magma wrote:
Society will win if society believes in itself.
That's a very Disney ending.
We're at a very roman empire point in our existence where we believe we can mold consequences to our will and people see absolutely no problems with this. There's a certain amount of literal reaction that needs to occur to let natural consumerism occur. This fruit gives me the shits, i need to stop eating this fruit kind of reaction. But as modern humans we complicate things to a point of what is morally acceptable and what we 'deserve' and what is 'fair' so we've lost that ability to discern that doing things with bad reactions are best handled by simply not doing them.
you're saying dont get credit if you cant afford to pay it back and he's saying banks shouldn't be allowed to sell you credit you cant afford to pay back.
you two should both be piecing together some sort of link between these two idea's instead of circling any potential solutions by repeating yourselves in increasingly matter of fact ways over and over again
you're both literally describing two sides of the same coin
pkay wrote:We're at a very roman empire point in our existence
This sort of thing cracks me up. People are so quick to assume that they'll live during the end of their own civilisation - every generation says Western Civilisation is about to grind to a halt and spit us all out... it never happens. Civilisation is globalised... it would take a meteor, nuclear war or plague to stop us now. We've been "on course to end up like the Roman Empire" since before Guido Fawkes tried to blow up King James.
The jury's also pretty out on the fall of the Roman Empire. I don't know what you've read on the subject, but I'd recommend Peter Heather's book. A lot of people would posit that their eventual economic and emotional fall (lots of people just... gave up) was largely down to the empire getting bigger than its communication networks could cope with (far flung territories started ceding control to more local warlords and tribes, more local ones fought for or bought their independence) - this is definitely not something we have a problem with here as our conversation proves. Whatever caused it... we don't even have a proper timeline of events - comparisons to today's situations are almost always without any real foundation.
Romans also didn't have the temptation of 100% loans on depreciating static-chariots housing families of six either (people of that class were effectively slaves, afterall). When the Roman Empire suffered from a "Credit Crunch" it was caused by massive foreign invasion. They recovered from it, too. It wasn't economics alone that caused their demise, whatever it was.
Let's keep ourselves relevant...
Again, I'd love for everyone to wake up tomorrow and say "Right, I don't need a carrot or stick, I'm just gonna ACT RIGHT", but it won't happen. People smoke cigarettes, drive SUVs, cheat on the love of their life and eat saturated fats... people can't be trusted to think with their logical brains all the time. When it matters most, people must be shepherded into making the correct decisions through regulation.
I don't believe I'll live to see the annihilation of our existence as far as the western world goes, but I do think I'll live to see the financial collapse and beginning of the splintering of the US. But that's another discussion.
My Roman Empire comment was directed at the idea that our society is absolutely how it should be and that we need only use our power to sculpt things into an even more perfect society. The Romans, in all their glory, didn't even entertain the idea that their social, financial, and political structure was less than perfect. They only blamed certain factions within the Empire but never, ever, insult the glory of Rome. I don't believe our society is perfect. In fact, quite the opposite. I believe we consume blindly with faith that our government will protect us from ourselves.
To me relying on a government in that fashion is very very dangerous.... especially given the shortcomings that both your government and mine have exhibited recently.
pkay wrote:We're at a very roman empire point in our existence
This sort of thing cracks me up. People are so quick to assume that they'll live during the end of their own civilisation - every generation says Western Civilisation is about to grind to a halt and spit us all out... it never happens. Civilisation is globalised... it would take a meteor, nuclear war or plague to stop us now. We've been "on course to end up like the Roman Empire" since before Guido Fawkes tried to blow up King James.
The jury's also pretty out on the fall of the Roman Empire. I don't know what you've read on the subject, but I'd recommend Peter Heather's book. A lot of people would posit that their eventual economic and emotional fall (lots of people just... gave up) was largely down to the empire getting bigger than its communication networks could cope with (far flung territories started ceding control to more local warlords and tribes, more local ones fought for or bought their independence) - this is definitely not something we have a problem with here as our conversation proves. Whatever caused it... we don't even have a proper timeline of events - comparisons to today's situations are almost always without any real foundation.
