Confused by Israel Situation

[dubfordessert]

jesus christ

what are you more interested in dfd?

i'm mainly interested in getting the point across that peace in israel and palestine cannot happen without negotiations on an EQUAL footing between the two groups and a cessation of israel's belligerent occupation and annexation of palestinian territory as well as the cessation of rocket fire and bombings from the other side, say something like this article http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... e-solution

arguing with me or being right?

can do both

[abelard]

eugh can't wait until noam the ultimate arbiter of SNH truth comes in here and gifts you plebs some of his supreme knnowledge and finally puts and end to your childish squables.

[Sexual_Chocolate]

@dfd

i actually no longer care.

its 1am & im tired

(ps its great that you are willing to fight so hard & long about someones opinion. on the internet. but yea, over it. )

[Terpit]

[Terpit]

[Terpit]

[cryptical]

eugh can't wait until noam the ultimate arbiter of SNH truth comes in here and gifts you plebs some of his supreme knnowledge and finally puts and end to your childish squables.

lmao

[particle-jim]

[garethom]

To be fair, that is gonna be a concern for people in Israel. Guy is probably one of those who thinks that nothing is worthy of being on the news because there are children being murdered in xyz.

[Genevieve]

whether any particular action in war is unjustified, and whoever "starts" a particular round of hostilities is largely irrelevant not necessarily in itself, but in respect of the more important question of who is the aggressor in a conflict

israel is occupying palestine illegally, it is settling land illegally, it blockades and subjects the people it is occupying to daily humiliation.

israel is the aggressor regardless of whether hamas rockets target civilians or not and regardless of when and how often hamas fires rockets. people always say look at the hamas charter - have a look at the likud charter. they will never recognise a state of palestine, and they will never stop settling the west bank.

That's oversimplification. The Israeli government and international lobbies and governments are agressors and Hamas are agressors. The people being agressed against are civilians from both sides. An Israeli who was simply born in that country with no say on it at all, a child especially, who gets blasted apart by a Hamas rocket is also a victim of agression.

And Hamas is EQUALLY responsible for Palestinian deaths as Israel is for provoking Israeli attacks that they KNOW will be much more powerful than theirs and will result in many more deaths on the Palestinian side than the Israel one.

And I know you aren't directly supporting any side here.

[pkay]

^^^^^^ point made numerous times now in this thread. Can't tell if dubfordesert is dumb, troll, dumbtroll, or just not reading the posts in this thread.

[mIrReN]

eugh can't wait until noam the ultimate arbiter of SNH truth comes in here and gifts you plebs some of his supreme knnowledge and finally puts and end to your childish squables.

how dare you call it childish!

[danoldboy]

Israel are laying the groundwork for a strike on Iran

[abelard]

fuck are they? how do you know? we should warn the president.

[dubfordessert]

@dfd

i actually no longer care.

its 1am & im tired

(ps its great that you are willing to fight so hard & long about someones opinion. on the internet. but yea, over it. )

ok mate.

would you have gone on about "caring" and fighting hard if i'd made 20 posts of gifs in some other thread... no.

i disagreed with you in a discussion, that doesn't take up a huge amount of my or your life. don't make it out to be more than it is.

[danoldboy]

fuck are they? how do you know? we should warn the president.

I don't know for sure, there's only a handful of people that would, but it's highly likely. Look into it

[dubfordessert]

whether any particular action in war is unjustified, and whoever "starts" a particular round of hostilities is largely irrelevant not necessarily in itself, but in respect of the more important question of who is the aggressor in a conflict

israel is occupying palestine illegally, it is settling land illegally, it blockades and subjects the people it is occupying to daily humiliation.

israel is the aggressor regardless of whether hamas rockets target civilians or not and regardless of when and how often hamas fires rockets. people always say look at the hamas charter - have a look at the likud charter. they will never recognise a state of palestine, and they will never stop settling the west bank.

That's oversimplification. The Israeli government and international lobbies and governments are agressors and Hamas are agressors. The people being agressed against are civilians from both sides. An Israeli who was simply born in that country with no say on it at all, a child especially, who gets blasted apart by a Hamas rocket is also a victim of agression.

And Hamas is EQUALLY responsible for Palestinian deaths as Israel is for provoking Israeli attacks that they KNOW will be much more powerful than theirs and will result in many more deaths on the Palestinian side than the Israel one.

And I know you aren't directly supporting any side here.

disagree for the reasons i've already outlined in this thread.

while hamas attacks against civilians are not justified they are not the side oppressing the other. israel controls what objects and people get in and out of gaza and the west bank, what roads palestinians can use, what they eat, their airspace, throttles their economy, takes their land and resources, etc, etc.

israeli attacks are attacks against a population they do all that to on a constant basis. to remove that from the context of hamas terrorism is to remove the defining element of the conflict

[garethom]

I wonder if Israel just laid down arms and said to Hamas "Ok, whatever..." would Israelis be as oppressed as Palestinians are now?

I read this when I was on holiday in the summer, such an interesting book. Basically Jews, Christians and Muslims taking it in turns to oppress each other.

[Genevieve]

whether any particular action in war is unjustified, and whoever "starts" a particular round of hostilities is largely irrelevant not necessarily in itself, but in respect of the more important question of who is the aggressor in a conflict

israel is occupying palestine illegally, it is settling land illegally, it blockades and subjects the people it is occupying to daily humiliation.

israel is the aggressor regardless of whether hamas rockets target civilians or not and regardless of when and how often hamas fires rockets. people always say look at the hamas charter - have a look at the likud charter. they will never recognise a state of palestine, and they will never stop settling the west bank.

That's oversimplification. The Israeli government and international lobbies and governments are agressors and Hamas are agressors. The people being agressed against are civilians from both sides. An Israeli who was simply born in that country with no say on it at all, a child especially, who gets blasted apart by a Hamas rocket is also a victim of agression.

And Hamas is EQUALLY responsible for Palestinian deaths as Israel is for provoking Israeli attacks that they KNOW will be much more powerful than theirs and will result in many more deaths on the Palestinian side than the Israel one.

And I know you aren't directly supporting any side here.

disagree for the reasons i've already outlined in this thread.

while hamas attacks against civilians are not justified they are not the side oppressing the other. israel controls what objects and people get in and out of gaza and the west bank, what roads palestinians can use, what they eat, their airspace, throttles their economy, takes their land and resources, etc, etc.

israeli attacks are attacks against a population they do all that to on a constant basis. to remove that from the context of hamas terrorism is to remove the defining element of the conflict

But what you're overlooking is that both Palestinian and Israeli citizens aren't on a 'side', they are the victims of the CONFLICT, a conflict that both sides are taking part of. Anti-zionist Israelis, who opposite Israel's regime, are not on the 'oppressing side' and Palestinian citizens are AS oppressed by Hamas as they are by Israel. Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians, they care about their ideology. So they keep shooting rockets to provoke Israel, knowing full well that Israel will kill thousands of Palestinians; they don't give a fuck. To them it's ideology over human life, which makes them as co-complicit in this situation as Israel.

Things are never as easy as 'they did it' in international conflicts. Humans like to think in those terms, this is why we watch movies with clearcut badguys and heroes. But reality is completely different.

[deadly_habit]

I'm just waiting for Obama to pledge US troops.
Hell we had troops stationed and waiting in Israrel not too long ago.

Hell the Arab League is backing Palestine, the US Israel. It's like the crusades all over again.
Also this just got posted. http://rt.com/news/morsi-gaza-israel-agression-160/