Reasons why a UKIP vote is a good vote

[Forum]

what sort of pagan actually reports posts

3hunna

[m8son666]

ma boi

[magma]

The thing is with forums they all sing from the same songsheet; when you get someone with a different opinion to them then they follow each other like sheep and it's sad.

This is such a cop out. You've been provided with endless statistics and examples to *prove* why all your prejudices are false in the real world, yet you continue to beat the same hollow drum about work shy scroungers with nothing to back up your own points.

There's only so long that people are going to be patient when you approach debate like that (turns out it's around 14 pages in this instance)... you've essentially shown zero respect to the effort that people have put in to reply to your points in calm and reasonable manners (in fact, you haven't even bothered to acknowledge the existence of a lot of them) so now you're starting to get a few less tactful responses. I'm afraid you've royally showed your ass on this thread... you can't run from that.

[jaydot]

Yeah but you're being nasty, mod or no mod there's no need for it?

You were the first one to call me a tnuc in this thread if you care to look back.

[/quote]

I said you were being a tnuc I didn't directly call you a tnuc, and only because you made a comment about my "meds"

[magma]

Since when has the national dish been Tikka Masala? I don't think so

It's been fairly accepted as such for most of my adult life... here's the foreign secretary talking about it in 2001:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/a ... shidentity

Chicken Tikka Massala is now a true British national dish, not only because it is the most popular, but because it is a perfect illustration of the way Britain absorbs and adapts external influences. Chicken Tikka is an Indian dish. The Massala sauce was added to satisfy the desire of British people to have their meat served in gravy.

Here's Ask.com answering "What is the national dish in England?"

Chicken Tikka Masala is thought to be the national dish of England. It is prepared using skinless chicken breasts, ginger, garlic, coriander, chilli powder, tomato puree, red onions and other individually preferred ingredients. Other popular dishes are roast beef as well as fish and chips.

Here's a Scot trying to claim it for Scotland:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/goodliving/a ... 49144.html

"We thought we'd better cook the chicken with some sauce. So from here we cooked chicken tikka with the sauce that contains yogurt, cream, spices.

"It's a dish prepared according to our customers' taste. Usually they don't take hot curry; that's why we cook it with yogurt and cream."

Even the Daily Mail admit that it's the most popular dish, but may be under threat from Chinese stir fries:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... r-fry.html

Asian food has become increasingly popular in the UK and is now a part of the nation’s staple diet as families opt for international cuisine over British dishes three out of seven nights of the week.
Nine out of ten of Brits' favourite international meals are Asian.

We've even exported it to India:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/503680.stm

As a stunning trade coup it is as impressive as sending ice cubes to Iceland - the UK's favourite curry is being exported to India and Bangladesh.
A firm favourite of Britain's ever-increasing band of curry lovers, chicken tikka masala is nonetheless an unknown quantity in authentic Indian cuisine.

It was created to cater for the delicate British palate - and now the demands of UK tourists have led hotels in Bombay and Dhaka to put the dish on their menus.

And there are also reports that the balti - which is thought to originate in Birmingham - is also starting to appear on the sub-continent.

Feel free to ignore and say "LOL, no it's not" as per your usual MO of course.

[m8son666]

That's jokes i thought the national dish would be a pie or summin

[DJoe]

lol thats where your wrong jayot. most of the country isn't thinking it. also you've been bombarded with statistics showing that immigrants arent a drain on the nhs, yet you still say they are. how many times do you have to be shown a stat saying your wrong before you accept you are wrong.

dont contribute culturally yet our national dish is a tika fucking masala.
have you ever had a kebab after a night out?
everything in this country thats been of any relevance culturally over the last 30 years is due to immigration.

name one english bit of culture that your actually interested in

Since when has the national dish been Tikka Masala? I don't think so

And I'm obv. talking about the new generation of immigrants so having a kebab is neither here nor there.

Most of the working classes are thinking it. They're sick of blue collar jobs being monopolised by immigrants and they're sick of social housing being taken by immigrants. Just because the country is largely middle-class and isn't affected by these issues doesn't mean they're not there,

'In 2001, British foreign secretary Robin Cook declared that "Chicken Tikka Massala is now a true British national dish, not only because it is the most popular, but because it is a perfect illustration of the way Britain absorbs and adapts external influences." He went on to explain that "Chicken Tikka is an Indian dish. The Massala sauce was added to satisfy the desire of British people to have their meat served in gravy."'

how can you claim most of the working class is thinking it. what evidence do you have. what you really mean is 'most of my mates think it'.
this country isnt mostly middle class anyway.

name one bit english culture that you are involved with or that is relevant today that hasn't been contributed to by immigrants

your arguments were used on the polish before the romanians and bulgarians, indians and pakistanis before them, Caribbeans before them and even jews earlier.

same tired xenophobic logic

[particle-jim]

Jay what's your opinion on emigrants?

