The Secret Ninja Wrestling Thread

[wub]

And we finally got a Bray Wyatt promo on Raw;



Good to see they're not fucking with his character too much as he moves up from NXT

[3za]

Punk is coming back

do you guys see mexican wrestling??

Yep. I used to watch it all the time about 10 years ago, just catch the odd little bits nowadays.

WWE signed Samuray Del Sol a few days ago.

Good to see they're not fucking with his character too much as he moves up from NXT

He should keep that white mask he has been rocking the last few weeks, makes him much more creepy, and kind of reminds me of early Mankind.


Anybody else really looking forward to Slammiversary??? Card is absolutely sick

[FuDuzn]

Was hoping to get free tickets to Raw tonight. I live just outside Hartford, CT and my brother works for XL(who sponsors the arena) and gets tickets to most events that are held there. Unfortunately they have cut back a bit on the amount of freebies he gets and they were all snatched up.

I am glad that the crowd is fairly lively though, Hartford crowds are generally pretty smarky.

Pre Edit: On cue a 'Lets go Barrett' chant starts during his match with The Miz. Good stuff.

Pre Pre Edit: Johnny Curtis is from New England so nice that he is a getting a good reaction as well.

[wub]

Bob Holly's book - [link removed]

Well worth a read;

1) Holly was a jobber for pretty much his entire 15 years with the company, but he does not look for sympathy. He tells us often that he didn't mind putting people over, he didn't mind being a "jobber." The way he saw it, it was how he earned his bread. He didn't get obsessed about winning a belt in a "fake sport." You hold a belt in WWE, but you didn't win that: a writer gave it you. It's a humble position to take, and I respect Holly for it. Mostly, I'm glad he didn't whine throughout the whole book about not becoming a star.

2) Still, Holly does say the company could have used him more. They had opportunities. One was the broken neck angle against Lesnar in 2004. Holly was coming back with potential. He says he didn't expect to win the title from Brock Lesnar, but he hoped that he would come off looking strong. Then, he could be an upper mid-card guy who they could use to put over some young studs and make money. Didn't happen though. He lost to Lesnar and then faded away into nothing.

3) He says they had another opportunity when they created ECW. The new brand needed some star-power and talent (all they had was RVD), and Holly felt he could have been useful. Once again, nothing happened. He was used only to put over people.

4)He says another opportunity was when he had a match with RVD (He calls it the best of his career) where he cut his back in a table spot. The crowd popped for Holly after he lost, but the WWE officials didn't take that as any sign. Nothing happened.

5) He says (again) another opportunity arose when he took Cody Rhodes as his mentor. Holly says a lot of good things about Rhodes and was pleased to work with him. When he and Rhodes tagged up, the crowd gave Rhodes no reaction but always gave Holly pops. With the right angle, they could capitalize on this and help the young Rhodes get over on his own. Again ... nothing happened.

6) He goes in depth on the politics, which made some entertaining stories. He starts with the Clique. When he was new, Shawn Michaels used to steal his lunch in the canteen. Holly didn't know. He used to show up in the canteen and find out his lunch was gone. So he consults with Rick Martel and Randy Savage (his friends), and Savage says he saw Michaels messing with it. So Holly one day went into the Clique's locker room and in front of Hall, Nash, and X-Pac, told Michaels, "Don't F*** with my food ever again." Michaels never did ever again. In 2002, he would talk to Shawn about this, and Shawn said, "I don't remember that all. I don't remember anything from the 1990s. I was so F***d up."

7) One time, Hall and Nash were sitting backstage teasing everyone who was walking by. When Holly walked by once, they said some stuff and Holly got mad. He said he "looked Nash dead in the eye and drew and X on his chin. And said, 'That's where I'm going to hit you.'" Nash just gave him a look like "what am I supposed to do now?" After that, the Clique never messed with Bob Holly.

