Breakdowns, do we NEED to have them?

[Phigure]

why do all these nubs post on here ask how to get "wobble bass" if it is not a signature of our genre?

Because they're noobs duh. I think your confusing 'core characteristic' with 'cliche'.

I'm with Phiggy on this one, dubstep is a feeling, not a sound. The only real themes I'll acknowledge are bass and pace with a bit of space thrown in for good measure. I've made quite a few beats that have no kick on the 1 and no snare on the 3, yet they still have a distinct dubstep flavor. You shouldn't even be talking about what instrument hits where; if anything, discuss accents or emphasis. How you go about achieving that emphasis is part of making music. As for wobble, it's just a vehicle. Likening it to 'the sound' of dubstep is reducing it to something very two dimensional.

Sure both of these things are very common in the scene; the genre is very cannibalistic, partly due to the oversaturation of new producers formulaicly 'giving it a go' without an understanding or passion for the music. This does not mean this is the essence of Dubstep however. I'm sure the majority of photographs taken these days are teenage girls making duck faces and throwing peace bombs to put on facebook, yet I'm sure you would not reduce the art of photography to these shallow elements.

a recent epiphany i've had with music is that in much the same way that people are stupid about virtually every other aspect of life, so too are they stupid about music. thats why shit like miley cyrus and country are popular with the masses, imo, because people have virtually no concept of music whatsoever past what itunes or their friends listen to.

unfortunately, as an artist, we use these "cliches" to describe some of the core characteristics of dubstep to the masses.

i don't want to step on toes here, but using the themes you've detailed, KORN could be labeled as dubstep and i'm sure you are not under that misconception. KORN is certainly not dubstep although it certainly has bass and pace with a bit of space thrown in for good measure.

i have beats as well that do not follow the preconcieved notions of 1st and 3rd, and that doesn't mean they are not dubstep. i also have dubstep without any wobble (which is an aspect i am admittedly passionate about). all of this still does not change the fact that if i were to try and describe the genre to someone, i would use wobble and 1st and 3rd as starting points.

your arguement about photography doesn't float, because you're taking a genre of photography (facebook photos) and trying to generalize the art (photography) with it.

that'd be me saying that wobble and 1st and 3rd is all there is to the art of music.

Teenage girls making duck faces and throwing peace bombs (attributes/aspects/or cliches) is a main part of that genre (being facebook photos), even though i do not do that with my photos on facebook, that is how you would best describe "facebook photos" to someone.

i think that dubstep is a very broad and far reaching genre, and i absolutely agree that there is no absolute characteristics that make up dubstep. i feel like wobble might be best phrased as an "instrument" on its own (eg a noise that is oscillating) because it is an instrument, or vehicle of the dubstep genre, more so then most (if not any) other genres. i am in no way trying relagate dubstep to a standard, just trying to say that a big portion of of dubstep does share (i think you understand i'm not trying to put this genre in a box because i know i would be pissed if someone was trying to say that to me, and i'm certainly not)

jesus christ, i think you're taking that photography analogy waaaaayy too literally

oh, and you weren't saying that wobble and snare on 3 is simply somewhat of common characteristic, you said it was required:

if you want to get philosophical.. dubstep does have some things needed. if you record without oscillation or natrual wobble on any of your tracks, you're just making some brand of techno at 140. if the majority of your beats do not have a snare/clap on 3rd, you're probably not making dubstep.

NEEDED. YOU SAID NEEDED.

[JigSaw]

jesus christ, i think you're taking that photography analogy waaaaayy too literally

oh, and you weren't saying that wobble and snare on 3 is simply somewhat of common characteristic, you said it was required:

if you want to get philosophical.. dubstep does have some things needed. if you record without oscillation or natrual wobble on any of your tracks, you're just making some brand of techno at 140. if the majority of your beats do not have a snare/clap on 3rd, you're probably not making dubstep.

