American kru... Who you support for President?(UK kru?)

[misk]

its all mock elections for mock leaders

if you think the people on tv have any power you should think again

pretty much. thats why i'm more interested in learning how to grow my own food than participating in games made for grown-up children.

[echo wanderer]

I think I got lucky with Bill Clinton twice though.My first presidential vote AND I got the person I wanted??It sure left a pretty image in my head of the power of the constituents.Then Bush had to come and fuck it all up!!

2 False flag terror strikes by our own Gov't (First WTC and OKC Murrah Building were both inside jobs) on his watch, he completely made a fool of himself and his wife when she kept him around...

Kosovo, Iraq( daily bombings, lest we forget...), Somalia, Rowanda...

yea, real good President.

if we wouldn't have lost the congress, we'd never have balanced the budget either. he is part of the war machine... do a youtube search for "CFR controls the media" or click HERE: http://youtube.com/watch?v=JPlvdSQ6cAM AND WATCH!

Who is in Council on Foreign Relations?

I am very aware of what went on during the Clinton Administration.But he was most certainly better than what we had before and what we have now.The Kosovo thing pissed me off yes.But the UN had a lot to do with that too,as they simply sat there while the whole genocide was being filmed and broadcast by Serbian television.The Rwanda thing,honestly..there really wasn't much Clinton could do to improve that situation.Chances are it would have created a much more invoved war that Africa really doesn't need.

As for the cheating thing?Who gives a shit.That was just media circus attention.If Bush did it,it would happen all over again.

Oh,and by the way.He American budget is no where near balanced.And it hasn't been for decades.

But of course,the things you mention are the most common and public views on the Clinton Admin.,mainly declared by the right wing for the sake of disillusioning young leftists who seem to be left for the sake of being left,or left because ""it's cool..

I'd be very curious as to what your age is.You strike me as pretty young - intelligent - but young,considering that you seem to believe right-wing propaganda that is disguised as leftist realism.As far as I can tell,you've been a member on this forum for a mere 24 hours and you are already implying that people on here are uninformed(on a few subjects now)?You'd be surprised at who is actually on this forum and what they know.Most of it via life experience,as well as education and activism.

Tsk,tsk.From what I see,you only came on to this forum to post for a "friend" who was banned from here.

So you like conspiracy theories,do ya?Personally,I think maybe you are that friend.I do remember there was someone who was banned not too long ago...



And...you kinda post like him too.

Calling out people's knowledge and view points in an attempt to look like "the smartest boy in the whole wide world!".

And to Echo Wanderer, it seems as though you forget which party freed the slaves and ended wars for the last 200 or so years before 1994... a strict constructionist(i.e. libertarian constitutionalist) truly believes that if you just follow the constitution, everyone will be free. Including gay people.

I know my history man.It was actually the Republican party who forced Lincoln into freeing the slaves.What good did it do?It freed some of them,but Lincoln and those who were higher in the economic tier of the colonies still had slaves for a number of years despite the Emancipation Proclamation.The oppression still exists today in a much milder form called "project housing","racial quotas in the workplace",and "glass ceilings".

The Republicans used to be the good guys in this country and the Democrats the guys in black hats.But this isn't 200+ years ago.This is 2007.Somewhere along the line,the Republicans lost thier way due to greed,religion,and power(the worst).The old libertarians are gone and the new align "liberty" with "democratic process",which coincidentally,doesn't mean "Democrat".

BTW,Lenny Bruce was as spot on about people as Richard Pryor and George Carlin.I'd have to throw Chappelle in there too.

Calling people "asshats":

definitely not ron paul.

ok then asshat, how about you step up and tell us what you DO support?

I also support and have donated the Maximum to Dennis Kucinich... ideally exact opposite of Ron Paul...

dennis kucinich is cool. he seems to be the least of all evils. i dunno. i worked helping w/ some campaigning and at a polling place in 2000 and 2004 and i'm pretty disillusioned by the entire voting system. if there was a viable independent (non-libertarian) choice i would probably go for them.

and keep name-calling out of threads if you want to keep them serious, m'k?

Passionately defending a right wing televangelist:

Billy Graham says: You better well motherfuckin believe, motherfucka! Jesus made gravity! Says right here in the manual, foureyes! Now give me the money and fuck off!

eh, this man is dying of cancer, and though he's a pretty well-known preacher, he's not a Jerry Falwell type that ran around talking down gays, etc... he practices/practiced what he preaches. I dunno, I feel as though maybe this guy should be hands off.

That being said now... GAME ON.

A solid belief that the voting system actually works(more Repubican propaganda they feed to young liberal idealists):

the shitty part about people like kucinich and ron paul: they will never win, because the media basically chooses who to televise and who to support.

Anyways - our whole voting system is fucked. I vote to implement run-off voting.

That concept is unacceptable. That level of apathy is UNacceptable. The only reason they won't win is because people won't vote for them. If people get up and go out and vote for the best candidate, that candidate will WIN.