Romans also didn't have the temptation of 100% loans on depreciating static-chariots housing families of six either (people of that class were effectively slaves, afterall). When the Roman Empire suffered from a "Credit Crunch" it was caused by massive foreign invasion. They recovered from it, too. It wasn't economics alone that caused their demise, whatever it was.
Let's keep ourselves relevant...
Again, I'd love for everyone to wake up tomorrow and say "Right, I don't need a carrot or stick, I'm just gonna ACT RIGHT", but it won't happen. People smoke cigarettes, drive SUVs, cheat on the love of their life and eat saturated fats... people can't be trusted to think with their logical brains all the time. When it matters most, people must be shepherded into making the correct decisions through regulation.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
remind bloomberg what the 1st amendment means
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
remind bloomberg what the 1st amendment means
That's kind of fox newsing the situation.... hysteria for hysteria's sake
It's so the area can be cleaned. Some of the pictures my friends from NYC have posted show it's pretty trashed right now and are beginning to impose on other new yorkers.
Everything I've heard is after the area is sorted they'll be let back in but are going to limit what they can bring back as they've destroyed parts of the park
“Protesters can remain in the park during Brookfield’s section-by-section clean-up and they will be able to return to the cleaned sections once work is completed tomorrow and can stay in the park 24/7 so long as they follow park rules,” said Marc La Vorgna, a spokesman for Mr. Bloomberg. “We will continue to defend and guarantee their free speech rights, but those rights do not include the ability to infringe on the rights of others, which is why the rules governing the park will be enforced.”
part of the struggle with protesting is doing so within the confines of the law. We'll see a lot about the protestors today and whether they're going to adapt their tactics or try and throw a tantrum.
You can't very well protest trying to get the government to enforce laws while fighting the government enforcing laws without looking like complete idiots.
Here's hoping we don't get any idiots trying to be hysterical martyrs and escalating the situation.
pkay wrote:
You can't very well protest trying to get the government to enforce laws while fighting the government enforcing laws without looking like complete idiots.
pkay wrote:
You can't very well protest trying to get the government to enforce laws while fighting the government enforcing laws without looking like complete idiots.
except in the case of the american revolution
thank god we didn't back down then
a revolution and a protest are two entirely different things.
we went over this during the uk riots. if you want revolution tear the government down, if you want change you work within the governing body.
The protestors have gained a huge amount of support this past week, and I understand how they are trying to stay out of partisan politics as much as possible, but once they reach their peak they're going to have to get political if they actually want anything done.
magma wrote:Yeah... will be heading down with a sore post-Bangface head straight after the rugby.
Kay got away just in time... getting kettled to fuck. I'm on a fucking comedown and I have no food or water. Luckily, we're kettled with an open Marks & Spencer. This isn't just protesting...
Meus equus tuo altior est
"Let me eat when I'm hungry, let me drink when I'm dry.
Give me dollars when I'm hard up, religion when I die."
nowaysj wrote:I wholeheartedly believe that Michael Brown's mother and father killed him.
The human megaphone is lame, but very effective. People here are nice. Some are nutters, but they're the vast minority. Lots of old people, families with kids, 'professional' looking types.
I managed to sneak through a police line whilst they were looking at a man dressed as Jesus and I'm just outside again now.. ninja protest bizniz!
Meus equus tuo altior est
"Let me eat when I'm hungry, let me drink when I'm dry.
Give me dollars when I'm hard up, religion when I die."
nowaysj wrote:I wholeheartedly believe that Michael Brown's mother and father killed him.
For some reason protesting/solidarity gets me really emotional? Like at ~2.40mins where the guy is shouting, I don't even understand but it still moves me a lot. I remember almost welling up when all the Libyan/Egyptian revolution stuff was on the news, I dunno it's just like a feeling of 'the people' uniting that gets to me I think. Weird cos i'm pretty stoic generally.
