Threads regarding torrents and filesharing.

[wil blaze]

ok so i've only read the first page of theis thread so far, but i have to say that i feel admin are being a little bit short sighted here. I can understand that the last thing anyone wants is to promote these illegal methods of filesharing, but simply naming a program or network is, imo, very unlikely to make the problem much worse.

Depoh's thread was very interesting and helpful to me (especially as someone who just started a label) and i was enjoying the discussion there.

I dunno why nobody's thought of this, but why can't the mods simply censor certain words that they don't want out of posts. There's no need to delete a whole thread just cos on person names one of the hundereds of ways that you can download music illegally. Does anyone really believe that there are people around who want to download music but have no idea how? Do these people not know of google? we must be talking about a seriously small minoroty of users who are actually in this situation and who will actually start sharing/downloading files just cos they saw the word "slutseek" on the forum.

bring back depoh's thread i say, just with a few words blocked out. is that so hard to do?

[dubway]

bring back depoh's thread i say, just with a few words blocked out. is that so hard to do?

i hear you..
but democracy takes time..

[deapoh]

I dunno why nobody's thought of this, but why can't the mods simply censor certain words that they don't want out of posts.

Good point, mods over to you if you can make that possible.. it's pretty easy.


Mods: I'm just giving you a hard time, this aint the first nor the second I've had my thread deleted or edited etc and to be frank it's pissing me off cos all I want to do is shed light on what I see fit.

Shonky: Sorry to come across that harsh. I meant in this case Bare Dubs was not available via mp3 and I believe that people seeking souls and downloading the Bare Dubs content is going to affect sales later on which rightfully the producer should be receiving for their time and efforts.

[Jubz]

Have to say the modding on here has become far too militant of late. What will be will be you cant control this anymore.

[ufo over easy]

Have to say the modding on here has become far too militant of late. What will be will be you cant control this anymore.

... thought better of it.

but yes I agree with you.

[shonky]

Shonky: Sorry to come across that harsh. I meant in this case Bare Dubs was not available via mp3 and I believe that people seeking souls and downloading the Bare Dubs content is going to affect sales later on which rightfully the producer should be receiving for their time and efforts.

Is all cool Deaps, I'm on your side with this.

[flipw]

do tunes that only get a vinyl release end up on these sites?

seems that mp3s and cds are too easily and quickly ripped and shared.
I think poor quality vinyl rips wouldn't be so popular.

if producers only ever release on dj friendly 10/12" records then we can sink the pirates

[djshiva]

no offense intended to those who are 100% legit but

how many of the artists complaining about file sharing are using 100% legit software?

next, which do you think is worse, sharing music for no monetary gain or using illegitimate software for potential monetary gain?

yep, i do think this is a related point. i try to use and promote free and open source software, which is related to my view about filesharing.

i always get a little funny when i read threads with people complaining about this on here. as a pretty bottom-up, grassroots community, i think its odd to rely on the outdated/obsolete economic models of the mainstream music industry. we have the space between us to experiment with new ways to share music, television, film, software and new ways to attribute value to these things.

we can argue about the nuts and bolts of sharing dubs, or unreleased tracks, etc. etc. and those things *should* be hashed out, but i would love to see the arguments being made with a bit more innovative thinking rather than, as i say, relying on the crutch of a mainstream infrastructure that is all but irrelevant now. new projects like this one: https://copycan.org/ ('people club together to buy digital content that they can then copy as many times as they want') are maybe not at the stage yet where you might feel them relevant to you, but are definitely the direction i'd personally like to see things heading... at least for their effort in coming up with something new.

this is what i think was lost from the thread deletion (and all along i was wondering why the first post wasn't just edited instead of the thread deleted)...the creative ideas for dealing with the filesharing issue. and thank you for bringing up the point that we are all relying on an industry model that has nothing to do with us, really. nice one!

[deapoh]

do tunes that only get a vinyl release end up on these sites?

Yes, certain groups rip them and out them on private FTPs which other rippers have access to. Then some of those rippers give to friends and they end up on p2p sites. If the quality is not good then another group can "nuke" the file and rip it themselves. The more rips a group has the more access and "leech" they have on that FTP. It'll never stop.

[djshiva]

I think that unfortunately some people are missing the point here that while you are right in that what people have said is being censored or removed, which is not freedom of speech at all, this place isnt our "free country", in effect this place belongs to the people who run it, and if they banned the word "fridge", it wouldnt make sense either, but they are the authorities and if its what they say then unfortunately I dont think anyone really has a leg to stand on.

Im sure the admin agree whole heartedly with how you feel especially Deapoh, but they want to try to remove this forum from those kind of problems, or something along those lines.

this is actually something i was addressing in previous posts. there is the actual ownership of the forum by dubway and the moderators he has chosen to run tings. and then there are thousands of people engaging in discussion on the forum. so money/power trumps all everytime, and thousands of people's opinions and contributions to the community become null and void?

i realize dubway could just pull his dough and the forum could die like that, but since we are all autonomous creatures, we would just adapt and move to a different place. so then...is it the forum itself that is keeping the community afloat? or is it the thousands of individuals that makes the forum an actual community? are they symbiotic? or simply mutually beneficial?

and if the role of the individuals who compose the community plays a critical part in the survival of the forum as a vital resource, than the "ownership" of the forum becomes a question of "what do you value more?"

so to boil this all down to its essense: i believe, while enabled by the actual software/servers (paid for by an industrious individual) that compose "the forum", this community has grown to a point where it is not necessarily bound only to the rules it had no part in creating, and that an ever-evolving contribution (from healthy debate to polls to suggestions) to the rule structure by the community itself is critical for its survival as a friendly AND orderly "place".

tyrannies don't generally keep people in line. they just breed resentment and eventually cause rifts.

there ya have my philosophy. flame away.