8 ) He hardly wrestled in 1997, but he was backstage a lot in case they needed someone last minute for a dark match or something. He was there when the Montreal Screwjob occurred. When it happened, he and the boys were watching on the monitor, and everyone was confused as hell. He saw Michaels come out the curtain and giving a Oscar worthy performance, cursing and saying, "What the hell just happened?" like he didn't know.

9) He gives his personal thoughts on the screwjob: If he was in Vince's shoes, he would have done the same thing. Vince couldn't risk Bret showing up on Nitro with the belt, he says. Plus, it's the duty of a wrestler to go out losing. The company made you a star, and when you're leaving you've gotta give back to fill in the void that your absence creates. Holly says Bret's argument that he would've put over anyone but Shawn in any place but Canada is BS. He says that's just something Bret says to save face.

10) He praises Shawn Michaels a lot despite the politicking; he calls HBK the greatest in-ring performer of all-time. In the 1990s, he would see Shawn getting messed up in the late nights but then show up the next day and give a 5-star match. It was incredible.

11) On Bret, he says he respected him as a worker but they never got close or had significant interaction. Bret wasn't involved in burying people like the Clique were. Bret looked out for Davey Boy and Owen, but he never hurt anyone's career.

12) Holly said Sid, who traveled with him sometimes, was a victim of the Clique. Sid was a below-average worker but he had the look and charisma to be a star. He was getting good reactions from the crowd too. But the Clique - especially Nash, being a big-guy himself - worried that Sid would replace them. Only Bret and Undertaker survived the Clique. In almost all their shows, Hall, Nash, X-Pac, and Michaels got the big matches and got the big $$$$.

13) Holly says only positive things about Vince. He gives him a mention at the end, in the Acknowledgement section, saying he appreciated the opportunity Vince gave him.

14) None of the big stars can fight in real-life. Cena, HHH, Batista, and Austin were all tough-guys on camera but tame in real-life. The real fighters, the ones who could really open a can of whoop ass, were JBL, Farooq, Shamrock, Angle, Jericho, Benoit, and Blackman (especially Blackman. He says Blackman had the ability to kill anyone on the roster).

15) In wrestling, the custom is that when someone puts you over, the first thing you do when you get backstage is tell them thanks. It's these people who make you look good and allow you to earn $$$$. When Ken Kennedy first arrived, Holly had to put him over (as he did for everyone). When Kennedy got backstage, he never said thanks or anything. Holly picked up Kennedy's bags and threw it in the hallway, telling Kennedy "You don't change in this locker-room ever again until I tell you so." Later, he and Kennedy would become friends after they reconciled.

16) As a jobber in NWA, he wrestled Ric Flair, who at the time was a major star. Despite being a jobber, Holly got a 10 minute match with Flair, even getting some offense in. At the end, Flair hardly acknowledged Holly. He never shook his hand, he never thanks. At the time, Holly didn't think anything, but later as he became a vet, he realized that Flair was wrong. Whenever you win a match, you always go to the person who put you over and tell them thank you. Holly always made it a point to do so. Flair should've known better, he thinks.

17) In 2002, he would meet Flair again, and Flair wouldn't remember the above ^^^^. Holly understood though. Flair wrestled about a billion matches since then.

18) He disses Flair for continuing to wrestle today. He mentions the big 2008 send-off and how Flair ruined it by wrestling for TNA.

19) He goes really hard on Triple H, calling him a politician who buries anyone he sees as a threat.

20) He is not a fan of woman wrestling. He says McCool, Gail Kim, and a few others were good wrestlers, but the majority were not. Trish, Lita, and others were terrible. He says it's telling how the Women's division didn't take off until Sable, a hottie, won the Woman's Title. When un-attractive women help the belt before her, nobody cared.

21) Wrestlers do not make big $$$$ unless you're on the top (Austin, HHH, Cena, Undertaker, etc). Holly barely managed to get by sometimes. You get paid $100,000, but it doesn't last when you deduct for taxes, car rentals, food, hotels, and other expenses. Because you travel so much that it all adds up. You could get as much spending $ as a WWE wrestler by working a regular job, and you get to sleep at home each night, without worry of injuries.

