DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:23 pm

Kamex wrote:nicee :)

- Where do you think dubstep will go in the next couple years?
An interesting and much debated point.... this has been relevant for the last 3 years i think......

Dubstep always had a 'subbass at 140' mantra and this was so all encompassing that the term 'dubstep' meant you could mix pinch with oris jay with distance with toasty with garagey bits, with breaky bits with dubby bits and everyone was open to everything.... There was a real feeling that you knew the type of set to expect from a DJ...Deep and halfstep from Yunx, dirty from Vex'd etc.... and really it was DJs interpreting their vision of dubstep.... As more people move in things begin to get formulaic and people think they know what dubstep 'should' sound like.... the whole point originally is that NO ONE knew what it should sound like.... at the early raves outside of FWD (like the Rephlex Grime launch party) no one even knew how to dance to the music!

I suppose it is the nature of genres that people feel the need to impose restrictions...either because newcomers need a formula to follow and try to recreate, or because journalists never dig deep enough into a genre to realise how deep the sound goes.....

So where are things going now? Well really dubstep has already fragmented...it would be nice to think that the 'subbass at 140' mantra could stand strong and all the different facets could work under a loose umbrella but sadly i think this time has already passed. The problem is when a genre becomes so massive as dubstep now, and dnb 10 years ago, the only way for newcomers and established producers who aren;t as well known as Skream etc... to get recognition is to define their sound as something different..... I may be a producer with some releases and radio show in dubstep, same as many other people...but if i suddenly announced that i write 'squigglestep' then i am the only person making it and am therefore the number 1 producer. Obviously that is facetious but the example rings true if you know look at all the splintering sub-genres..... whistla, submerse, resketch, M2J & KingThing have all found a strong identity with Future Garage and for all of them the power of having a genre behind them means their reach to a fanbase is bigger than as a solo artist.... if they are not identified as dubstep then the potential audience who like 'dubstep' may be reduced but you have to hope that the genre grows with you..... Back in 2002 when garage splintered into grime, breakstep, dubstep & sublow there was loads of crossover in sounds. Dubstep happened to be the one name which seemed to succeed so the names closely identified with it (i.e Skream & Benga) grew with the genre.... it has taken around 8 years to get signed to a major and have massive commercial success. Grime obviously is strong on the streets but the major artists all seem to be happy counting the reddies by pumping out collabs with N-Dubz or making pop music.... Sublow died....

Along with this there is a growing movement who are working more in the breakbeat/rave sort of sound.... Noiz, Full Spektrum, ScanOne, Gunjack, Molez, Paradigm X... This is an extension of the breakstep sound... a sound I have always related myself to more than dubstep (although really as an artist all you do is make music rather than categorise it). I think the future breakstep/darkfloor sound is really strong although at present not as commercial as future garage (future garage could prove to be the club music of 2014 onwards). I am really pleased that the breakstep sound is
re-emerging as for a while around 2006 when halfstep took over the breaks became really unfashionable (maybe too close in aesthetic to dnb which dubstep was trying to distance itself from). The fact that Magnetic Man have put some breaks in their tracks has opened up that sort of sound to the masses...but the sound that the aforementioned producers are working in is something more complex, darker and more experimental than just throwing an Amen or Apache break on a pop tune.

Obviously there is the Hyperdub/Ikonika/Untold sound which is sonically interesting - an to me the closest thing there is to what is known as dubstep at the moment.... I think more people will jump on the UK Funky sounds (and hopefully make the genre a bit more raw and a bit less gastropub).

Not forgetting the brostep massive.....it seems to me that for a lot of kids they seem to think this IS dubstep. When this happens leave them to it. Why should we get precious with a genre name? It is just a loose description. I would prefer that people asked me what i wrote and i had to describe it rather than give a name which they will interpret as something it is not. I spent all my time between 2003 and 2006 trying to describe dubstep (and convincing people it wasn't dub music) so nothing has changed other than the name.

So where are things going?? They are shattering into a million pieces. Some sub-genres will survive and others won't but dubstep as a name will no doubt be used as journalists to describe music which conforms to a formula rather than the 'subbass at 140' being true anymore. Dubstep can now enjoy it's radio 1 playlisting for big tunes and it can be used on BBC idents and everything else and some people will do well out of it but really it will be difficult to anything wildly different under the name dubstep...much better to just make what you make and get the right DJs to play it.
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:25 pm

Kamex wrote:
- what advice would you give to someone who wants to produce dubstep?
Push boundaries, make what you like, perfect it, send it to DJs/producers who inspire you. Don't call it dubstep just let the music speak for itself.
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:38 pm

Matthew-B wrote:1. Photo of your studio/setup
2. Screenshot of your track in DAW
3. I like your drums, what are your general tips on drums? Where do you get samples, what packs? How do you write it.