[jaydot]

No matter how much people post it boils down to the same arguments' the cultural and economic impacts of migrants on the UK


-I've already said they make you feel alien in your own country and only mix within their own communties

-I've already said that they take blue collar jobs at the expense of blue-collar British workers ie 16-24 people fresh out of school-unmployment being so high amongst that peer group and those with little skills/qualifications

-I've already said they're a strain on the benefits system and 80% of Eastern Europeans earn minimum wage so don't contribtue much to the economy financially but take up public services

-I've already said that they take up social housing and the solution was "ok let's build new houses" at a cost to the taxpayer and environment

-I've not really said it there's an undeniable ammount of foreign criminals, mainly illegals that can commit their crimes surreptitiously/without easy capture

-I've already said they take up university and school places at the expense of Britons

What more needs to be said?

[particle-jim]

-I've already said they make you feel alien in your own country and only mix within their own communties

this isn't true, I don't feel like an alien in my country and I work in one of the more multicultural areas of London, if they make you personally feel like an alien then that's completely on you and maybe you should take a look at your own insecurities

Deptford High Street there is a Halal butchers and all the Asian guys in there are constantly blasting reggae really loud, if that's not a perfect example of different ethnicity mixing I don't know what is

Stop talking out your arse Jay

[magma]

-I've already said they make you feel alien in your own country and only mix within their own communties

So all the examples we've given you of integration, including the fact that two of my best friends married Polish girls and at least one of the members in this very community goes out with a Polish girl (who's also a member of this community) mean nothing? I've honestly never met anyone who wasn't at least a borderline racist that has ever complained about feeling "alien" anywhere.

-I've already said that they take blue collar jobs at the expense of blue-collar British workers ie 16-24 people fresh out of school-unmployment being so high amongst that peer group

So they take the most labour intensive and lowest paid jobs yet they're scroungers?

-I've already said they're a strain on the benefits system and 80% of Eastern Europeans earn minimum wage so don't contribtue much to the economy financially but take up public services

Incredibly debatable.

-I've already said that they take up social housing and the solution was "ok let's build new houses" at a cost to the taxpayer and environment

You know that building houses creates jobs and that whether they're built for social housing or any other reason, they create profit, right? House building doesn't just create houses for people to live in, it energises the building sector leading to manifold improvements. New communities require businesses to support them, new schools, new doctors, new supermarkets... all create jobs. Expansion is a good thing.

-I've already said they take up university and school places at the expense of Britons

Show me the British 4 year old that can't get into a school please. This sort of thing is very easy to say, incredibly difficult to back up. Agent and m8son got into Uni easily enough; it can't be that hard.

What more needs to be said?

"I'm a filthy racist and I decided before I posted this thread that I wouldn't be swayed by such things as 'facts' or 'logic' because everybody knows reality has a liberal bias"?

[jaydot]

]

Deptford High Street there is a Halal butchers and all the Asian guys in there are constantly blasting reggae really loud, if that's not a perfect example of different ethnicity mixing I don't know what is

Stop talking out your arse Jay

Once again you're missing the point, that's "old" immigration, people who probably speak the langauge.

I personally feel alien. Maybe that's just me, but with all the foreign tongues on public transport/on the high street how can you not feel alien? This is England, they should make an effort to learn the language if they're going to stay here.

[magma]

]

Deptford High Street there is a Halal butchers and all the Asian guys in there are constantly blasting reggae really loud, if that's not a perfect example of different ethnicity mixing I don't know what is

Stop talking out your arse Jay

Once again you're missing the point, that's "old" immigration, people who probably speak the langauge.

I personally feel alien. Maybe that's just me, but with all the foreign tongues on public transport/on the high street how can you not feel alien? This is England, they should make an effort to learn the language if they're going to stay here.

What makes you think they aren't? If you moved to Spain, wouldn't you learn Spanish but still speak English to your family?

Do you assume the worst of every stranger? There seems to be so much fear laced into your words. It's kinda sad.

[DJoe]

No matter how much people post it boils down to the same arguments' the cultural and economic impacts of migrants on the UK


-I've already said they make you feel alien in your own country and only mix within their own communties

no they don't they may make you fell like that. but noone i know has ever felt like that

-I've already said that they take blue collar jobs at the expense of blue-collar British workers ie 16-24 people fresh out of school-unmployment being so high amongst that peer group

so there aren't enough jobs around, maybe we should look to try and create more jobs rather than putting ourselves in a bad economic position by leaving the EU
They also bring businesses and start up businesses, which create jobs.

-I've already said they're a strain on the benefits system and 80% of Eastern Europeans earn minimum wage so don't contribtue much to the economy financially but take up public services

Thats just a random figure you've made up in your head, unless you can provide a link, then i'll believe you. this is a very farfetched claim. especially when we have provided you with stats on numerous occasions showing that they do infact contribute financially and use significantly less public services than british nationals.

-I've already said that they take up social housing and the solution was "ok let's build new houses" at a cost to the taxpayer and environment

It has been argued that it wouldn't be a cost to the tax payer. ukip is pro fracking so the environment argument is stupid. ukip also want to spend an extra 30 billion on defense. this would be better used building houses and schools, and so creating jobs

-I've already said they take up university and school places at the expense of Britons

What more needs to be said?

read my last bit. immigrants taking up university places is a good thing, it means skilled people who will contribute to the economy are coming into the country. this is also more down to the universities entrance policy than government policy. also immigrants aren't replacing british uni students, just adding to them, they dont take their spaces.



