Is it true that...

[gargantuan]

you lost me here...
who said i believe everything is a lie?
why would i believe in people that have a long history of lies and killings? again: do you trust the people who tell you aspartame, marlboro and xanax are safe?
do you know how they interconnect - the scientists, pharma, fda and all?
you don't trust the pharma but you trust the scientists and the magazines that they are sponsoring? how about their lobby, like how it works? you know how many billions they put in lobbying?
you know pharma's contribution to the gdp? with that kind of money, you think making the masses believe anything would be a problem?

Alright dude you're going on a total tangent. Tobacco companies sell marlboros and they'll tell you in your face smoking kills you. A doctor will tell you what happens when you take too many bars and that it's addictive. Everything is interconnected. What's your point? There's no substance here

"the burden of proof" is one of the most horrible concepts outside a court-room
truth is a burden only for those who run from it! is that your case? no worries, i have no way and no will to enforce it on you. it's you who will be living by your beliefs, not me. yeah, we are all influenced by the general beliefs, but i stopped hoping for anything good from that direction, i'm fully adapted to this reality and i'm just doing my duty to provide reason and what i believe it's truth, for my own self-respect and inner balance. do whatever with it!

if truth can't make you happy, lies won't for sure, that's how i get through life and i gotta say i love my life now 1000 times better than when i was a drone looking for happiness in self-delusion and shallow comfort.

alien pimp

@underline:

So basically, you don't have any evidence? alright, sweet.

nah man, i don't, i'm inventing shit...
jeezz, you care about if I have evidence?? how's that any relevant to you?
you should care if there's evidence out there that you don't know about... you really think there's not? good, live by it
whatta mentality 0_o

but then again, you think tobacco companies tell you shit in the face and it always was like this so probably you grew pubes in the last few years...

[AllNightDayDream]

nah man, i don't, i'm inventing shit...
jeezz, you care about if I have evidence?? how's that any relevant to you?
you should care if there's evidence out there that you don't know about... you really think there's not? good, live by it
whatta mentality 0_o

but then again, you think tobacco companies tell you shit in the face and it always was like this so probably you grew pubes in the last few years...

You're just too blind, I wish you could see it like I see it, CUZ IT'S FUCKIN HAPPENING RIGHT NOW! IT'S REALLY REALLY REALLY FUCKING HAPPENING!
just open your fourth eye, bro!

[gargantuan]

dude, i don't take advices from people who think truth is a burden and tobacco companies tell you in the face their shit is killing you or such things like you've said
and most especially i don't care for people who are in a debate to win, not to find out things and verify the solidity of their beliefs... i'll listen when i'll see you have the knowledge and the balls to dismantle my points instead of avoiding them in an attempt to win the debate
another fucked up education thing in america: debate teams... teaching you how to win not how to find out

[AllNightDayDream]

dude, i don't take advices from people who think truth is a burden and tobacco companies tell you in the face their shit is killing you or such things like you've said
and most especially i don't care for people who are in a debate to win, not to find out things and verify the solidity of their beliefs... i'll listen when i'll see you have the knowledge and the balls to dismantle my points instead of avoiding them in an attempt to win the debate
another fucked up education thing in america: debate teams... teaching you how to win not how to find out

You don't have points. To make a point you need evidence. That is the burden. Ever heard of the Nizkor project? If you haven't, you need to study this before trying to argue anyone further. In this context I would start here.

I've stated elsewhere on the forum my philosophy to "debate". It's a misleading term. I prefer conversation. Or argument. I'm not here to win, just to gather information and perspective. You haven't provided either. It's funny that you're telling me as if i'm the one who told the Ad Hominem.

[gargantuan]

dude, i don't take advices from people who think truth is a burden and tobacco companies tell you in the face their shit is killing you or such things like you've said
and most especially i don't care for people who are in a debate to win, not to find out things and verify the solidity of their beliefs... i'll listen when i'll see you have the knowledge and the balls to dismantle my points instead of avoiding them in an attempt to win the debate
another fucked up education thing in america: debate teams... teaching you how to win not how to find out

You don't have points. To make a point you need evidence. That is the burden. Ever heard of the Nizkor project? If you haven't, you need to study this before trying to argue anyone further. In this context I would start here.