:)

"Consciousness Is Exploding" fantastic tune :5:
I will post the pics up tomorrow...

As for drums... there are 2 important elements whether you are writing 2 step, halfstep, 4x4 or any other type of drum beat.

1. Density of drums - the root of every drum beat is a bass drum, snare and hi-hat. These have to be strong... The BD and Snare mark out the rhythm and the hi hat gives the movement. One of the biggest amateur mistakes is retriggering 1 hihat...this sounds v electronic and unnatural. Much better to have 4 hihats playing a rhythm. There isn't much in the high frequency range so the hi hats are really important.... some nicely pitched hats playing a good rhythm (with some hi pitched hats playing on the quarter beats) can add a real swagger and movement to your beats.

So a strong hi hat pattern and solid bass drum and snare... after this you need enough other drums to add rhythmic interest. Ghost snares and rim shots are 2 important hits to have, maybe a clap or some clicks and taps..... I always have about 5 snares in my tracks (maybe a couple of snares layered). The trick is to have enough hits but also leave enough space in your beats.... A silence can be as rhythmic as a snare in a drum pattern.

I never set myself a number of hits to have but i can't think of many tracks that have got less than 15-20 drum hits in them.

2. Variation in the drum pattern - All beats should be an 8 bar pattern even if it is just slight variation between bars.. This way you when you reach the end of the 8 bar pattern your ear is craving hearing it again. Really the last bar of the 16 bar phrase should also be different than the 8th bar so really you end up having a 16 bar drum pattern. Now the intro should probably have less drums so there is added impact when the track drops... also even if you had a 16 bar complex pattern it would begin to sound boring by the end of a track so for me EVERY 16 bars is slightly different... It may be that i drop the first bars worth of beats out apart from the first bass drum and last snare - this puts an emphasis on the bass - try doing this 32 bars into a main body..... You coudl try dropping the last bar or 2 of beats out so there is a pause at the end of a section rhythmically...... There should always be a 16 bar phrases where you chop up the beats a bit - let the virtual drummer have a bit of a solo....... so variation is vital.

On top of the variation in hits on a drum pattern i always have quite a few automated FX on my drums so these add variations as well (maybe a filter on the drums or a pitchshifter or a buffer/grain freeze etc....).

My philosophy on this is that if you you should be able to mute everything but the drums and bass and the track will still sound interesting.... So if you can just listen to the drums and bass and there is enough variation to keep things interesting then you have a solid rhythmic base for your track. If there isn't a solid rhythmic base which keeps your interest it is not dance music..... Once you have this solid base whatever you put on top (melodic, atmospheric, harmonic material) will enrich your track.


So to summarise...the right hits to make a complex beat with plenty of variation. Whenever I am asked by my students how they should start writing a track i just say 'with a bass drum'.
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by FSTZ » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:17 pm

Threnody, long time man...

first of all, thanks for all the quality radio shows over the years

also, anything new coming out from Headfukka???

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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by Nacklewicket » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:43 pm

I don't really have a question for you but just wanted to say something about what u wrote. ive been producing "dubstep" for nearly 2 years now.. back when i started i had never heard anyone in my own country even utter the word 'dubstep'.. "whats that weird music ur making" "dubstep" id answer because it was (still is?). nowdays everyone knows "perfectly" good what dubstep is and more or less everyone now seems to like it, thats cool isnt? thing is tho, when theyr speaking of dubstep theyr 90% of the time refering to this relativly new "filthy" brostep-stuff.. and i was thinking couple of days ago this is not what im producing.
on one hand i wanna keep calling my music "dubstep".. because thats what it is im doing.."140bpm subbas" and push that sound, that sound (more like mood or tone, rather than sound) that made me fall in love with this genre, and just even if just a tiny bit and probably dont even make a difference anyway, but still, try and push the term "dubstep" abit more back to its "roots"..

and! on the other hand.. i dont want to represnt what people refer to as dubstep, "the filth"..

later that day i came to the conclusion that i should just "fuck it" keep making my own shit "ill call it dubstep or bass music or shitling, it doesnt matter", im just not gonna bother with this anymore because i love making music. ill just continue what im doing,learning,developing, and see what happens and in what genre my music will fall in a year or so :)..

also i hate this thing with stereotyping: seems as either ur into the filthy business or youre a deephead.
i love a crazy heavy tune
i love a minimal subby tune
i love a mix of them both
and i loved that i could just type "dubstep" anywhere on the intrawebz and a proper sweet tune would appear every time

but i think what i see most in this music is the MOOD(whatever it be dark,evil,vile vibes or summery dubby vibes) that most tunes share somehow.. cant explain it.., but all these new FILTHY tunes, no matter how much awesomly processed filthiness business they got going on they still almost always totally lack of that mood

and thats why i was thinking a couple of days ago - this genre has just gone too wide for me. yes i love!!! variation of this genre but i say fuck this im moving on, when the genre is just overwhelmed with bad taste

no idea what i wanted to say with this but i agree so much with u

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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by paradigm_x » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:37 pm

Hey !

