New format for digi dj's

[abZ]

I don't like the idea.

It will increase the amount of copycat music out there exponentially.

Not if there was a legal clause attatched to the purchase, basically a disclaimer saying you won't use the parts for commercial product, performance only.

do you mean like the one they put on cds about how you're not allowed to copy them or play them for a crowd?

[Original Face]

Interesting thread. I suspect technology will eventually make DJing with individual parts a possibility regardless of whether the producers release their stems. This could come sooner than we expect, judging from the demos of the new Melodyne (http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna).

Given that the possibility is likely to be there, the question is whether audiences are going to take to it. My guess is that some will (cf. the popularity of 2ManyDJs mashup mixes) and some won't. The techno and house scenes are likely to be all over it, partly because the music lends itself to this kind of mixing. In other areas some sort of compromise between live remixes and conventional mixing is more likely - i.e. you'll still hear complete tunes (because they sound better) but mixes between tunes will become extended, more intricate and so on.

[abZ]

Interesting thread. I suspect technology will eventually make DJing with individual parts a possibility regardless of whether the producers release their stems. This could come sooner than we expect, judging from the demos of the new Melodyne (http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna).

Given that the possibility is likely to be there, the question is whether audiences are going to take to it. My guess is that some will (cf. the popularity of 2ManyDJs mashup mixes) and some won't. The techno and house scenes are likely to be all over it, partly because the music lends itself to this kind of mixing. In other areas some sort of compromise between live remixes and conventional mixing is more likely - i.e. you'll still hear complete tunes (because they sound better) but mixes between tunes will become extended, more intricate and so on.

Some wishful thinking about that software. You will never be able to separate individual instruments. You should read up on what that is actually for without reading anything into it or letting your imagination go wild.

Q: For what type of material is Direct Note Access suitable?


A: Direct Note Access is designed for single polyphonic tracks. You can use it for the quality targeted editing of a piano, a guitar or a string quartet. Optimum results are obtained with cleanly recorded signals to which as few effects have been added as possible.



Q: How about mixed signals i.e. where you have a piano and a guitar on the same track?

A: Direct Note Access recognizes notes in their harmonic and temporal contexts. It cannot detect which instrument has played which note. So if a piano and a guitar play the same note at the same time, you cannot edit the guitar separately. With Direct Note Access, you can access the note itself, which in this case means the signal of both instruments.

Not even sure it does what it says on the tin very well, they have been pushing back the release date for the last 3/4 years.

[Original Face]

Interesting thread. I suspect technology will eventually make DJing with individual parts a possibility regardless of whether the producers release their stems. This could come sooner than we expect, judging from the demos of the new Melodyne (http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna).

Given that the possibility is likely to be there, the question is whether audiences are going to take to it. My guess is that some will (cf. the popularity of 2ManyDJs mashup mixes) and some won't. The techno and house scenes are likely to be all over it, partly because the music lends itself to this kind of mixing. In other areas some sort of compromise between live remixes and conventional mixing is more likely - i.e. you'll still hear complete tunes (because they sound better) but mixes between tunes will become extended, more intricate and so on.

Some wishful thinking about that software. You will never be able to separate individual instruments. You should read up on what that is actually for without reading anything into it or letting your imagination go wild.

Q: For what type of material is Direct Note Access suitable?


A: Direct Note Access is designed for single polyphonic tracks. You can use it for the quality targeted editing of a piano, a guitar or a string quartet. Optimum results are obtained with cleanly recorded signals to which as few effects have been added as possible.



Q: How about mixed signals i.e. where you have a piano and a guitar on the same track?

A: Direct Note Access recognizes notes in their harmonic and temporal contexts. It cannot detect which instrument has played which note. So if a piano and a guitar play the same note at the same time, you cannot edit the guitar separately. With Direct Note Access, you can access the note itself, which in this case means the signal of both instruments.

Not even sure it does what it says on the tin very well, they have been pushing back the release date for the last 3/4 years.

Yes, I did read that. And I've seen it demonstrated (online), too. I didn't mean to imply that Melodyne/DNA was the answer. My point was that DNA's development suggests the technology is already quite advanced. It's worth noting, too, that the passage you quote leaves a lot of questions unanswered. It's still possible DNA will assist DJs in extracting riffs from whole mixes in some cases, even if it isn't designed to do so.

[dopelabs]

acidplanet.com does things like this for their remix contests.. i think it would make 'ripping off' tunes a bit easier.. being able to have all the individual samples to a tune for people to use really wouldnt make it your tune anymore as people would most likely not use it in its original form... how would royalties and copyrighting work out with this?

