Visualizing Ten Dimensions (String Theory)

[kay]

flatland is also a full length animated feature

Haha! Never seen that!

[alien pimp]

imagine fractal animations with an infinite number of frames tending to zero as duratio
this is what i see time like, and it's no film, each frame once gone from the screen is gone forever, we are only what's shown on the screen
would be interesting to get into how the brain deals with time as well...

That's an interesting take, I see where you're coming from. But a measure of some sort still separates 1 frame from another, otherwise there wouldn't be any differentiating 1 frame from another, they would all be superimposed. And it isn't a spatial measurement. So perhaps it isn't time, but there is something there. At least in the way our brains decide to perceive things anyway. Reality could be a different can of worms.

infinite x 0 = 0
X>0, infinite x X = infinite
This is based on number infinities. There are other types of infinities. Check out The Infinite Book if you're interested in that area of maths.

you've seen fractals on your puter, what frames to be superimposed?? they evolve one from another. there's no measure, no god, no santa, get used to that!
there's not even the need to differentiate the frames, who needs that? some creatures on earth that can't explain shit? universe wasn't made for us to count its frames. we're just filling gaps with bullshit as always

yeah, i know they are messing with the infinites too, but skip that part and put the classic infinite shit in the frame scenario, isn't it fun?
also i don't care how the brain perceives it other than how it is

[parson]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0972374/

[kay]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0972374/

Cool!

[kay]

you've seen fractals on your puter, what frames to be superimposed?? they evolve one from another. there's no measure, no god, no santa, get used to that!

Yeh've missed my point slightly.

[parson]

god is fractal duh

[parson]

fractality is about infinite nondestructive compression/expansion

psychedelics expand consciousness fractally. non-destructive compression/expansion. like the perfect hug.

now come on everybody hop on the one
it's the sounds of the two
it's the third eye vision
five side dimension
the eighth light is gonna shine bright tonight

[alien pimp]

you've seen fractals on your puter, what frames to be superimposed?? they evolve one from another. there's no measure, no god, no santa, get used to that!

Yeh've missed my point slightly.

can be ...
elaborate pls!

[djake]

string threory is badman!

its proper head fuck thou.

[hugh]

This thread had the potential to be interesting if it wasn't for the 10 pages of complete shit.
Time exists alien pimp, it's one of the few things we can prove. It has been shown to work in a constant way with constant effects. Even if everything we are perceiving is in fact "not real", we are still perceiving it. All of us - maybe some in a different way to due psychological reasons, but the real and physical effect of time is always a constant, measureable thing. Just because we don't understand how the future works it doesn't mean we aren't part of a present, moving towards a future.
The chaos of time is of course very interesting, we can never say for sure what will happen in the next quantifiable amount of time, or where it will lead us.
If you don't believe in time, then you must believe you are some kind of imagination floating in a jar or something. Either way it doesn't matter, you aren't experiencing life in a jar, you are experiencing just as everyone else is.
I find it's usually only the most narcissistic self involved people that believe in these jar theories. Step outside and you see the world is very real, the joy, the pain, the suffering. Its all real mate, get used to it and start living your life and enjoying it instead of wasting your time arguing a moot point with random strangers on the internet who will never agree with you anyway.

so many words and nobody can point where does exist the past when it's not existing here anymore, so i can draw my fucking points

i mean if time exists, past exists, future exists... let's admit they have no spatial dimensions attached like the present (which's a frame that tends to 0 as duratio), but whatever other dimensions attached, how do they exists and what proves that they do?

and gravity affects maybe just our perception of time and some measurements tools, but how can gravity affect the past if the past doesn't exist anymore here (by definition)

also, what happens with my spatial dimensions when i become past, if the past can't be located in space?

Sorry I haven't been reading since this response, but you need to wrap your head around the idea of gravity and what makes it so special. If the graviton can be thought of a as a theoretical particle that has infinite range (which gravity does), then it must not be affect by time but be able to pass through time. Therefore you need to sort of think of our universe sandwhiched between universes present and past - think of them as frames in a film roll. The graviton is not attached to our universe by conventional rules and so can leak through the past and the future, and is infact most probably like an electron in the sense that it cannot be quantifiably determined where it is at any one time, but is in fact everywhere at once exisiting as a cloud. Obviously this can't be proved as we don't have the technology to do so, but it is our best guess at the moment.
What science can prove is the existence of things we perceive. Gravity has proven to have both the properties of infinite range and to be totally intertwined with space and time. How exactly it does this and whether it is only gravity by itself that is responsible is something we cannot prove.
The problem you just seem to be having is with visualising and comprehending how this theory works - Try and not to use the idea of time going from point a to point b - it cannot do that without distorting space and time unless it is massless. We cannot experience this even if it was happening right infront of our very eyes though, as we are only able to perceive 4 dimensions. At the end of the day these are all just ways of trying to explain complex mathematics - I just wonder if the current maths we hold in our universe will actually be able to ever work in the 5th.