NEEDED. YOU SAID NEEDED.

okay, so i highlighted the important parts you should read over. in both aspects, the 1st/3rd, and the wobble, i specifically put emphasis on the generalization, being "if you record without... on any of your tracks" and "majority of your beats" to try (i failed) to acknoweldge i was not saying it was mandatory.

*edit - maybe i shouldn't have said "needed" in that first post, maybe, "universal", or "common" would have been better, but i still stand by the rest

and yeah haha i might be being very literal with the analogy, but i am trying to establish the way in which i am making this statement.

i would not generalize anything, specifically music without forethought in doing so. i AM a musician, i am very passionate about the music i create, i know you all are too. i'm just trying to be as observative(sic) as i possibly can about any genre so that i can get the cretens to understand it, and check it out,

which in turn gets all the hunnies riding our nuts. and we all know thats cool.

[SunkLo]

Yeah Jig I get what you're saying, but like Phigure pointed out, you said without wobble it would just be 140 bpm electronica. I understand that in order to describe a genre as a whole to someone you would need to make generalizations and reference stylistic conventions, but it must be understood that these are simply popular practices and not necessary conditions. If you look at the photography analogy you'll find it applies more than you think. In the same way that Facebook shots are a style of photography, so too is wobble a style of Dubstep. It is not necessary to produce in that particular style, regardless of how popular it is, to be considered Dubstep.

[JigSaw]

Yeah Jig I get what you're saying, but like Phigure pointed out, you said without wobble it would just be 140 bpm electronica. I understand that in order to describe a genre as a whole to someone you would need to make generalizations and reference stylistic conventions, but it must be understood that these are simply popular practices and not necessary conditions. If you look at the photography analogy you'll find it applies more than you think. In the same way that Facebook shots are a style of photography, so too is wobble a style of Dubstep. It is not necessary to produce in that particular style, regardless of how popular it is, to be considered Dubstep.

i agree with your last sentence 100%, and the photograph analogy works at face value as you've indicated. but i'm sure people would describe photography with some of their girly self shots on facebook (and those people with photoshop, i bet they think they're the standard). i didn't say that ANY track without wobble is just 140 electronica, i meant that if an artist, records at 140 and NOT ONE of their tracks has a wobble anywhere to be found, then if the shoe fits, they might just be 140 electronica. i think we all agree now, just kinda going over my finer points..

in summation.

dubstep- do anything
but if jigsaw generalizes your genre to miley cyruses biggest fan (not sure i'd waste my time), i probably wouldn't start with bands who have no wobble, and no 1st 3rd presence

[Phigure]

i didn't say that ANY track without wobble is just 140 electronica, i meant that if an artist, records at 140 and NOT ONE of their tracks has a wobble anywhere to be found, then if the shoe fits, they might just be 140 electronica.

NO

You said something stupid and now you're trying to weasel yourself out of it. Just fucking admit it.

if you want to get philosophical.. dubstep does have some things needed. if you record without oscillation or natrual wobble on any of your tracks, you're just making some brand of techno at 140. if the majority of your beats do not have a snare/clap on 3rd, you're probably not making dubstep.

You said that snare on 3 and wobble are NEEDED. I realize that you said "without... on any of your tracks" and "majority... do not", but still, you imply that an artist must have songs with wobble, and the majority of their tracks must have a snare on 3, for them to be classified by you as a "dubstep artist"

[SunkLo]

Whatever who cares, I'd rather have crazy drums and bass without wobble and be called 'not dubstep' anyway.
Look at Burial.

[paravrais]

Personally I've always considered a lot of Burials tracks to br garage XD

As for what defines the genre. I would say that around 140bpm with halftime elements = dubstep things like deep sub bass, wobble, snare on third and garage influenced drums are all common attributes associated eigh the genre but don't themselves determine the genre. People seem to forget these days that wobble was used in jungle loads for ages before dubstep was even being conceived.