I've stated elsewhere on the forum my philosophy to "debate". It's a misleading term. I prefer conversation. Or argument. I'm not here to win, just to gather information and perspective. You haven't provided either. It's funny that you're telling me as if i'm the one who told the Ad Hominem.

now you lie - that makes it all pointless
good luck finding information and educating yourself with your methods of ignoring whatever you can't answer!
i'm not here to be a partner in such debates [or whatever you might want to call them, names are irrelevant, we both know what reality we're talking about]

[AllNightDayDream]

now you lie - that makes it all pointless
good luck finding information and educating yourself with your methods of ignoring whatever you can't answer!
i'm not here to be a partner in such debates [or whatever you might want to call them, names are irrelevant, we both know what reality we're talking about]

You can't think of anything to back up your point (whatever it is)? Given a little time I could show you journalistic evidence of pharmaceutical companies abusing their power. I could point to published experiments on cold fusion that were rejected by the science community, only to see other studies accomplishing the same results later. If only I knew what your actual point was.

this is the closest thing you have to a point:

why would i believe in people that have a long history of lies and killings? again: do you trust the people who tell you aspartame, marlboro and xanax are safe?
do you know how they interconnect - the scientists, pharma, fda and all?
you don't trust the pharma but you trust the scientists and the magazines that they are sponsoring? how about their lobby, like how it works? you know how many billions they put in lobbying?
you know pharma's contribution to the gdp? with that kind of money, you think making the masses believe anything would be a problem?

Your point i'm assuming is that we shouldn't trust the underlined organizations. You say it's because they have a history of lies and killings. This is partially true, even though you have decided not to give any evidence to give it some context.

A. )You bring in two completely irrelevant organizations, pharma and the FDA. My point was limited to studies made by actual scientists.
B. )Neither of those organizations regulate journals.
C. )These (unrelated) organizations are also the reason your beef, poultry, water, cabbage, etc. aren't all infected with advanced bacteria, viruses, and parasites.
D. )Scientists are the source for nearly every security and luxury we experience as humans in the 21st century.

Now let me assume your point is different: that laetrile is actually beneficial to cancer patients and would be an effective treatment. I've already cited a journal and a PDQ saying otherwise. The burden of proof is on you.

[gargantuan]

i've lost interest in chatting with you man, you're fake, self contradicting and inconsistent in my perception
if you care, apply what you've learned from the nizkor project to your own post you've just made. i've learned that in 11th grade

[AllNightDayDream]

weak.

[gargantuan]

weak.

still concerned with appearing "stronger"?
i'm the weakest man! weakest of the weak! because i don't need the "muscles" you're flexing here and i'm in no competition with anybody but myself

yet almost all sentences i wrote here are correct and never proven otherwise. and that's my concern when i say shit

[AllNightDayDream]

weak.

still concerned with appearing "stronger"?
i'm the weakest man! weakest of the weak! because i don't need the "muscles" you're flexing here and i'm in no competition with anybody but myself

yet almost all sentences i wrote here are correct and never proven otherwise. and that's my concern when i say shit

More bullshit. Your mind is weak. You call me fake but all you can do is say "OMGZORZ BIG PHARMA AND FDA WANNA KILL US ALL" and I made the mistake of taking you seriously to see if you can back any of your claims. Then you say some dumb shit like all the studies are fake. If you really think staying on a diet of organic food and vitamins is going to do anything to save you from cancer, I can only pity you. And then you came out with the ad hominem, and immediately after tried to say I was in this to "win" something and get all egotistic when last page you flamed Noam for seemingly no reason other than to feed your inflated sense of "enlightenment". You called the burden of proof a useless idea, and then pretended you knew what Nizkor was. I don't usually do this, nor do I like to do this, but the moment you tried to attack me personally you gave me full license to show you just how much of a hypocritical, useless, stubborn idiot you are.