Nice one man, sorry not been in touch been manic. Hows the little one doing?

Shall have a read when ive got a minute (and reply to your email!)

Nice one

Ben :t:

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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:27 pm

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Little screen shot of one of my tracks... i will post more....
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:33 pm

FSTZ wrote:Threnody, long time man...

first of all, thanks for all the quality radio shows over the years

also, anything new coming out from Headfukka???
Big up mate! long time indeed....

The radio show is still on every thursday 12-2am ;)

As for Hedfukkah stuff..... that name will always be around... it is my secret name for trying out different sounds hahahaha....

To be honest I have quite a few names i put stuff under... Not In My Name, Threnody, Hedfukkah, Koncode, Disrepute At the hands of My Idol....all different facets of the sound...problem is it is too much time effectivey marketing so many names. This year i decided to semi merge Threnody & Not In My Name...my new Threnody site covers both..... Hedfukkah will always be a cheeky alias for little bits....Dsrepute is a slow burning project which i have had on the go for the last 15 years (a new EP is due out this year).... Koncode is the other main name at the moment... I am firing out a few Koncode bits which are gettng some serious hype..... The Koncode stuff is quite far removed from Threnody - very dancefloor, melodically broken, instant (but complex) and focussed on dancing (in strange ways) rather than soundscapes and vibes.....

S
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:35 pm

paradigm x wrote:Hey !

Nice one man, sorry not been in touch been manic. Hows the little one doing?

Ben :t:
Haha o worries Ben...busy times for us dads!!!! The little one is fantastic....smiling away, pulling herself up on every object going and generally being a little cutie..... how about yours?? Going well i hope!

You will have to do a new EP for UK Trends soon....
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:40 pm

Fbac wrote:
threnody wrote: treat sound with respect.
Do you think an aspiring producer given access to 2 yrs of university quality sound equipment should do his dissertation so that.
A) They end up with some finished, properly masterd tracks that there able to put on there musical cv for work in the industry.
B) They look into Tangible-musical-user-interfaces in aiding special education schools teaching abstract concepts (Justice, love)

:4:
Depends what your goal is for finishing Uni......
B will give some excellent research which could be followed up with an MA or you could apply for arts council funding to try and start your own charity actually putting the research into practice....my sister did a similar idea for her MA at Cambridge.....

A will give you, as you say, a good musical CV...which is also v important for hawking round to prospective employers..... Personally when i was at uni I used to have 3 all night studio sessions a week - literally going in at 10pm and coming out 6am.... This quiet time in the studios with no one else around meant i could start developing my sound with the equipment outside of lecture times.....
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by mIrReN » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:13 pm

legend4ry wrote:Best Q&A yet already. Its really good to hear someone who sees dance music for what it is and makes sure what they bring to the genre is their best work.
:z: & Respect!

& a question, if you get tunes send to you, would you check every tune?
"If your chest ain't rattlin it ain't happenin'" - DJ Pinch
"Move pples bodies and stimulate their minds"
we just ride the wave
Life sucks; Get used² it.

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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:51 am

mIrReN wrote:
legend4ry wrote:Best Q&A yet already. Its really good to hear someone who sees dance music for what it is and makes sure what they bring to the genre is their best work.
:z: & Respect!

& a question, if you get tunes send to you, would you check every tune?
Well i try to listen to most things... Usually if i am emailed a link i will check it...i never check tracks if i am emailed an MP3 as an attachment tho! Also i am less likely to check something if there is no accompanying message or description... I will nearly always check something if ther is a link to a Soundcloud streaming version....

I am pretty good with this and i have discovered about lots of new artists through people sending me tracks (i have even signed a few!).... I can't stand it when a new producer suddenly sends me their entire back catalogue tho - I might have time to check 1 track by a producer but i can't check 5!.... I would be less likely bother downloading a pack of 6 tracks to check it..

I get send a lot of music, i am even on the Warner Bros mailing list (although i don't play 99% of the pop urban stuff they send me -occasionally there is a big tune tho!)... Typically i will check most tunes.
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:55 am

A little picture of my studio.... it was a late night studio session where i was working on album tracks.....

Image
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by Fbac » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:21 am

threnody wrote:
Personally when i was at uni I used to have 3 all night studio sessions a week - literally going in at 10pm and coming out 6am.... This quiet time in the studios with no one else around meant i could start developing my sound with the equipment outside of lecture times.....
Thanks for the reply (: , youve put it into perspective that i should do both, as il be workin on my tracks any way and doing the project reasurch opens up more interesting paths in life. Your sister did similer reasurch, how syncronus ^^, its an exciting and rewarding field.