I suggest that you heavily Arm yourselves in the event that Guiliani is elected or appointed in ANOTHER Coup! The shit will definitely hit the fan, and they'll be sorry they didn't renew the assault weapons ban

Hmm...

It seems we have a mystery here.Is "NoMoreComaStep" actually "Auralassassin" using a secret pen name?Or is he a spy in the Ninja Hideout?

Better get these guys on the job!

[echo wanderer]

i don't believe its voter apathy and cynicism that gave us the system we have

capitalism did

Yup.

[nomorecomastep]

Actually Echo... I came here to post because I am running a label with someone who was banned from here, and also someone who ISN'T banned from here: CLAW. So that part of your statement is false.

Second of all, I'm not a leftist--I'm a CONSTITUTIONALIST. If you don't agree that the CONSTITUTION is the supreme law of this land, you change it--you don't ignore the thing.

The asshat comment was probably out of line. Sorry for that--it wasn't justified, nor was the comment it was in response to. It was the way he said it, not WHAT he said. His comment was a shot at me, and I took it fairly personally. I posted some Ron Paul videos and asked who people supported--I didn't say he was the guy I was voting for, just posted the videos for people to see. If you look at my YOUTUBE account, you will see that I've actually only uploaded 2 videos on youtube...

1 of them is a MUSIC VIDEO for the label, and the other one is a video calling out CBS for ignoring Dennis Kucinich in a debate, and deleting every poll that he is winning in a landslide. Hardly far right propaganda. It was a video calling out the media for ignoring viable candidates. So you may just be wrong. Also, talking about Right Wing ideas and discussing them from that point of view shouldn't be seen as ADVOCACY for those issues... if you want a Left Wing circle jerk, why not just say so, man? It's no fun to discuss politics when everyone agrees--so I took the least popular opinion and was arguing for the other side.

I realize that you have an invested interest, and so you can't open your mind and even CONSIDER the other side--I can. Hell, if you look at my Myspace page I have 3 Presidential Candidates in my top 10... and Ralph Nadar, and several other less notable leaders. I advocate discussion of positions--not the positions themselves.


Lastly,

When you work for 5 months out of the year to pay INCOME TAXES, and you have NO CHOICE in the matter, you are a SLAVE. That is NOT Freedom. It's slavery. For National Healthcare to work, you have to tax people. Period. That means that you have to take money from me and give it to someone else.

That's theft. What if I don't want to pay money to support the war, national healthcare, etc?

I shouldn't have to do so--if I don't have the FREEDOM to decide to opt out of that bullshit, social security(which I'll never be able to collect, etc)--then what good is Democracy?

Wanna know what a Dennis Kucinich presidency with a complacent congress will look like? USSR, CUBA, VENEZUELA(NOW!)

Hugo Chavez is taking over corporations and nationalizing them. If you think that the medical industry is going to take financial risks to create medicines and new products when the threat of the government coming in and stealing the fruits of that labor is almost a certainty, you are crazy. That's not propaganda, that's fact. Look at history--Name one Socialist state that is doing well right now... now name ONE socialist state that lasted more than 100 years. Nuff said.

Freedom died in 1913 when the IRS and the Federal Reserve were illegally thrust upon us by a vote of 3-0 in the senate... in case you are wondering, those numbers ARE correct--no quorum present. Not a single voice of dissent.

Since 1913 the value of our dollar is 4 cents, compared to the dollar of 1913 when it was backed with Gold.

Capitalism also brought you such things as the clothes on our backs, record labels, 90% of the websites you view, ALL television, ALL movies, MOST books... come to think of it, if it costs money, that's what capitalism brought you.

Again, it's not the system of Capitalism that is flawed, it's the implementation of Capitalism. Constitutional government and real Republicanism doesn't look anything like the shit parading around as Republicanism today. You think this nation was meant to be an EMPIRE?

I don't think I'm smarter or better than anyone, though it may seem that way because I present facts as facts, and not as opinions and possibilities. I'm throwing them out there and you are free to disagree--but saying "how old are you, probably young judging by what you are saying..."

I have a Masters Degree in Philosophy, and am currently working on a Masters Degree in Peace Studies(Conflict Resolution) with an Emphasis on Middle Eastern Foreign Policy... there is no Bachelors program for Peace Studies though, so I went the Political Science route. If that tells you anything, consider how long it takes to acquire that kind of Resume and you can guess that I'm not as young as you thought at first.

Because I subscribe to no particular doctrine or political philosophy as a whole, you may confuse me as Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian, etc... one thing you will NEVER accuse me of being, is a STATIST.

On Billy Graham... he's dying of cancer. Cancer affects a LOT of people I know, and it's amazing to me how few of these supposedly accepting Peace Advocates are the first to trash Christianity, but they won't touch Islam. Why not? I would say that they're approaching the same numbers of bodies in the name of their Messiah...

Ok enough to you... now to Municiple:

Im a member of the CFR. I speak there regularly on issues related to China.