[deadly_habit]

new shibuya breaks serato disk is the bees knees
one side reg vinyl full of scratvh tones etc flip timecode for serato

[hellfire machina]

Wow this thread has grown since I looked last, so to answer some of your questions here goes..


In terms of a disclaimer, there would be a legal agreement attatched to the stem pack which would also be watermarked. If the stems were used for commercial use then the person would be breaking that legal agreement. Labels would in turn include a clause in the recording contract with the artist. If the agreement was broken, both parties would be liable.

The stem packs are purely for performance use, sure some people will abuse this, shame on them, much like the people that use torrent/file sharer sites. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, lifes far too short.

As for increasing copycat production, I think I'm in the minority when I say I don't see this in the way a lot of dsf users post complaints about. Writing/producing music isn't a pissing contest to me but I also recognise that to many it is. I'm a firm believer in that if it sounds good it sounds good, if it makes people lose it on the dancefloor then jobs a good un, if an emotiv track touches people then in turn, job well done. Music has been replicated since the dawn of time, it's a form of communication to me not something to make myself feel better than others, I don't have the need to do that personally.

Many producers base their whole careers on ripping off lesser known artists, Dj Spooky is a perfect example of this, for those that know he is a joke, for those that don't, no harm done, it's the way of the world and to me there are far more important things to worry about in life.

At the end of the day it really is down to the individual artist/label etc wether they support this format or not, some will some won't.

If it increases the creativity put into live performance then I'm all for it, for me that's where true individuality can be found, in performance, a one off unique expression of self.

[knivez]

sounds interesting im sure there are lots of djs who would personally love something like that. I think it would be real cool to go in an out of songs with a personal flare

[gorillabearbear]

No.

As a producer the track as a whole is what I want to sound good, I don't want to have to make each part good on it's own. Music is a feeling.

I guess basically cosigning on this. Also, I'm seeing peeps saying it's good because people will have to write tunes both for listening and dancing, but surely the best tracks are the ones that work in both environments?

edit: Gotta say though I'm not against it either really. Anything interesting is good for any scene.

[upreal]

I sure hope this is true and will be achieved soon!

[notch]

I'm in.. What a great Idea.. Very cool..

[lightshapers]

i think its a good idea in theory.

depends what its going to cost. has to be priced in a way to make it appealing, some of the ones ive seen by other people have been stupid money.

[drum syndicate]

I think it would be great. I'm definitely into the idea... would make programming sets in ableton a lot more creative because of that exact concept of using multiple elements from various songs to create something new.. or w/ the 6 sample banks in serato n such

[vertex]

It's already been done, look up MOD files.

[westernsynthetics]

thats an expensive mastering bill for 1 track

[yooamatwa]

Man this would be a great thing and could push DJ Performances to the next level..personally id love to have the composite parts for some of the tracks i love then create videos to go along with these parts .

Then you could mix the video and audio together and create a pretty fucking sick AV show...i've had a go with this in Resolume...but not being the best producer in the world..well the videos ok my beats are lacking

I can't ever see this happening en masse .. as mentioned in previous posts there are just too many pitfalls... but i'd love to see a label give it go, shit I'd be happy with just the composite parts of say a 1 min loop that you could mash up together with the full tune... I reckon that would be plenty to get creative with

[86.]

just include the stems with the download. or make it a limited number of downloads for the version with the stems

[unlikely]

thats an expensive mastering bill for 1 track

yea how would that even work? you couldn't have mastered separates as the mastering obv addresses the final mix of elements, would you just get unmastered separates? But then when they recombined they wouldn't sound as good! Would be a whole new issue for the industry to wrap its brain round at least.

Its a nice idea but if Im being honest i would probably want to use it to nick bits of other tracks from other genres for my own, and i don't think the legality issue would necessarily be any different to the millions of tracks that are commercially available out there which use unlicensed short samples. Also say you use a stock sample in a track, then it gets this treatment, and then someone else uses that part, but its a stock sample re-reduced to its original form, who owns that eh?

re melodyne: no way is that program even CLOSE to doing this, I really don't think its possible to do this to a stereo track ever tbh. Isolating frequencies (and their harmonics) for processing is nothing new, but timbres tied to frequencies, AFTER they have been blended and affected by other timbres/frequencies in a stereo mixdown, just not possible within current and foreseeable sound engineering logic.

[aporia1]

hmm...i think its cool especially if you are an ableton dj...you could get real creative. but outside of ableton idk....i'd also think maybe the artists would be concerned with the freedom that would come with it of people doing remixes of their shit?