Jealous you got to do over nights!... i can only book 3hr slots during the day if there available. Makes for good planning tho, knowing that next week i got 3 hrs to mix down and listen to what ive done in a more flat frequency enviroment.

Thanks again, il keep my eyes out if you write a book in the future some time.
All the best to you and yours.
C
hurlingdervish wrote:The true test of an overly specific, pretentious, genre name, is how many sycophants line up to defend its bullshit when the copy-cats arrive on the scene, imitating the styles of people who had no conscience for the styles they were innovating.

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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:49 am

cartoonluv3k wrote:lovin the Q+A !! u got any news on the website yet? i know ur almost done and i just cant wait!! hahaha <3 :corndance:
Website is now up

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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by kevindeeley12 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:00 am

I gotta say, I'm not the reading kinda guy but this topic was fucking amazing. Thanks for doing this Threnody I'll be sure to rep your music :D

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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by legend4ry » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:47 am

Whats your key to long arrangements? From being a fan boy of your tracks ive noticed you tend to make tracks bordering the 10 minute mark at times.. Whats your tricks and tips for making tracks these long?
Soulstep wrote: My point is i just wanna hear more vibes
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by threnody » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:43 pm

legend4ry wrote:Whats your key to long arrangements? From being a fan boy of your tracks ive noticed you tend to make tracks bordering the 10 minute mark at times.. Whats your tricks and tips for making tracks these long?
great question Ledge.....

Well I would say that my musical heritage was very much progressive music....Early Mogwai, Godspeed You Black Emperor (and the whole Canadian post rock scene), as well as stuff like Goldie's timeless, and breakbeat music... I have always loved music that goes places and takes you on a journey....having said that Progressive Rock and Progressive house maybe aren't so much my cup of tea!! I think the term progressive is as dirty a word as intelligent when it comes to electronic music so I have always steered away from calling my music Progressive - although i guess you could label my stuff, along with Boxcutter, Paradigm X and a few others with this tag.... for me it isn't a case of being progressive it is just a case of letting the music go on a journey - not just having a start, middle and end but having different directions within one track.

So as for how to be able to make 10 min tracks - to be honest mine are almost all between 6:30 - 9:30 ... i think i may have hit the 10 min marker a couple of times.... The key to keeping tracks interesting for this amount of time is variation. You also have to enough enough density of layers to ensure there is enough stuff to have variation with....

To start off your beats should be at least an 8 bar phrase - there could be repeated bars within that but you should always have micro variation in each 8 bar phrase (fills on the 4th and 8th bars etc...)...then you should have variation between each 16 bar phrase (maybe just dropping out the last bar of a 16 bar phrase, maybe choppin ght esnare, maybe going crzy and doing a drum solo, maybe dropping the first bar out of a phrase).... a solid beat with loads of variation is the foundations for keeping interest throughout the track... You also need a big bass line which again is an 8 bar phrase - maybe different bass sounds maybe just a different pattern on the 8th bar...also have a couple of versions of your bassline....

So the rhythm section of the bass and drums need variation but more importantly you have to have enough layers that you can take out parts and put parts back in..... Drums, bass, melody, counter melody, vocal sample, harmonic layer, incidental sounds would be the minimum... If you have these parts you have enough to play around with.... Get a basic strucutre in - interesting and varied with plenty of taking the parts in and out...then work out how you can manipulate and vary each element....put the melody up the octave.... get the harmony to hold one note as well as play a whole harmonic part etc.... just treat music as composition.

Once you have a strucutre and variation think about how you can really put variation in....really mess up the melody at times and bend the rhythm, if your track is halfstep go full step or 4x4 or quarterstep...just really take all the elements and mess them up to the point where they just make logical sense...but only just.....

Once you have done all this then add as many automated FX on as possible...have distortion for a short bit on the drums or a pitchshift for 16 bars....mess everything up further and have some FX which are automated all the way through.

When you write long, progressive beats there is no formula in the same way as when you write a little dancefloor track. You have to apply creative thought to each track and each element of the track and think of it as composing a journey....but always have a strong rhythmic core which will blend the elements.....
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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by phenlight » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:31 pm

Thx great info :D:

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Re: DSF Q&A Sessions Vol. 18 - Threnody

Post by RandoRando » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:27 am

What is your opinion on the DAWs that arent as frequently used by big producers, such as FL studio which is what i use. Would you recommend to use what your confortable with, or suggest a more (professional?) DAW such as what you use, cubase, or something like pro tools.
In short, your opinion on FL. :W:
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New Track!! Getter - Fallout (RandoRando Remix)
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"WAR"
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