer because your tunes don't sound like you have your poverty on your mind...

Waste. That's why I don't listen to shit Blackdown says, that is why people think he's pompous. He makes these proclamations of class warfare like he knows what the fuck class warfare is living in London suburbs.

And another thing... Journalists write hard news, not opinions. If you write opinions, you are an analyst and your opinions are only as valid as the public deem them to be. So yea, public critique of that opinion is fair game. Shit, it's required. If there is no public vetting, how do you know if he's really as solid as you think he is? I mean really... London is middle class... looking at the cost of real estate in your average neighborhood in London is... well, it costs more than it does in the states, where we have a rather thriving "middle class" compared to the middle class of some other countries. All I'm saying is that if you don't have musical talent and artistic vision, no amount of poverty and exploiting house and calling it something else will save you from mediocre house knockoff status.

Who came up with the term "Funky" anyway... bit self serving really to coin a new term for what you, yourself are doing, so instantly it becomes "innovative"

well was good to have 7 or 8 pages with peace, only, or nearly...
tea time is over...

Surface_Tension wrote: Yea, what a bunch of pricks that middle class. When someone says that music is middle class and implies that their music is "urban" what they are basically saying to me is that if some guy with a family, kids and a 9-5 job is making tunes they will instantly be devoid of any emotion or sense of yearning for something better. Like once you have that job and that family and a somewhat stable life you have nothing left to say anymore of note musically. You sold your soul, by mere virtue of providing for your family the old fashioned way. You can pay your bills, so the music will certainly suffer because your tunes don't sound like you have your poverty on your mind...

lol, nah dude.

"urban" is code word for black.

funky is def black music.

dancehall house imho.

human? wrote:

Surface_Tension wrote: Yea, what a bunch of pricks that middle class. When someone says that music is middle class and implies that their music is "urban" what they are basically saying to me is that if some guy with a family, kids and a 9-5 job is making tunes they will instantly be devoid of any emotion or sense of yearning for something better. Like once you have that job and that family and a somewhat stable life you have nothing left to say anymore of note musically. You sold your soul, by mere virtue of providing for your family the old fashioned way. You can pay your bills, so the music will certainly suffer because your tunes don't sound like you have your poverty on your mind...

lol, nah dude.

"urban" is code word for black.

funky is def black music.

dancehall house imho.

So it's a nice way of being underhandedly racist?

let's blame blackdown for everything while we're at it. global warming and the price of burgers as well.
blackdown is a journalist. he's not writing things down to make a social studies lesson. he's not doing a thesis paper on the stratification of the classes in great britain. he's writing for a * music site *...HELLLO

no one's forcing you to read pitchfork. regardless of blackdown and dusk's music (which is not the topic of discussion at all mind you) without the efforts of him, gutterbreakz, kode 9 and others in the early days, we wouldn't be nearly close to having the prosperous scene we have at the moment. i don't think people understand how much work and commitment martin's devoted to this scene. set your reactionary opinions about his blog aside ( there's always been parts of his body of work that i don't agree with, but AGAIN...its his fucking opinions!!!), he's got just as much right as anyone to say it how he feels. if he wants to create genres, and classifications, who's stopping him? its not like he's got the magic genre button by his keyboard.

BunZer0 wrote:well was good to have 7 or 8 pages with peace, only, or nearly...
tea time is over...

exactly man. another thread off into reactionary land.

seckle sums it up well again, big up

mondays child wrote:Anyone got any macaroons???

no but quickly, blame blackdown, because soon someone's going to find racism in macaroons too.

Surface_Tension wrote:
So it's a nice way of being underhandedly racist?

wat?

not really. at least not from blackdown imho.

and it doesnt EXACTLY mean black...

and in germany, it probably has a different meaning...




i get what dude is saying.

seckle wrote:let's blame blackdown for everything while we're at it. global warming and the price of burgers as well.
blackdown is a journalist. he's not writing things down to make a social studies lesson. he's not doing a thesis paper on the stratification of the classes in great britain. he's writing for a * music site *...HELLLO

no one's forcing you to read pitchfork. regardless of blackdown and dusk's music (which is not the topic of discussion at all mind you) without the efforts of him, gutterbreakz, kode 9 and others in the early days, we wouldn't be nearly close to having the prosperous scene we have at the moment. i don't think people understand how much work and commitment martin's devoted to this scene. set your reactionary opinions about his blog aside ( there's a always been parts of his body of work that i don't agree with, but AGAIN...its his fucking opinions!!!), he's got just as much right as anyone to say it how he feels. if he wants to create genres, and classifications, whose stopping him? its not like he's got the magic genre button by his keyboard.