22) Holly managed to save up for retirement only because he was around the Attitude Era. He got paid $4,500 just for walking down the ramp with Crash Holly. When he fought Lesnar at the Royal Rumble, he got less than that. In one year during the Attitude Era, he earned $400,000: a number he never got close to ever again. He can't imagine how the mid-carders today are getting by with their meager salaries.

23) If MMA was big at the time, Holly would have went into MMA without hesitation. It's too late for him now, obviously. But he wishes it weren't.

24) He was close friends with Chris Benoit. He even spoke to Benoit the same day he committed the murder-suicide. He says nothing but good things about Benoit: Benoit was friendly to everyone, and he loved his family to death. Holly believes Benoit was drunk that ill-fated night.

25) He says DDP used to have his matches written out in paper. He used to have 4-8 pages outlining the match, writing things like, "We circle each out clockwise" or "We exchange punches and grimace in pain."

26) Holly proudly admits using steroids. He says WWE's Wellness Policy is a joke. They decide who to suspend, which is why Batista, HHH, and Cena never got tested despite not losing size. Holly got suspended once, he says, because they make an example for others. Some wrestlers, like Chris Masters and Rob Conway, lost a ton of weight once the wellness policy went into effect, which hurt their careers a lot.

27) He was contacted by WCW in 2000, and they offered him double his salary. He refused out of loyalty to WWE.

28) He wishes WWE gave him more of a commendation when he was let go. After all, he gave a lot to the company, and he feels it only right that they acknowledge this. He doesn't mean the Hall of Fame, of course. He calls the WWE Hall of Fame a joke when guys like Drew Carey are in it.

29) The book is very well written.

30) Wrestlemania X, he was supposed to be in a 10-man tag match. But then Razor and Michaels went over their time limit, ignoring the time-keeper (who yelled in the referee's earpiece). WWE had to no choice but to cancel the tag match. When Michaels and Razor went backstage, Randy Savage chewed them out for going so long, telling them they robbed 10 guys of a Wrestlemania payday and TV time.

No. 14 is just fucking jokes, love the idea that Blackman was the real killer on the roster

[magma]

I've got Bret Hart's book on the go at the moment as light relief while I'm reading about prison camps in North Korea... entertaining stories, but about three times as much whining per page as any grown man should allow himself.

If Holly (or his ghostwriter) can actually write that might actually turn into a fun read.

[3za]

The card for Payback is shit, but this is what i'm going with...

Sheamus
Cena
Punk
Curtis Axel
The Shield
Ambrose
AJ
Ziggler

I hope CM Punk (best in the world) shows up, and has a new theme tune. That "cult of personality" song is one of the worst rasslin songs ever, "this fire burns" was perfect.



Also hope Chikara comes back soon

[FuDuzn]

I think it is a decent card, nothing terrible about it and the Punk/Jericho match could be fantastic. Speaking of which, I think there is more than meets the eye with this match. Punk will show since it is being advertised heavily(and a bait and switch would generate the wrong kind of heat for the wwe), but there will probably be some crazy swerves in this one.

Also, I love his music. Especially the way it starts

[FuDuzn]

Solid IC title match to start off Payback, very creative ending as well.

Also, Punk has been spotted backstage......at the very least he is showing.

[wub]

Booking pretty much went the way I was expecting, except for Ziggler dropping back to Del Rio??!?! Makes no sense IMO...they spend the best part of the year hyping him with the briefcase, then he finallly wins, gets a concussion (not his or their fault, granted) then drops at his first proper title defence? Madness.

[FuDuzn]

I kind of disagree. It was basically a double turn similar to Bret Hart/Stone Cold at wrestlemania 13. Adds a bit more intrigue to the whc and give Ziggy a legit chip on his shoulder. Long term wise it makes sense, especially since Del Rio was so not over as a face.

