amon tobin opened with 45 min of straight dubstep tonight

[_boring]

it's all about the end product.

4 decks rapes 2 decks if u know what ur doing, and the logistics work way better with a computer.

[raffia]

why is it expensive to travel with vinyl?

why do you put out your music on vinyl if you can't even be bothered to rep it yourself? not a great example to your fans is it.

so many poor excuses for not using vinyl these days

1 - because it weighs a lot, surprisingly!
2 - I do not put my music out on vinyl,my label does.
3 - I actually buy shit loads of vinyl (always have done and always will do) and used to do 4 deck scratch deejay sets with my pal Buddy Peace. I don't use Serato myself, i was just adding some thoughts about the quoted comment. BUT i do use Ableton Live for playing out with as after going from two piece 4 deck sets i wanted to do able to do more then just 2 or 3 deck sets on my own. This is where Ableton came in - allows me to perform somethin between a deejay set and a 'live' set, cutting up loops playing 4 or 5 tracks at a time etc.....

so many poor posts without people knowing what they are talking about these days

1 - because it weighs a lot, surprisingly!

even if you have to pay extra to put it on a plane its a work related expense

2 - I do not put my music out on vinyl,my label does.

do you disagree with that? so you don't want people to buy your records?


if you are gettin more creative using ableton,dats cool, no need to complain about records.

[_boring]

stop taking a piss in my thread

remove the baseball bat from your wastegash!


(more britspeak eh?)

[raffia]

chill out mate its called free speech

[Genevieve]

why is it expensive to travel with vinyl?

why do you put out your music on vinyl if you can't even be bothered to rep it yourself? not a great example to your fans is it.

so many poor excuses for not using vinyl these days

Vinyl caps off highs, is big while having small storage capacity. Especially 12 inch singles. You lose 12 inches of space for two songs. A record bag is far heavier than a little keychain sized USB drive.

Can hold 8 gig.... and let's say an average .FLAC tune is 50 mb (no idea). Thus, you can fit 160 high quality tunes on something the size of a keychain that weighs next to nothing.

These are the well established facts. o.o

Also, to touring DJs/performers, especially in the dubstep scene, who aren't that big, space is valuable on the road. Seems like a huge luxury to give up to keep outdated technology alive for nostalgia's sake.

Now, people are totally fine with you using vinyl, can't knock preference. But why do you want to push outdated technology onto others?

And to answer your question: Well, if the fans want it, who are 'you' to keep them from acquiring it? Seems rather selfish to me. 'All these people are kind enough to want my music, I don't like vinyl, but they do, so meh, if it makes them happy, I might as well release it that way'.

Not all people are that idealistic and irrationally attached to a format that carries music, most of them just care about the music itself. Most people (like me) don't care what others listen to music on. Vinyl will die out sooner than later, so I don't even see the point of desperately sticking to it. Seems to be nothing more but the prolonging of an eventual death, more than anything.

even if you have to pay extra to put it on a plane its a work related expense

One that can be avoided. Costing more money to your label just so you can live out your attachment to a format seems really selfish to me.

no need to complain about records.

He isn't. He's just saying that records are very inefficient and space and money consuming compared to some far more efficient alternatives. That's pretty much a fact, so it's really arrogant of vinyl purists to try to push their lifestyle onto others while he's not trying to push his them.

[deamonds]

yea, i wonder why anyone would still use vinyl

[Genevieve]

yea, i wonder why anyone would still use vinyl

Due to the nature of vinyl, it's not as prone to be subject to the 'loudness' war, resulting in better masters (though CDs are capable of better sound quality) and for DJs, the way you can handle vinyl hands on is a huge plus (though this is nullified by time coded vinyl). Still doesn't change the fact that 5 kg of vinyl, about 12 inches wide, is far less efficient than something the size of a keychain that holds 4 times as much music, if not more.

It's especially easy for DJs who travel to gig to gig from their home in their car with a trunk full of vinyl to see little downsides. But for DJs playing worldwide, who are not backed by major labels or anything, it's just really simple: vinyl hogs more space and weight with less capacity than a little USB drive does.

[antipode]

The excercise is good for you.

[deamonds]

yea, i wonder why anyone would still use vinyl

Due to the nature of vinyl, it's not as prone to be subject to the 'loudness' war, resulting in better masters (though CDs are capable of better sound quality) and for DJs, the way you can handle vinyl hands on is a huge plus (though this is nullified by time coded vinyl). Still doesn't change the fact that 5 kg of vinyl, about 12 inches wide, is far less efficient than something the size of a keychain that holds 4 times as much music, if not more.

It's especially easy for DJs who travel to gig to gig from their home in their car with a trunk full of vinyl to see little downsides. But for DJs playing worldwide, who are not backed by major labels or anything, it's just really simple: vinyl hogs more space and weight with less capacity than a little USB drive does.