[alien pimp]

This thread had the potential to be interesting if it wasn't for the 10 pages of complete shit.
Time exists alien pimp, it's one of the few things we can prove. It has been shown to work in a constant way with constant effects. Even if everything we are perceiving is in fact "not real", we are still perceiving it. All of us - maybe some in a different way to due psychological reasons, but the real and physical effect of time is always a constant, measureable thing. Just because we don't understand how the future works it doesn't mean we aren't part of a present, moving towards a future.
The chaos of time is of course very interesting, we can never say for sure what will happen in the next quantifiable amount of time, or where it will lead us.
If you don't believe in time, then you must believe you are some kind of imagination floating in a jar or something. Either way it doesn't matter, you aren't experiencing life in a jar, you are experiencing just as everyone else is.
I find it's usually only the most narcissistic self involved people that believe in these jar theories. Step outside and you see the world is very real, the joy, the pain, the suffering. Its all real mate, get used to it and start living your life and enjoying it instead of wasting your time arguing a moot point with random strangers on the internet who will never agree with you anyway.

so many words and nobody can point where does exist the past when it's not existing here anymore, so i can draw my fucking points

i mean if time exists, past exists, future exists... let's admit they have no spatial dimensions attached like the present (which's a frame that tends to 0 as duratio), but whatever other dimensions attached, how do they exists and what proves that they do?

and gravity affects maybe just our perception of time and some measurements tools, but how can gravity affect the past if the past doesn't exist anymore here (by definition)

also, what happens with my spatial dimensions when i become past, if the past can't be located in space?

Sorry I haven't been reading since this response, but you need to wrap your head around the idea of gravity and what makes it so special. If the graviton can be thought of a as a theoretical particle that has infinite range (which gravity does), then it must not be affect by time but be able to pass through time. Therefore you need to sort of think of our universe sandwhiched between universes present and past - think of them as frames in a film roll. The graviton is not attached to our universe by conventional rules and so can leak through the past and the future, and is infact most probably like an electron in the sense that it cannot be quantifiably determined where it is at any one time, but is in fact everywhere at once exisiting as a cloud. Obviously this can't be proved as we don't have the technology to do so, but it is our best guess at the moment.
What science can prove is the existence of things we perceive. Gravity has proven to have both the properties of infinite range and to be totally intertwined with space and time. How exactly it does this and whether it is only gravity by itself that is responsible is something we cannot prove.
The problem you just seem to be having is with visualising and comprehending how this theory works - Try and not to use the idea of time going from point a to point b - it cannot do that without distorting space and time unless it is massless. We cannot experience this even if it was happening right infront of our very eyes though, as we are only able to perceive 4 dimensions. At the end of the day these are all just ways of trying to explain complex mathematics - I just wonder if the current maths we hold in our universe will actually be able to ever work in the 5th.

many mistakes and presumptions, most of them answered here already man
other parts answer statements i've never made, like me thinking time as A to B
and it kinda develops on the assumption time exists
no offence hugh, but i'm tired with posts discovering hot water, i understand it's a long thread, but it's not my fault

[collige]

[hugh]

This thread had the potential to be interesting if it wasn't for the 10 pages of complete shit.
Time exists alien pimp, it's one of the few things we can prove. It has been shown to work in a constant way with constant effects. Even if everything we are perceiving is in fact "not real", we are still perceiving it. All of us - maybe some in a different way to due psychological reasons, but the real and physical effect of time is always a constant, measureable thing. Just because we don't understand how the future works it doesn't mean we aren't part of a present, moving towards a future.
The chaos of time is of course very interesting, we can never say for sure what will happen in the next quantifiable amount of time, or where it will lead us.
If you don't believe in time, then you must believe you are some kind of imagination floating in a jar or something. Either way it doesn't matter, you aren't experiencing life in a jar, you are experiencing just as everyone else is.
I find it's usually only the most narcissistic self involved people that believe in these jar theories. Step outside and you see the world is very real, the joy, the pain, the suffering. Its all real mate, get used to it and start living your life and enjoying it instead of wasting your time arguing a moot point with random strangers on the internet who will never agree with you anyway.