[3za]

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho: Was a very good match, it took a little while to get going, they shouldn't of bothered with the first 5 mins of the match. They could of gave that time to Punk to cut a little promo before the match, because we ain't heard from him in a long time. Also i would of loved it if when Punk had Jericho up for the second GTS, that he F5's his arse. Then after getting the win Brock Lesners music hits, he comes down, Paul Heyman gets in between him, and Punk. Then Lesner shoves Heyman out the way, F5's Punk, and then leaves. Next night on Raw Punk can cut a promo asking Heyman why Lesner did that, and has he spoken with Lesner. Then Punk can keep asking every now, and again if Heyman has heard from Lesner, and he can say, "no". Few months later Lesner shows up, and destroies Punk again, in a no dq type match for the title against Cena at Summerslam.

Punk vs Lesner @ Wrestlemania

Ok, I got a little carried away...

AJ vs Kaitlyn: Gets a honorable mention. For being an engaging Divas match from start to finnish, and being one of the best women wrestling matchs in WWE's recent history. Plus AJ would get smashed

Rest of the card: was ok.

The predictable outcomes of the matchs (apart from that one...), didn't stop it from being one of the best recent WWE PPV's. I would give it 7/10, would be an 8, if the tag/intercontinental/u.s title matchs weren't soo muh.

[3za]

BROCK LESNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FuDuzn]

Great Raw tonight!

It almost feels like the WWE has forgotten about the last 6 months or so and is starting fresh once again, and that is a very good thing.

I really like the direction they are going in.

And that Mark Henry segment, brilliant.

/markingout

[3za]

Best Raw in ages

[FuDuzn]

It was one of those Raw's where everytime I was hoping something would happen in a segment, it did.

Punk confroting Del Rio when he said he was the best, Vince shaking Ambrose's hand, Kaitlyn nip slip, Ziggy with a sneak attack on Del Rio looking strong, Cesaro finally getting a push, Mark Henry interrupting AND swerving Cena.........and of course, BROCK LESSSSNARR!! coming back to set up a feud with Punk.

Top to bottom my mark out boner is at full staff.

[magma]

I kind of disagree. It was basically a double turn similar to Bret Hart/Stone Cold at wrestlemania 13. Adds a bit more intrigue to the whc and give Ziggy a legit chip on his shoulder. Long term wise it makes sense, especially since Del Rio was so not over as a face.

Yep, this. They were trying to use the predictably heel-leaning crowd and Ziggy's 'head injury' to swap them over. Not seen Raw, but I reckon Ziggler as a tweener could work well. A MITB title run isn't a real title run anyway... he'll get it back on his rematch clause and have the 'proper' run he deserves after building some Stone Cold "HE JUST WON'T QUIT" kudos.

Glad Del Rio seems to be back on the turn. They should move him back towards the Mexican Ted DiBiase... he hasn't got nearly enough charisma to be a nice guy.

Not often I say this, but I really enjoyed the Divas match.

[wub]

Not often I say this, but I really enjoyed the Divas match.

They're still way behind TNA though in that aspect.

[3za]

Not often I say this, but I really enjoyed the Divas match.

They're still way behind TNA though in that aspect.

The last Knockout standing match at Slammiversary was awesome, but for the most part TNA's women division is just as bad as WWE's. They both need to sign some freaking female luchadores.

[magma]

I don't really get why they let Beth Phoenix wear herself out without getting a proper run and for apparently doing the same with Natty Neidhart... AJ's the only personality there and NONE of the others can wrestle well enough to not have one.

Still, did anyone else Mark out for Henry? Phwoar.

[3za]

Still, did anyone else Mark out for Henry? Phwoar.

I was dubious about his retirement as soon as they announced it, and as soon as he told Cena to stay, I know he was going to WSS that bitch. Didn't stop it form being a great moment/promo. Lets just hope Henry gets the strap...



I got a funny feeling that Bo Dallas is going to be the next Cena.


Just look at that tnuc lol.
I can't wait till 5/10 years time, when all the smarks, are chanting, "Dallas sucks!!!", and they all want real wrestlers like Cena