You can't love all dubstep, right?

reso · Post by **reso** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:39 pm

my mum said if u can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:46 pm

I think that there have been points in the last year where I picked up a selection of tunes I'd read about here up to the counter for a listen and was thoroughly bored of them after about 5 seconds of hearing.

Does seem to be a lot of stuff I don't like put out, but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't, and I don't feel compelled to buy it. To be honest though, even if it's a tune you hear out, but you're not keen, in the mix it's only gonna last 3 mins tops, so it's not like Crazy Frog levels of annoyance

Vote with your feet and your cash if you don't like it.

rickyricardo · Post by **rickyricardo** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:10 pm

two oh one wrote: This is one of the most positive forums I've been to on the web, however, I do wonder about those who wish to drop turds from above and what their motivations might be.

Precisely.

What I love best about this forum is that it (most of the time) is very civil. No one wants to log in every morning and see a bunch of "FUCK PRODUCER X!!"..."NO FUCK YOU!!11!" for pages at a time. It's juvenile and accomplishes nothing other than giving the posters their soapbox.

That's what separates constructive criticism from just plain shit-talking.

darkmatter · Post by **darkmatter** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:29 pm

comment with your selek on radio, comment with your feet in a rave, and comment with your cash in a record shop.

there's nothing wrong with a bit of constructive criticism, but it's the "so and so's well overrated, i know what's right and everyone else must be wrong." attitude that's not needed. if you're gonna criticize someone, criticize them using the same words you'd use to their face.

about that other thread - hijak blatantly wouldn't give the slightest shit if someone didn't like his music, cos plenty of people love it. simply calling him "weak" doesn't really cut it though. there are negative comments in that thread that are perfectly okay to say - if people don't agree with remixing classics etc, they've given that as the reason. "he's weak" is just plain disrespectful though, especially if you're gonna say it without any justification.

it's not a case of people being overly diplomatic or kissing arse, it's a recognition that these producers are people who love the same music as us, so sitting behind a screen name on a forum and dissing them aint very helpful for the scene or anyone.

Jubz · Post by **Jubz** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:44 pm

juliun_c90 wrote:on a personal level i don't agree with what smurf said in that thread- i like hijak's stuff, but that's utterly irrelevant. the way he expressed himself could be seen as pretty aggressive and insulting. That and that alone should have been the issue that riled people.

hijak deserves the same basic respect on this forum as each and every member does, irrelevant of whether he's put a tune out. he's not a fucking idol or a superstar. he's someone whos done some pretty good tracks. end of.

what upset me more than any of what smurf said was the distinctly uncomfortable feeling i got that people were defending hijak on his behalf because he is a producer and he has released some tracks. definite evidence of idolatry there.

some of the disses levelled at smurf were fucking ludicrous. you can't prove objectively that hijak (or anyone else) is a good producer FFS. if the man's not feeling him then he's not a good producer to smurf.

no idolatry man, I view everyone as my peer.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:56 pm

Jubscarz wrote: no idolatry man, I view everyone as my peer.

You're mistaken, I'm afraid, I'm on a higher level.

poax · Post by **poax** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:01 pm

People have criticised, and as long as the criticism is fair then it is generally recieved well. But if you just out and out slate someone , people who feel passionatley about this music will defend it as (speaking for the uk mainly) people feel they have followed this sound watched it grow and actually feel as though they own some part of it. Also the fact that producers djs and mcs have an input in this forum with no sense of divide, i mean, for fucksake, skream asked people if they thought a tracklisting he was considering for a cd was any good . They genuinely care about what people think (obviously) and of course they know not everyone loves the beats or style they represent , but its not about offending people unnecessarily.
there is, i dont mind saying, a certain amount of intelligence freely expressed on the forum so when some one just says "he's a weak producer , he's shit" people will heed that as a call to arms . You dont have to have a degree to constructivley say your not feeling something.

ramadanman · Post by **ramadanman** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:07 pm

a lot of it comes from just knowing in person a fair few people who are on this forum

also saying something's shit doesn't help anyone at all

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:08 pm

ramadanman wrote:a lot of it comes from just knowing in person a fair few people who are on this forum

also saying something's shit doesn't help anyone at all

Shut up your tunes are fucking detestable.

I vomit everytime I hear one, and attack whichever DJ is playing them with a hammer.

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:16 pm

jan 2006 = less than 200 people on this forum. 75% of those people knew each other in real life.
jan 2007 = 5000+.

at least it's better here than some of the other underground forum's where you have thousands of unknown names waiting to tear down creativity left right and center.
the community vibes in this scene are heavy, and so you'd have to expect people to support each other.

Jubz · Post by **Jubz** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:18 pm

Corpsey wrote:
Jubscarz wrote: no idolatry man, I view everyone as my peer.
You're mistaken, I'm afraid, I'm on a higher level.

Defcon 5 of retardation, yes.

Rob H · Post by **Rob H** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:55 pm

seckle wrote:jan 2006 = less than 200 people on this forum. 75% of those people knew each other in real life.
jan 2007 = 5000+.

madness!

lycaon_prod · Post by **lycaon_prod** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:08 pm

Corpsey wrote: I vomit everytime I hear one

Surely a good thing.

donruba · Post by **donruba** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:37 pm

brooksy wrote:I think you are coming to this scene from a different perspective (from me anyway)... talking about big name bands and 'idols'. I see this scene as very grassroots and DIY, very much like the punk scene and the free party scene of old.