You're just a drone looking for happiness in self-delusion and shallow comfort. Not my words, yours.

[gargantuan]

weak.

still concerned with appearing "stronger"?
i'm the weakest man! weakest of the weak! because i don't need the "muscles" you're flexing here and i'm in no competition with anybody but myself

yet almost all sentences i wrote here are correct and never proven otherwise. and that's my concern when i say shit

More bullshit. Your mind is weak. You call me fake but all you can do is say "OMGZORZ BIG PHARMA AND FDA WANNA KILL US ALL" and I made the mistake of taking you seriously to see if you can back any of your claims. Then you say some dumb shit like all the studies are fake. If you really think staying on a diet of organic food and vitamins is going to do anything to save you from cancer, I can only pity you. And then you came out with the ad hominem, and immediately after tried to say I was in this to "win" something and get all egotistic when last page you flamed Noam for seemingly no reason other than to feed your inflated sense of "enlightenment". You called the burden of proof a useless idea, and then pretended you knew what Nizkor was. The moment you tried to attack me personally you gave me full license to show you just how much of a hypocritical, useless, stubborn idiot you are.

You're just a drone looking for happiness in self-delusion and shallow comfort. Not my words, yours.

now you're lying again...
i'm pretty sure that's giving you a sense of weakness too

[gargantuan]

catch up with reality now

"A group of scientists at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday sent a letter to President-elect Barack Obama's transition team pleading with him to restructure the agency, saying managers have ordered, intimidated and coerced scientists to manipulate data in violation of the law.

The nine scientists, whose names have been provided to the transition team and to some members of Congress, say the FDA is a "fundamentally broken" agency and describe it as place where honest employees committed to integrity can't act without fear of reprisal."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123142562104564381.html

[gargantuan]

" … many other FDA managers who have failed to protect the American public, who have violated laws, rules, and regulations, who have suppressed or altered scientific or technological findings and conclusions, who have abused their power and authority, and who have engaged in illegal retaliation against those who speak out, have not been held accountable and remain in place.

The letter cites three dark chapters in FDA history:

* Former chief Andrew von Eschenbach’s interference with the approval of a knee device.
* The approval of a breast cancer detection device by director of the Office of Device Evaluation Donna-Bea Tillman even though all FDA experts voted against it, following a phone call from Connecticut congressman Christopher Shays.
* And the approval by Daniel Schultz of a medical device that prevents tissue scarring against the unanimous opinion of his scientific staff."

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/ ... gines/4396

[gargantuan]

get with the program, read more, talk less:

"It is rare to find cancer, arthritis, or other degenerative diseases in cultures considered "primitive" by Western civilization. Is it because of diet? The fact that degenerative diseases appear in these cultures only when modern packaged foods and additives are introduced would certainly support that idea. Max Gerson said "Stay close to nature and its eternal laws will protect you." He considered that degenerative diseases were brought on by toxic, degraded food, water and air."

Max Gerson treated many hundreds of patients and continued to develop and refine his therapy up until his death in 1959, at the age of 78. His most famous patient was Dr. Albert Schweitzer, whom Gerson cured of advanced diabetes when Schweitzer was 75. Schweitzer returned to his African hospital, won the Nobel prize, and worked past age 90. Schweitzer wrote "I see in Dr. Gerson one of the most eminent geniuses in the history of medicine."

these dudes say the system got us sick, the system includes scientists and is ruled by FDA in US.
want more? i have tons ...

[noam]

what are we meant to say?? lol

i agree with a lot of what you've put in this thread, but there are some things you're backing which are just too unsupported to believe, ive said this IN THE THREAD but you carry on...

[gargantuan]

what are we meant to say?? lol

get with the program, read more, talk less

[cyberneticghost]

Gerson's therapy required the patient to consume a raw plant based diet and to drink an 8-ounce glass of fresh organic juices every waking hour. Coffee and castor oil enemas were among several types of prescribed enemas, and some patients were given hydrogen peroxide orally and rectally. Rectal ozone was also applied. Dietary supplements include vitamin C and iodine. The diet prohibited the drinking of water and consumption of berries and nuts, as well as use of aluminium vessels or utensils.

