WTF America... wtf...

[deadly_habit]

http://www.mylocalcrime.com/#43.157672%2C%20-77.61297
crime maps are a good way to gauge if people's worry and wanting to be armed are warranted

[the wiggle baron]

v
crime maps are a good way to gauge if people's worry and wanting to be armed are warranted

Only if you think being armed is going to help!
And im not sure how trustworthy that map is. Looked up where I live and its either missing, or lumped into "other crimes" a murder, a hit n run road death and 2 counts of rape.

[dubmatters]

I can't imagine someone who has taken another persons life in self defense feels good at any point. I've dealt with a home invader before and had to fight him off until the police arrived.

Am I less of a man because I didn't smash his skull in and end up in prison?

There is a good arguemet for reasonable force.

The guy was a heroin addict btw.

I do understand that some things need to be taken care of using violence. But your the one who has to deal with theit actions for the rest of your life.

[flyingointment]

On that MyLocalCrime site, there are 2 armed robberies and 1 shooting/stabbing listed 2 blocks and 4 blocks away from my house, respectively.

I didn't even know about any of those.

[pkay]

This point is in no way related to the argument on gun legalization nor does it imply that I support private ownership... it does however, say I understand the motivation by a lot of americans to arm themselves. I don't condone, but I do understand.

I don't condone driving gas guzzling SUV's but I understand.
I don't condone abusing drugs but I understand.
I don't condone a lot of things but I understand.

Our european counterparts do not understand, my comments were trying to aide them in understanding

I'm going to get back on track and either let this thread die or get back to healthy discussion about the topic at hand. If you wish to make this about you again I'll have to politely not play along.

i kinda resent that man, i've obviously shown that i understand what you're talking about but i just dont agree

what i didn't 'understand' or 'get' was some of the ridiculous over-reactions and denials of some people

seeing that Svpreme has just come through and admitted that US paranoia is actually a problem is kind of good to hear though, least there has been SOME concession to the problem

things like when you make a point about a) the size and b) the population of America, but then Svpreme comes on and you yourself have referenced some serial killers it only serves to validate the idea that paranoia is like a disease to some Americans.

But in the same way i think yeh, you DO have a reason to be paranoid, your society is inherently violent, your films are for the most part based on violence which is symptomiatic as opposed to a direct cause, your history (which is probably the main reason) too, your politics and your news

but thats not to say you have no choice

i understand your desire to protect your family, that is completely justifiable, i'd be severely worried if you were another way, i think a part of this could be down to the level of patriotism/hegemony in your country - but i've gota go out so i'll make the rest of that point when i get back!

Don't resent it. There is shit on a daily basis I dont understand that you guys do. It is the difference of cultures

[flyingointment]

This is also something to consider.

Not trying to say that this kind of shit is extremely common, but why take a chance?

you already said that it's rare...

there's a chance that whenever you get on a plane it might get hijacked and you'd all die - does that mean everyone should be allowed to carry a gun on a plane? of course not

it all comes back to fear again. if you plan for the worst possibile eventuality then things have a tendency to be self-fulfilling. person a is afraid of getting shot dead so carries a gun, so when person b tries to mug them, person a pulls out a gun and ends up losing their life when they could just have lost their wallet. or a student carries a gun out of fear and then one day that previously impeccable student has a mental breakdown and goes on a killing spree

as noam's said, noone is denying that america is violent but violence begets violence. the causes of the excessive violence in america - from both criminals and ordinary members of the public who believe that violence is the only defence - are what needs adressing; not guns or other weapons

it's the collective psychology of america that needs sorting out more than anything else

The original debate was about whether or not students should be allowed to carry guns around, which is something that I don't agree with to begin with. I was simply defending the right to own a gun and have it in your house to use in any kind of worst case scenario, should something like that arise. I do think that security guards should be allowed to carry guns in cases where that shit is legitimately justified, like say, in jewelry stores or even just places that sell expensive shit like Apple stores (I know that might sound ridiculous, but there have actually been instances of people trying to rob Apples stores with guns - recently, there was a case with 2 men and a women who tried to rob one, one of them was shot dead). I don't necessarily think that's over the top, considering the frequency of armed robberies in the US...one of the first things I said in this thread was that I don't think most people living in the US absolutely need a concealed carry permit, but I do think we should have the right to owns guns and keep them in homes if we choose to. If I owned a gun and someone broke into my house I would certainly be inclined to shoot them, though my aim would be to incapacitate them.

Edit: Looking at this MyLocalCrime site is quickly making me reconsider my stance on the concealed carry thing. lol

[flyingointment]

Goddamn. This happened not far from my house, as well.

...it's ridiculous that you guys think you're in any position to tell me I don't need a motherfucking gun. : |

[pkay]

http://www.mylocalcrime.com/#32.713618%2C%20-97.30832

holy shit. The neighborhood I grew up in lol. That's just the past 6 weeks.

Oddly no shootings

[noam]

Goddamn. This happened not far from my house, as well.