The argument that Digital is more practical over Vinyl is obvious due to the 24kg limit

Saying that vinyl is inevitably going to become redundant is silly no? (And before you say it I dont mean that you meant it based on the above)

[frebentos]

long live vinyl.

[Genevieve]

Saying that vinyl is inevitably going to become redundant is silly no? (And before you say it I dont mean that you meant it based on the above)

Less practical technology is going to be widely replaced by more practical technology. That's a reoccurring process. Vinyl won't be the standard among DJs anymore for many years. Give me some good reasons why it would be?

[seckle]

Saying that vinyl is inevitably going to become redundant is silly no? (And before you say it I dont mean that you meant it based on the above)

Less practical technology is going to be widely replaced by more practical technology. That's a reoccurring process. Vinyl won't be the standard among DJs anymore for many years. Give me some good reasons why it would be?

legacy. efficiency is not the only reason. you can carry on thinking about practical technology. i'll take vinyl anyday.

[milanese]

why do you put out your music on vinyl if you can't even be bothered to rep it yourself? not a great example to your fans is it.

so many poor excuses for not using vinyl these days

/////

do you disagree with that? so you don't want people to buy your records?

too funny.

many people put stuff out on vinyl, cd and mp3... should they be playing with all 3 formats then?

[kingcannibal]

why is it expensive to travel with vinyl?

why do you put out your music on vinyl if you can't even be bothered to rep it yourself? not a great example to your fans is it.

so many poor excuses for not using vinyl these days

1 - because it weighs a lot, surprisingly!
2 - I do not put my music out on vinyl,my label does.
3 - I actually buy shit loads of vinyl (always have done and always will do) and used to do 4 deck scratch deejay sets with my pal Buddy Peace. I don't use Serato myself, i was just adding some thoughts about the quoted comment. BUT i do use Ableton Live for playing out with as after going from two piece 4 deck sets i wanted to do able to do more then just 2 or 3 deck sets on my own. This is where Ableton came in - allows me to perform somethin between a deejay set and a 'live' set, cutting up loops playing 4 or 5 tracks at a time etc.....

so many poor posts without people knowing what they are talking about these days

1 - because it weighs a lot, surprisingly!

even if you have to pay extra to put it on a plane its a work related expense

2 - I do not put my music out on vinyl,my label does.

do you disagree with that? so you don't want people to buy your records?


if you are gettin more creative using ableton,dats cool, no need to complain about records.

i didn't complain about records and never would do, i worked in a record shop for years and then moved on to working in distribution. I've a room full of it, if i like a tune i'll by pick up the vinyl and most likely then a Wav of it too (so i can get the best possible quality of it).

I've scoliosis a back condition that makes it painful to carry, or pull around a box of records, another reason why i don't use vinyl these days.
Sure you can call it a work related expense, but why incur that expense when you don't have to? People have been using cds for years now, especially when you are touring a lot, vinyl can always get lost / damaged / warped etc - having a wallet of cds or a laptop in strapped to your back means there is less likely hood that this will happen.

I never said i don't want people to by my records - if i didn't want that i wouldn't post stuff about them on this forum all the time would I. Was just pointing out that I, personally do not release them. For what its worth my album will be cd only, despite me trying to push for a vinyl release too.

I don't want vinyl to become a redundant format, its still my primary format of choice (as my Chemical Records accounts and ever decreasing studio size tell me!) but each format has its own advantages and disadvantages, its about picking and choosing which to use in which situation.

[Genevieve]

Saying that vinyl is inevitably going to become redundant is silly no? (And before you say it I dont mean that you meant it based on the above)

Less practical technology is going to be widely replaced by more practical technology. That's a reoccurring process. Vinyl won't be the standard among DJs anymore for many years. Give me some good reasons why it would be?

legacy. efficiency is not the only reason. you can carry on thinking about practical technology. i'll take vinyl anyday.

More and more people get into DJ'ing with CDs or using their computers, as this technology gets cheaper with time, even more people will. You're thinking of how most people who are into DJ'ing now get into DJ'ing and yeah, that's mostly through vinyl turntables and the like, but as time goes on, more people will get into digital DJ'ing leading to less of an emotional/idealistic attachment to vinyl. Vinyl will likely become more of a novelty for the super successful DJs. 8 tracks have been replaced, VHSs have been replaced. All reduced to novelty markets. To assume that vinyl recordings are the only exception to the technological rule seems really irrational.

And I don't care what other people use. It does not affect me or other people in anyway and people should do whatever makes them happy for as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. For home listening, I'll take the vinyl myself, any given day. The masters are just much better on vinyl and I have a few records on both CD and vinyl and after comparing them, the vinyls sound more crisp and dynamic (though CDs can achieve t he same thing), but that's about it. I'm not 'anti vinyl', I'm anti 'my lifestyle differs from yours and I will judge you for it'.