To start with I just want to clarify that it's not really like I see dubstep artists as godlike superstars, as my way of phrasing myself seems to have led some people to believe. I used the words "star", "idol" and "fan" a bit ironically with the purpose of emphasizing a dichotomy that I mean is present in all genres of music, that is, the fact that there are those who make the music and those who listen to it. But I can see now why it's not (yet?) relevant to make that distinction when it comes to dubstep. I like the comparison with the early punk scene. It's like the pop culture myth about when Sex Pistols played Free Trade Hall in Manchester in 1976, that "everybody that was in the audience that night went on to form a band". When a scene is in that early stage, all the consumers ("fans") are also potential producers ("stars").

I too appreciate the fact that there's a very strong sense of community among dubstep fans, and I feel privileged to be among the people who have discovered it early enough to feel like a part of that. I guess I've never really thought about that a less diplomatic tone of debate might jeopardize this family vibe. If people think so, then I can understand why people are so condemning when someone says that "This tune sucks" or "That procuder is weak".

But still, a few thoughts: don't you think we are a tad bit overprotective when it comes to dubstep artists? Don't you think that when someone makes a record and put it out, that they know that some people will like it and some don't? Do you think that Hijak's gonna break down and cry and stop making music because some guy on a forum says he's a weak producer? I think he's gonna laugh all the way to the, maybe not the bank, but maybe all the way to DMZ.

But then again, there is of course one thing that there will be brutes and morons in the world and one got to accept that, one can still want to keep them away from this forum if the civil tone here is what one likes about it. I appreciate it too, I just want it to become too repressive. I don't like when there's too much do's and don't about what you can and cannot say.

But I partly come here for information about what's going on, what releases that are out and if they're good or not. When the posts about exactly EVERY record that's coming out is "This tune is wikkid", "Yeah m8 I luv it", "Very big release", and so on, I find that very uninforming. I don't want to sit and count the superlatives to find out if a record is good or not. "Hm, fifteen people say X is the greatest dubstep tune ever made, and only four people said that Y is the best ever. I guess that means that that Y is realy lousy." I want to no if it's good OR bad.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:52 pm

How about listening to the record yourself to see if it's good or not?

bob crunkhouse · Post by **bob crunkhouse** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:10 pm

brooksy wrote:But I partly come here for information about what's going on, what releases that are out and if they're good or not. When the posts about exactly EVERY record that's coming out is "This tune is wikkid", "Yeah m8 I luv it", "Very big release", and so on, I find that very uninforming. I don't want to sit and count the superlatives to find out if a record is good or not. "Hm, fifteen people say X is the greatest dubstep tune ever made, and only four people said that Y is the best ever. I guess that means that that Y is realy lousy." I want to no if it's good OR bad.

u wot??

obiwan · Post by **obiwan** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:11 pm

You loveable idiot, of course no one likes every dubstep tune. I don't like Cays Crays remix even though absolutely everyone else does. I just don't like the vocal, I like original 70's reggae and think its much better than Fat Freddies which just sounds like arty student music to me, and I just find the beat too slow to dance too and depressing. Also I don't like anything too monotonous, screechy or obvious synthy strings. I would say I like 60% of Dubstep which is pretty good going as I like 50% reggae 30% of hip-hop and about 2% of everything else!

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:15 pm

obIwan wrote:You loveable idiot,

Why, you brute

donruba · Post by **donruba** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:19 pm

Corpsey wrote:How about listening to the record yourself to see if it's good or not?

Oh my... well, I guess I could have expressed myself more clearly. You see, I'm not ONLY interested in whether the tune is good or not. That is of course something totally subjective, and the only way to find out would be to listen to it.

But I'm interested in reading what other thinks about the music I listen to myself. What they think is good and why AND what they think is bad and why.

To me, to be interested in a certain kind of music doesn't mean just listening to it. It means reading about it, discussing, theorizing, analyzing it. I feel that kind of intellectual exchange doesnt thrive under conditions when everone try to nice all the time. You can't have a real discussion about anything under those conditions. It's just "I think this tune is great", "Yeah, me too", "Hello guys, I also like this tune" "OMG that's fantastic, you too??!! Come here and give us a hug". When everyone agress, nothing exciting and new is ever said. No new ideas are born.

One of the best forums on the internet is, as we all probably know, called Dissensus. Not Consensus. There is a reason for that, you know.

donruba · Post by **donruba** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:25 pm

Bob Crunkhouse wrote:
brooksy wrote:But I partly come here for information about what's going on, what releases that are out and if they're good or not. When the posts about exactly EVERY record that's coming out is "This tune is wikkid", "Yeah m8 I luv it", "Very big release", and so on, I find that very uninforming. I don't want to sit and count the superlatives to find out if a record is good or not. "Hm, fifteen people say X is the greatest dubstep tune ever made, and only four people said that Y is the best ever. I guess that means that that Y is realy lousy." I want to no if it's good OR bad.
u wot??

*"I want to KNOW if it's good or bad."
Better?

And who are you to criticize? You managed to misquote so it looks like brooksy wrote it when it was me. Hah!

You can't love all dubstep, right?

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