...it's ridiculous that you guys think you're in any position to tell me I don't need a motherfucking gun. : |

she got shot because she attempted to fight them off...

this is what im talking about

if you had a gun in that situation i reckon you'd be dead mate, you're no gangster, you make garage tunes and chat shit on an internet forum lol

posessions aren't that important to shoot someone over for trying to take your fucking ipod

jesus christ

this makes me sad

[flyingointment]

if you had a gun in that situation i reckon you'd be dead mate, you're no gangster, you make garage tunes and chat shit on an internet forum lol

I don't see why me making garage would come into play at all, just because you're too much of a bitch to defend yourself doesn't mean I am or that everyone else is.

Don't project your innate weaknesses onto me because of some misguided moralistic idealistic approach to life that you want me to adopt. I don't give a fuck if you are for or against guns, but you're in no position to tell me I can't be.

[flyingointment]

...and furthermore, you point out that the lady fought back like you think she deserved to die for it. That's just fucked up beyond belief.

[test_recordings]

What does the average American think will solve crime? Does anyone have some surveys or anything?

[collige]

At the end of the day, any talk of banning guns in America is pointless because it simply isn't possible. Full stop.

[noam]

i meant you're a geek music producer mate, there's a reason you aint rollin deep with G's and instead you're sat at a computer for most of your days

this is what im talkin about with the badman attitude, you. are. not. a. badman.

i reckon its a New York thing more than anywhere

and the example i gave before about the soldiers applies so much to this attitude, talk it up big, when it comes to actually doing anything - shit your pants and flop out lol

you shouldn't play with fire, if someone tries to rob you, fuck it, they have your i-pod. if you start supermannin it you're gona get burned.

and in response to that last thing, i didnt say she deserved to die. didn't say that at all, you're trying to put words in my mouth so you can win an argument.

i said if you fight back in those situations, you make the situation worse. thats not saying you deserve to die - how you do you equate those two things?

said it before in this thread - smart courses of action. dumb ones. choose.

http://www.mylocalcrime.com/#32.713618%2C%20-97.30832

holy shit. The neighborhood I grew up in lol. That's just the past 6 weeks.

Oddly no shootings

and lots of theft...

we have our own one of those

http://www.police.uk/crime/?q=Mancheste ... crimetypes

thats me there ^^^

thats Benchill up the road from me http://www.police.uk/crime/?q=Benchill, ... crimetypes

both are from February

and im not pooing myself about having to own a gun to protect myself lol

shit happens at the end of the day, if you're smart, less shit happens to you.

[flyingointment]

i meant you're a geek music producer mate, there's a reason you aint rollin deep with G's and instead you're sat at a computer for most of your days

this is what im talkin about with the badman attitude, you. are. not. a. badman.

What are you even talking about? I don't want a gun out of a desire to be a "badman". I wouldn't feel good about killing someone, even if I absolutely needed to. Is everyone who owns a gun automatically a wannabe thug of some sort?

The fact that you think about it in these retarded terms is indicative of your own misguided and immature approach to all this shit.

[noam]

i mentioned the badman thing because you think its 'bitch' to know when to lie down when in all likelihood, you ARE a bitch compared to the people who would make you lie down.

misguided and immature is thinking carrying a gun around means you're safe.

[bright maroon]

I think that by owning a gun - your increasing the chances of them stealing it from you
..way before you'd ever have a chance to stop them with it.


I really don't hear of people with guns having stopped multitudes of crimes happening to them.

Get a big ass dog if you're nervous like that.



I personally don't want that kind of nervous paranoia in my life.

[noam]

Get a big ass dog if you're nervous like that.

BINGO

[flyingointment]

i mentioned the badman thing because you think its 'bitch' to know when to lie down when in all likelihood, you ARE a bitch compared to the people who would make you lie down.

I did phrase that rather crudely but what I meant is that it's just a rather passive stance to adopt about all of this shit, and one that I simply cannot abide by. Never did I claim that I'm a thug or very strong or any of that, and neither of those notions have anything to do with why I think people should be able to own guns to keep in the house. I'm not happy about the fact that I live in the kind of place where something like a gun is a necessity. I was kidding about my mind being changed by looking at MyLocalCrime, but it IS kind of alarming to see all that shit laid out in front of you like that.

I don't see why you think pulling a trigger is some next level accomplishment that would require considerable fortitude or something, though. I guess I just don't think of it in terms of being "strong enough" to shoot someone. It doesn't take a "strong" person to do some shit like that, just someone who has nothing to lose. Just because I think I'd be emotionally ready to do what I need to in order to survive doesn't mean that I think that I'm a gangster or a "badman" or whatever you want to call it.

[noam]

fuck me mate

i just went back up and read one of your edited replies 'innate weaknesses'

LOL

Charlie Sheen eat your heart out

i keep having to repeat myself

its not about whats 'morally right' - again, repeating myself, i believe it is completely justified to defend yourself

what i dont think is that defending yourself is always the right or best course of action since more often than not that involves conflict with people are bigger and badder and 10x more desperate than yourself

like Bright Maroon said, if you're that intimidated by the world around you that you feel you need a gun in your house to be safe, get a big fuckin dog and train it well, no one will come near you if you have an Alsatian or Rottweiler plodding around your pad, and you cant shoot yourself in the foot with a dog either

oh and this:

I don't see why you think pulling a trigger is some next level accomplishment that would require considerable fortitude or something, though.

Just because I think I'd be emotionally ready .

The fact that you think about it in these retarded terms is indicative of your own misguided and immature approach to all this shit.

is the reason i think you're full of shit

you've talked yourself round in circles