I have provided replies to your points. see if you can reply back and further your argument rather than saying the same thing again.


also re intergration
Please name one cultural activity that is relevant or that you partake in that immigrants haven't contributed to.



immigrants do learn the language. i have never come across anyone in england that doesn't speak english and i live in london and manchester

[scspkr99]

1.8 million Britons living in Europe Jaydot should they be forced to return home as well. How many English expats do you think speak spanish to other English expats living in spain. I doubt it's the majority like.

Seems to me that you're fucked off that you can't follow other peoples conversations when they are none of your business

[magma]

I'm guessing jaydot thinks wub should be posting in Spanish.

[scspkr99]

Hola.

[jaydot]

-I've already said they make you feel alien in your own country and only mix within their own communties

So all the examples we've given you of integration, including the fact that two of my best friends married Polish girls and at least one of the members in this very community goes out with a Polish girl (who's also a member of this community) mean nothing? I've honestly never met anyone who wasn't at least a borderline racist that has ever complained about feeling "alien" anywhere.

-I've already said that they take blue collar jobs at the expense of blue-collar British workers ie 16-24 people fresh out of school-unmployment being so high amongst that peer group

So they take the most labour intensive and lowest paid jobs yet they're scroungers?

-I've already said they're a strain on the benefits system and 80% of Eastern Europeans earn minimum wage so don't contribtue much to the economy financially but take up public services

Incredibly debatable.

-I've already said that they take up social housing and the solution was "ok let's build new houses" at a cost to the taxpayer and environment

You know that building houses creates jobs and that whether they're built for social housing or any other reason, they create profit, right? House building doesn't just create houses for people to live in, it energises the building sector leading to manifold improvements. New communities require businesses to support them, new schools, new doctors, new supermarkets... all create jobs. Expansion is a good thing.

-I've already said they take up university and school places at the expense of Britons

Show me the British 4 year old that can't get into a school please. This sort of thing is very easy to say, incredibly difficult to back up.

What more needs to be said?

"I'm a filthy racist and I decided before I posted this thread that I wouldn't be swayed by such things as 'facts' or 'logic' because everybody knows reality has a liberal bias"?

We can all post facts:

*397,000 non-UK nationals were on benefits in August 2013, and that's a hell of a lot.

12.9% of all social housing tenants (that is recieiving new social housing) were non-UK nationals; once again that's pretty high.

*One in 13 people in the UK was a foreign national in 2012. That's pretty high.

"filthy racist" is always the riposte of the middle-class liberal not affected by the issues at hand when you say immigration is a bad thing

[particle-jim]

]

Deptford High Street there is a Halal butchers and all the Asian guys in there are constantly blasting reggae really loud, if that's not a perfect example of different ethnicity mixing I don't know what is

Stop talking out your arse Jay

Once again you're missing the point, that's "old" immigration, people who probably speak the langauge.

I personally feel alien. Maybe that's just me, but with all the foreign tongues on public transport/on the high street how can you not feel alien? This is England, they should make an effort to learn the language if they're going to stay here.

I fail to see the difference between "old" and "new" immigration, seems like something you've just decided upon to protect yourself from all this cognitive dissonance, besides I'm sure a lot of people you hear talking in foreign languages will be doing so because they're talking to people of the same nationality, I suspect they actually can speak english but why wouldn't you talk in your native tongue to someone else of the same nationality?

When I move to Mexico at the end of the year, if I should happen to meet a fellow Englishman I'm not gonna talk to him in fucking Spanish am I?

[jaydot]

No matter how much people post it boils down to the same arguments' the cultural and economic impacts of migrants on the UK


-I've already said they make you feel alien in your own country and only mix within their own communties

no they don't they may make you fell like that. but noone i know has ever felt like that

-I've already said that they take blue collar jobs at the expense of blue-collar British workers ie 16-24 people fresh out of school-unmployment being so high amongst that peer group

so there aren't enough jobs around, maybe we should look to try and create more jobs rather than putting ourselves in a bad economic position by leaving the EU
They also bring businesses and start up businesses, which create jobs.

-I've already said they're a strain on the benefits system and 80% of Eastern Europeans earn minimum wage so don't contribtue much to the economy financially but take up public services

Thats just a random figure you've made up in your head, unless you can provide a link, then i'll believe you. this is a very farfetched claim. especially when we have provided you with stats on numerous occasions showing that they do infact contribute financially and use significantly less public services than british nationals.

-I've already said that they take up social housing and the solution was "ok let's build new houses" at a cost to the taxpayer and environment

It has been argued that it wouldn't be a cost to the tax payer. ukip is pro fracking so the environment argument is stupid. ukip also want to spend an extra 30 billion on defense. this would be better used building houses and schools, and so creating jobs

immigrants do learn the language. i have never come across anyone in england that doesn't speak english and i live in london and manchester

I find this very hard to believe indeed. Are you seriously telling me you've never come across some new to the country who can't speak English?