so many words and nobody can point where does exist the past when it's not existing here anymore, so i can draw my fucking points

i mean if time exists, past exists, future exists... let's admit they have no spatial dimensions attached like the present (which's a frame that tends to 0 as duratio), but whatever other dimensions attached, how do they exists and what proves that they do?

and gravity affects maybe just our perception of time and some measurements tools, but how can gravity affect the past if the past doesn't exist anymore here (by definition)

also, what happens with my spatial dimensions when i become past, if the past can't be located in space?

Sorry I haven't been reading since this response, but you need to wrap your head around the idea of gravity and what makes it so special. If the graviton can be thought of a as a theoretical particle that has infinite range (which gravity does), then it must not be affect by time but be able to pass through time. Therefore you need to sort of think of our universe sandwhiched between universes present and past - think of them as frames in a film roll. The graviton is not attached to our universe by conventional rules and so can leak through the past and the future, and is infact most probably like an electron in the sense that it cannot be quantifiably determined where it is at any one time, but is in fact everywhere at once exisiting as a cloud. Obviously this can't be proved as we don't have the technology to do so, but it is our best guess at the moment.
What science can prove is the existence of things we perceive. Gravity has proven to have both the properties of infinite range and to be totally intertwined with space and time. How exactly it does this and whether it is only gravity by itself that is responsible is something we cannot prove.
The problem you just seem to be having is with visualising and comprehending how this theory works - Try and not to use the idea of time going from point a to point b - it cannot do that without distorting space and time unless it is massless. We cannot experience this even if it was happening right infront of our very eyes though, as we are only able to perceive 4 dimensions. At the end of the day these are all just ways of trying to explain complex mathematics - I just wonder if the current maths we hold in our universe will actually be able to ever work in the 5th.

many mistakes and presumptions, most of them answered here already man
other parts answer statements i've never made, like me thinking time as A to B
and it kinda develops on the assumption time exists
no offence hugh, but i'm tired with posts discovering hot water, i understand it's a long thread, but it's not my fault

well I didn't realise we were having a philosophy debate.
If you are debating the existence of time you are also debating the existence of science as whole, the existence of perception.
Ok fair enough, but we can only try and give value to those things that we interact with.
I see noone here is actually talking about multidimensions at all and this whole topic has been derailed into an existence of perception debate. Science has no time for this bullshit.

[alien pimp]

If you are debating the existence of time you are also debating the existence of science as whole, the existence of perception.

huh?
where did that come from?

[lloydnoise]

hello

an interesting breakthrough in E8 and such -

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 232345.htm

Go E8!

[alien pimp]

hello

an interesting breakthrough in E8 and such -

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 232345.htm

Go E8!

haha, that coldea guy is romanian too, nice

[lloydnoise]

hello

an interesting breakthrough in E8 and such -

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 232345.htm

Go E8!

haha, that coldea guy is romanian too, nice

They are the most fractal of peoples

[alien pimp]

[kay]

you've seen fractals on your puter, what frames to be superimposed?? they evolve one from another. there's no measure, no god, no santa, get used to that!

Yeh've missed my point slightly.

can be ...
elaborate pls!

Lets see...will try to explain differently. Take the frames of the fractals that you see on your computer. 1 frame is different from the next. They are different in shape, size, colours, etc. But, they are also different in sequence. The fact that we see two frames at separate instances implies that there is something separating them. However, their location is apparently the same. Do these two patterns occur simultaneously? No. Each occurs in its own instance. What separates these two instances? Time.

Note that this explanation only describes time as a non-spatial measurement. It doesn't care whether there is a past, present or future. Time here is just a concept to differentiate between one set of occurences and another.

(I tried in my previous explanation to avoid all terms that could reference back to the concept of time. But I'm tired and can't think of any more ways to skirt the use of time-related words to describe time)

If you are debating the existence of time you are also debating the existence of science as whole, the existence of perception.

huh?
where did that come from?

I brought up the debating the existence of science as a whole bit several pages back. It would certainly call evolution into question.

an interesting breakthrough in E8 and such -

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 232345.htm

Go E8!

Cool, thanks!

[alien pimp]

why would time be the answer???
obviously what separates the quality of being existent or not: nothing else can separate better present frames (existing) and future frames (not existing yet) or past frames (not existing anymore)