[seckle]

Vinyl will likely become more of a novelty for the super successful DJs.

in the 90's when cd's took over, the record companies all claimed that vinyl is dead. that didn't work either.
in the 80s they said that the walkman and cassettes would takeover and vinyl is dead. that didn't work either.

vinyl as a format has outlasted 3 decades of its rumored death. don't underestimate the reasoning of a consumer. just because it doesn't suit you, it doesn't mean that it doesn't suit someone else.

[Genevieve]

Vinyl will likely become more of a novelty for the super successful DJs.

in the 90's when cd's took over, the record companies all claimed that vinyl is dead. that didn't work either.
in the 80s they said that the walkman and cassettes would takeover and vinyl is dead. that didn't work either.

vinyl as a format has outlasted 3 decades of its rumored death. don't underestimate the reasoning of a consumer. just because it doesn't suit you, it doesn't mean that it doesn't suit someone else.

That's because record companies were only considering the consumer market. Vinyl is mostly apart of the music scenes that rely on the DJ and the punk scene and since I've been maad into punk for some time now, I can see CDs replacing vinyl as the dominant format with time. More and more punk is being released on CD these days and most of the heads in the punk scene that I talk to find vinyl really not practical at all and would rather see their shit released on CD.

Now, what's left is the DJ scene and until very recently, DJs didn't really have many alternatives when it comes to directly controlling the medium, but now there's CD turntables and even time coded vinyl. So there will be a gradual replacement of vinyl with digital media.

Yeah, people will never fully stop using vinyl, they haven't stopped using 8-tracks either and there are still records being released on 8-track and tape. I have a tape of the American grindcore band Spoonful of Vicodin that was released in 2005 lying next to my laptop, but I wouldn't say that magnetic tape is as relevant as digital media.

It doesn't have anything to do with how I feel about vinyl, 'cause I don't really 'feel' anything towards vinyl, I don't dislike it but I'm not attached to it either. It's just really logical to expect that vinyl will eventually be replaced by CD and time coded records in the DJ scene because they fulfill a niche that previously couldn't be fulfilled by anything but vinyl.

[deamonds]

But people logically thought that CD's would replace vinyl.

Cd's have come along & Vinyl is still here.

People then logically thought mp3's & shit would take over CD's

CD sales have dropped through the floor recently (woolworths pre administration stopped selling CD singles) Vinyl is still here

You also talk about the punk scene like its the be all & end all of vinyl, you obviously dont think that. But then you raise the point of CD Decks like they were released last month & vinyl sales are still at the same level (presumably, havent checked but I saw a thread that they even went up this year) So you're assumption re: vinyl's becoming obsolete, albiet logical, isnt strictly true. (and I am going to do everything I can to help vinyl stay)

[Genevieve]

But people logically thought that CD's would replace vinyl.

Cd's have come along & Vinyl is still here.

Flawed logic, as I touched before. Vinyl had a niche market that most people didn't consider and until recently, couldn't be fulfilled by anything but vinyl. Since gradually, more and more people get into DJ'ing without big record bags, with time it will disappear.

As I said, it's only the music scenes that rely on vinyl that really keep it alive.

People then logically thought mp3's & shit would take over CD's

CD sales have dropped through the floor recently (woolworths pre administration stopped selling CD singles) Vinyl is still here

Again, as I said. Niche market. Singles get spun by DJs, but no one likes spending cash on a single song they can download these days, the deal sucks. No one buys CD singles anymore. However, if you wanna spin it in a club, you'll NEED to get the vinyl. Which isn't always true. There's a number of local clubs that solely run on CD.

You also talk about the punk scene like its the be all & end all of vinyl, you obviously dont think that. But then you raise the point of CD Decks like they were released last month & vinyl sales are still at the same level (presumably, havent checked but I saw a thread that they even went up this year) So you're assumption re: vinyl's becoming obsolete, albiet logical, isnt strictly true. (and I am going to do everything I can to help vinyl stay)

I said that the two major pillars of vinyl are the punk scene and the DJ scenes and that in the punk scene, there's a gradual transition to CD and in the DJ related scenes (hip-hop, electronic music) there wasn't a medium capable of replacing vinyl until recently, perhaps, 8 years ago. Most people who are into DJ'ing these days got into DJ'ing more than 8 years ago and are still apart of an older generation and CD turntables got more widespread about 5 years ago. In the grand scheme of things, non-vinyl DJ'ing is still in its infancy.

Yeah, vinyl sales have been static. This actually means that there's less DJs who buy vinyl because there are more consumers for home use of vinyl these days due to a recent trend in record purchasing (even some major chain stores have started carrying vinyl). It'll fade with time, it's mostly alt/classic rawk and some indie rock.

As for pirating, history has repeatedly proven that pirating doesn't kill the industry. Simply put, people like buying things with artwork and pretty packaging. The deal just has to be good (singles offer a bad deal).

Damnit, I shouldn't even get into discussions. I never enjoy them. o.o I mean, ever (got nothing to do with you).

[godflesh fiend]

I'll make this quick.

Vinyl forever, cd and mp3 never.