Gerson's therapy has not been independently tested or subjected to randomized controlled trials, and thus is illegal to market in the United States. The Gerson Institute claims that Gerson's observational studies and case reports are anecdotal evidence of the efficacy of the treatment. In his book, Gerson cites the "Results of 50 Cases"; however, the U.S. National Cancer Institute reviewed these 50 cases and was unable to find any evidence that Gerson's claims were accurate. Gerson Institute staff published a case series in the alternative medical literature; however, the series suffered from significant methodological flaws, and no independent entity has been able to reproduce the Gerson Institute's claims.

Initially, patients were required to drink several glasses of raw calf liver extract daily. Following an outbreak of Campylobacter infection linked to the Gerson clinic's extract, which sickened and killed several of the clinic's patients, carrot juice was substituted.

[gargantuan]

Gerson's therapy required the patient to consume a raw plant based diet and to drink an 8-ounce glass of fresh organic juices every waking hour. Coffee and castor oil enemas were among several types of prescribed enemas, and some patients were given hydrogen peroxide orally and rectally. Rectal ozone was also applied. Dietary supplements include vitamin C and iodine. The diet prohibited the drinking of water and consumption of berries and nuts, as well as use of aluminium vessels or utensils.

Gerson's therapy has not been independently tested or subjected to randomized controlled trials, and thus is illegal to market in the United States. The Gerson Institute claims that Gerson's observational studies and case reports are anecdotal evidence of the efficacy of the treatment. In his book, Gerson cites the "Results of 50 Cases"; however, the U.S. National Cancer Institute reviewed these 50 cases and was unable to find any evidence that Gerson's claims were accurate. Gerson Institute staff published a case series in the alternative medical literature; however, the series suffered from significant methodological flaws, and no independent entity has been able to reproduce the Gerson Institute's claims.

Initially, patients were required to drink several glasses of raw calf liver extract daily. Following an outbreak of Campylobacter infection linked to the Gerson clinic's extract, which sickened and killed several of the clinic's patients, carrot juice was substituted.

yo, i'm glad you're on of those that read!
i have no idea if your quotes are more trustworthy than anything else on these sites, but check this out:
During Gerson's career in Europe, he supervised tuberculosis sanatoria in Germany (Bielefeld, Kassel, Berlin, Munich), Austria (Vienna) and France (Ville d'Avray, near Paris). He published in European medical journals and lectured to university and medical society audiences...
so he was sort of a Science Magazine author like the ones you trust so much... until he wasn't anymore... same as it might happen with anyone else in science... today you're a hero, tomorrow you're a hoax, today you're a charlatan, tomorrow you have a monument.
i personally never took 100% side for any of these alternative guys [i'm pretty close to be convinced by the apricot seeds therapy, but not there yet] that's not the point, look at the op

in all this confusion few things are certain, like: we breathe, eat and drink poisons and the cancer rates are booming and about 15% of the people doing radio and chemo survive
so the issue is not if any one particularly of these dudes have a better cure or not, the issue is the food and the medical act is fucked up by fucking fuckers and shit will proliferate for the reasons i provided, and the supervisors of all this are accused of corruption by their own colleagues and people who try growing some healthy shit or try find a better solution are facing guns threats and prison instead of encouragements
that's what you want? keep supporting them, i don't think i'll have the regular issues with cancer considering the way i lived my life!

[hugh]

anyone who knows anything about chemistry can see from the molecule...

...that it can very easily break down into cyanide as one of the products. Pass on this one, I think.

[gargantuan]

anyone who knows anything about chemistry can see from the molecule...

...that it can very easily break down into cyanide as one of the products. Pass on this one, I think.

you don't need to know chemistry, they tell you themselves about this
i ate loads of apricot seeds when i was a little kid, they were considered a sort of popular delicacy... yummm