You forget someone who was ultimately responsible far more than this site, Kode 9, Gutterbreakz and Blackdown's blog... the one who spent so much time ripping those sets and making sure that they were available to the entire world... without whom none of this would have ever happened... ring any bells?

Without him, Gutterbreakz, Kode 9, Blackdown, Dubstep isn't a household term to most of us. Kode 9 is some producer from another country that nobody in the states had heard of. We'd never have heard him almost certainly. So put that in perspective in terms of what Blackdown did... he has limited numbers of readers. Those sets on Barefiles changed the entire game. Leaving that out is 1000% ignorant and anyone who is truly OG knows it. I'd have never heard Dubstep in the middle of a fucking cornfield without it.

p.s. journalists are not beyond criticism. and if he fancies himself a journalist, perhaps a spell checker wouldn't hurt. but that's been said and ignored.

"great thread until someone came in here with a different opinion and we couldn't slap them down with Blackdown's ego"

FTL.

who was doubting deapoh's effort in making dubstep the force it is now?

Surface_Tension wrote:Dubstep in the middle of a fucking cornfield

explains alot

dude, dont be so angry lol. you could disagree and not insult....

lightness wrote:

deamonds wrote:

TeReKeTe wrote:
again on the US stuff, Karizma is absolutely blowing me away these days w/ stuff on the my pal joey trip. Super-syncopated, eyes-down-ish detroit styles via baltimore. and mixdowns with WAAAAAY too much bass . Definitely some of my favorite dance music currently.

Hi, would you be able to point me a mix to check out?

http://www.mediafire.com/?cnikttgzn52
http://www.mediafire.com/?jidkd1f31hm
http://www.mediafire.com/?yyfy2tkwwtg

three hour Karizma set somewhere sometime last year

whoa, thanks for this lightness

this isn't a dubstep history lesson, and pardon me but i don't remember you around before 2005, so i'm not going to debate with you about who should and who shouldn't be included in some theoretical feel good list about who's done what and who hasn't.

that's not the subject we're discussing. the point i'm trying to make is that blackdown, gutter,steve goodman and one or two others, with the help of ammunition...were the foundation of the first bits of writing done on this scene. period. it's a respect thing, and digging into him personally, or the music he writes isn't the point of his thread. people need to show some respect for hardwork.

i'm done.

-Dubson- wrote:who was doubting deapoh's effort in making dubstep the force it is now?

When naming off lists of reasons that Dubstep exploded and reached a worldwide audience his name should be at the top, not forgotten only to be brought up later as some footnote. The worldwide spread of Dubstep in large part came about because of that effort. It is regularly forgotten.

Look back at the mixes forum in 2005-6-7 and see where all those sets were hosted at. Anyone who would post something on a free hosting link that would expire, Deapoh would host it... any radio show, Deapoh would host it... he would spend hours and hours ripping and uploading sets. nobody outside of FM range in the UK would have ever heard them without that effort.

In our country when you hear middle, lower, upper class it's generally from a politician... how much do we care what they think? Oh you didn't know me in 2005 Seckle, I must not have existed then.

hmmm

was thinking about this and i think one of the big things is straight up do you like to dance by yourself or with somebody.

i personally dig a comfortable middle ground, kinda by myself with girls.



some beats arent for dancing together at all lol, and other are so much so for dancing together that they dont do much for my head... either extreme can get boring to me... all about the variety... and there ARE 7 nights in a week

dunno, was just thinking, and dont remember dance style being brought up too much as like, maybe THE thing....

damn, y'all who wanted to bust up a thread couldn't have screwed w/ the 24-page idiot-magnet that is the "Coki-Goblin" one?

:S

extremely unimpressed.

otherwise:

--I always forget how much of an issue "class" is in Europe and the UK. Almost more like caste. If i'm wrong, great: prove me wrong.
--I don't think anyone other than Blackdown agrees w/ his point of view 100% of the time. That's what makes it interesting discourse.
--those of you dissing "Margins Music" clearly have never played "kuri pataka" to a room full of people that want to dance.

sadly, it appears that this thread is now unsalvageable.

Does anyone else think Surface_Tension is a right c*nt? I'm surprised he finds time to contribute to this thread, must be a slow day on his self-promoting one.

time to lock ?