[ufo over easy]

this place isnt our "free country", in effect this place belongs to the people who run it, and if they banned the word "fridge", it wouldnt make sense either, but they are the authorities and if its what they say then unfortunately I dont think anyone really has a leg to stand on.

the admin aren't out to be stnuc though, and the only way we can let them know we don't agree with their decisions is to tell them. it's not a democracy but it's not a fascist regime either - people are allowed to speak their minds.

[dj slums]

I think that unfortunately some people are missing the point here that while you are right in that what people have said is being censored or removed, which is not freedom of speech at all, this place isnt our "free country", in effect this place belongs to the people who run it, and if they banned the word "fridge", it wouldnt make sense either, but they are the authorities and if its what they say then unfortunately I dont think anyone really has a leg to stand on.

Im sure the admin agree whole heartedly with how you feel especially Deapoh, but they want to try to remove this forum from those kind of problems, or something along those lines.

this is actually something i was addressing in previous posts. there is the actual ownership of the forum by dubway and the moderators he has chosen to run tings. and then there are thousands of people engaging in discussion on the forum. so money/power trumps all everytime, and thousands of people's opinions and contributions to the community become null and void?

i realize dubway could just pull his dough and the forum could die like that, but since we are all autonomous creatures, we would just adapt and move to a different place. so then...is it the forum itself that is keeping the community afloat? or is it the thousands of individuals that makes the forum an actual community? are they symbiotic? or simply mutually beneficial?

and if the role of the individuals who compose the community plays a critical part in the survival of the forum as a vital resource, than the "ownership" of the forum becomes a question of "what do you value more?"

so to boil this all down to its essense: i believe, while enabled by the actual software/servers (paid for by an industrious individual) that compose "the forum", this community has grown to a point where it is not necessarily bound only to the rules it had no part in creating, and that an ever-evolving contribution (from healthy debate to polls to suggestions) to the rule structure by the community itself is critical for its survival as a friendly AND orderly "place".

tyrannies don't generally keep people in line. they just breed resentment and eventually cause rifts.

there ya have my philosophy. flame away.

woah. this threads given me a nosebleed.

[dusty]

Chill on the whole deletion thing, after all, the mods only got rid of it in the first place in an effort to stop more people finding out how to steal music! All on the same side here.

[dirty]

Have to say the modding on here has become far too militant of late. What will be will be you cant control this anymore.

You should see the m-audio torq forum, u literally can't say anything then the mods go postal on u!

I didn't see the original thread so I'd like to read it.

I love how there seems to be this attitude that if its on the internet then i'll get it for free. the internet is a market place for certain companies such as baredubs, so please support them and buy the music.

Discussions are important on this subject to broaden attitudes.

[Littlefoot]

if it wasnt for sharing software I wouldnt goto all dubstep raves in Notts right now or buy any dubs to be honest.

I own a shit tonne of records for a just turned 20 year old and I owe a lot to filesharing.

There is a big difference between someone hungry to check out new music with not much cash, and someone who is greedy and a stingeybastard.

[boomnoise]

this place isnt our "free country", in effect this place belongs to the people who run it, and if they banned the word "fridge", it wouldnt make sense either, but they are the authorities and if its what they say then unfortunately I dont think anyone really has a leg to stand on.

the admin aren't out to be stnuc though, and the only way we can let them know we don't agree with their decisions is to tell them. it's not a democracy but it's not a fascist regime either - people are allowed to speak their minds.

we're not at all and i would encourage discourse about moderation. it's your forum after all. this said some rules have to be put of place for what the moderation team deem to be the greater good. but personally as a mod i take on board what people say to me and post on here. moderation decisions aren't taken lightly and we revise the forum rules all the time.

don't know how many of you have looked at them but we have em

my personal policy is to be reflexive and responsive. we've had to change a lot recently as the forum has grown.

everything in moderation eh

[feasible_weasel]

everybody downloads music
most people dont have a record deck anymore,so i can see why ppl would get copies of the vinyl.
but downloading bare albums is
we need labels like planet mu..and downloading an album from them is taking away from the scene. less people will make music,if they cant get money to support their hobby. the equipment needed to make this music is costly.
also...people using cracked/downloaded software thats like stealings mans car and riding around picking up taxi fares.

[dirty]

if it wasnt for sharing software I wouldnt goto all dubstep raves in Notts right now or buy any dubs to be honest.

I own a shit tonne of records for a just turned 20 year old and I owe a lot to filesharing.

There is a big difference between someone hungry to check out new music with not much cash, and someone who is greedy and a stingeybastard.

I can understand that if you were downloading the new Beyonce album but your not, your stealing music from people in a small scene that in some cases are on this forum!

If you want to hear dubstep as a sound your better off listening to the radio or downloading mixes, fuck if you want to hear the whole track go to myspace or virb!!!

If your cool with that, thats up to you.

Clearly you are not "hungry to check out new music"

You are "greedy and a stingeybastard"

[shonky]

It's a bit of a pain in myspace to listen to tunes one after the other though.

I know soundclick have a radio show option where you can add tunes from other people and then have them as an ongoing stream - would of course mean that people need to have soundclick sites but that might be a better option for the cash strapped listener.

I d/l'd quite a few bits myself (don't any more) but have generally bought the tunes on vinyl where and when I could find them afterwards, but then I'm such a luddite I don't even buy cd's

[dirty]

Yeah reading that just annoyed me because was trying to justify it when there are clearly other ways to find a sound, and besides you need to know what u are looking for when downloading so he clearly knew what artist to download!

Anyway bacon sandwich time