[JemGrover]

The amount of Dubstep "fans" who comment on Burial videos on Youtube saying he's boring makes me sad

[Phigure]

Whatever who cares, I'd rather have crazy drums and bass without wobble and be called 'not dubstep' anyway.
Look at Burial.

bingo

[mks]

if you want to get philosophical.. dubstep does have some things needed. if you record without oscillation or natrual wobble on any of your tracks, you're just making some brand of techno at 140. if the majority of your beats do not have a snare/clap on 3rd, you're probably not making dubstep.

Man, I usually try to avoid these types of topics, but I have to totally disagree with you here. You are totally generalizing a whole genre of music down to some pre-conceived notions about it.

[JFK]

if you want to get philosophical.. dubstep does have some things needed. if you record without oscillation or natrual wobble on any of your tracks, you're just making some brand of techno at 140. if the majority of your beats do not have a snare/clap on 3rd, you're probably not making dubstep.

Youre joking right?

[Phigure]

if you want to get philosophical.. dubstep does have some things needed. if you record without oscillation or natrual wobble on any of your tracks, you're just making some brand of techno at 140. if the majority of your beats do not have a snare/clap on 3rd, you're probably not making dubstep.

Youre joking right?

Ridiculous, right. Good to know it wasn't just me who was bothered by this

[RandomEyez]

if you want to get philosophical.. dubstep does have some things needed. if you record without oscillation or natrual wobble on any of your tracks, you're just making some brand of techno at 140. if the majority of your beats do not have a snare/clap on 3rd, you're probably not making dubstep.

Surely if you can make one track without a wobble or a snare on the 3rd, and it can be called dubstep, then you can make a further 10 tracks of the same style and it should still all be called dubstep. Or do you need throw a wobble on one of those tracks for that selection to be classed as dubstep?

It makes no sense!

[EBR]

Aaaaaaannnnnd the conclusion is that breakdowns in dubstep is a good idea (sending people to the bar, give 'em a break etc.) but not needed. Skilled Djs can create ambiance and their own breakdowns if they want to.

I don't buy music without a breakdown. Breakdowns create a vibe. On a dance floor its all about the vibes.

Oh and the ladies like the breakdowns. There's got to be some ambiance and soul. Show me a song that has ambiance and soul without breakdowns and i'll eat my hat.

[paravrais]

Aaaaaaannnnnd the conclusion is that breakdowns in dubstep is a good idea (sending people to the bar, give 'em a break etc.) but not needed. Skilled Djs can create ambiance and their own breakdowns if they want to.

I don't buy music without a breakdown. Breakdowns create a vibe. On a dance floor its all about the vibes.

Oh and the ladies like the breakdowns. There's got to be some ambiance and soul. Show me a song that has ambiance and soul without breakdowns and i'll eat my hat.

What about all those thousands of progressive ambient songs??

[amphibian]

The amount of Dubstep "fans" who comment on Burial videos on Youtube saying he's boring makes me sad

Still a valid opinion, however. Burial -can- be rather boring at times, no matter how good he is. Time and place

[EBR]

Secret to enjoying Burial is just turn it up. Seriously... Much of his tunes hit hard IF you crank the volume.

[Phigure]

Secret to enjoying Burial is just turn it up. Seriously... Much of his tunes hit hard IF you crank the volume.

YES

Ghost Hardware to the max makes me go nuts

[JemGrover]

The amount of Dubstep "fans" who comment on Burial videos on Youtube saying he's boring makes me sad

Still a valid opinion, however. Burial -can- be rather boring at times, no matter how good he is. Time and place

NO NO NO. - ahem - not when they're shitting on originals while praising a Mt Eden "Remix" it is in my humble opinion he's exceedingly interesting

/end fanboy

[amphibian]

The amount of Dubstep "fans" who comment on Burial videos on Youtube saying he's boring makes me sad

Still a valid opinion, however. Burial -can- be rather boring at times, no matter how good he is. Time and place

NO NO NO. - ahem - not when they're shitting on originals while praising a Mt Eden "Remix" it is in my humble opinion he's exceedingly interesting

/end fanboy

An entirely different point to what was being discussed =\