Thanks for admitting this, as a speaker for CFR, could you please justify a few things for me, perhaps? Namely...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JPlvdSQ6cAM

to create a world system of control in private hands, able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole

CFR membership -- THE ruling establishment of the United States

Media members of the CFR?

Tom Brokaw
Dan Rather
Barbera Walters
Jim Lehrer
William F Buckly

RUPPERT MURDOCH!



But who else?

Michael Eisner of Disney...
Thomas Murphy of ABC...
AOL
Time Warner...

are you getting the point?

The sphere of influence here?

So the question, is why would people from Opposite political leanings all be a part of this organization? It's simple... they aren't from opposite leanings at all...

Clinton, Bush, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, etc etc etc...

Who wasn't a member of CFR?

Oh yea.. Kennedy. He also tried to get rid of the Federal Reserve--he died less than 2 weeks later... his "assassin" was also assassinated. There are TWO official stories of this HIT on Kennedy, both contradict one another, both are OFFICIAL and BOTH claim the other was wrong... This isn't some conspiracy... the STATED purpose of CFR is to Destroy national boundaries and install one world government... and has been called by Reagan and Bush Sr. THE NEW WORLD ORDER in their speeches.

In the last Democratic debate you watched 3 of the Democratic front runners stand up and say that they couldn't promise to have us out of Iraq within 8 years!

If you think voting for Obama, Clinton or Edwards will end Iraq, you are mistaken. Hillary is preparing for war with Iran--and the Democrats are OWNED by AIPAC(American Israeli Political Action Committee)... why do you think they don't advocate for a free Palestine?

In final summation:

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com

Watch this movie. It streams on the page. Mindblowing.

[thesynthesist]

Im a memeber of the CFR. I speak there regularly on issues related to China.

I vote and I agree that my vote is personal. Having lived in China for a number of years and known many democracy activists there, I continue to value my right to vote. Perhaps I am a pawn, but I am certainly not apathetic.

If you are truly a member of the CFR, then you're a technocrat my friend.

You might want to get your name off that list.

Got to agree with my longwinded friend, No Coma here, that pulling the blinders on doesnt abdicate responsibility. How do you respond to the people who point out the anti-americanism at the CFR? Whats your stake in the NWO?

Or maybe we should be asking, WTF is a CFR member doing on dubstepforum.com???

[echo wanderer]

Well..gee.

That wasn't a belittling rant now was it?

And quite a personal attack at that.

Okay.Fair enough.

Who cares what degrees you have or how much you want to brag that you've put some money into the system.In the end it don't mean squat if you base you entire life around "the solid facts".Most books people spend thousands of dollars on a year are filled with government issued and government controlled "facts".My dad's got his PhD. in economics and has been teaching for almost 35 years,and half the time,my opinions in our debates make more sense to him than his own yearly thesis.

It doesn't always take a higher education to know what goes on around you.And in a lot of ways,it will blind you to it.Look at all the upper middle class/rich kids that go based on caste alone?My sister has 4 degrees in math and sciences and had to work her ass off to get them,where these kids just slide on in and get degrees because of money and/or alumni status.

Unfortunately,I couldn't afford to finish college.I had to go into a trade instead.Does that make me a lesser person,not allowed to have a free speaking mind?Or to even have it respected?Obviously you don't.

I did say you are intelligent.And I never doubted that once.Yet you come back with insult.Funny part is,is that you called me out,not the other way around.Claimed I didn't know my history.Black history IS my history,and a lot of what YOU have learned in school is the product of YOUR Constitution:Freedom of speech and the press also means the freedom to cover it up.Even with all your degrees,you will NEVER know it all.No matter how much you think you do.

My attitude problem with you only came out after I saw you running around the forum basically calling people stupid in a thinly veiled cryptic way,including me.Just like calling Showguns an "asshat" was you starting personal attacks.He simply made his comment.I personally thought it was more a shot at Ron Paul,not at you.You seem think most of us here aren't very intelligent or informed by your approach.If you don't agree with something,you back it up with what you read in a book.Then the ones that call you on something,you do a complete flip and start being all nice.Hmm.Sad really.Maybe you aren't as smart as you think?Maybe you can accept the fact that you might be wrong once in a while?

And I love statements like this:"I don't think I'm smarter or better than anyone, though it may seem that way because I present facts as facts, and not as opinions and possibilities."

All animals are created equal,but some animals are better than other animals.

Ha!If everything else being said here is only an opinion or possibility,and you have all "the facts",then why even take the time to respond?If you have all the "right" answers,then are you trying to "educate" us or something?Facts you can change.A person's opinion you cannot.

Why do I get this unnerving feeling that you are one of the aforementioned rich kids who mom and dad worked thier asses off give him everything he wanted,took a poly-sci course and decided to challenge the world in a shallow attempt not look like a snot nose little brat?I'm not saying you are,but there sure are a lot of people out there that sound just like you with that same background.

Oh..and another thing.Why ARE you posting on a forum that banned your good buddy?If you were my friend,I'd kick you in the teeth for that.That's like going back to a club that blacklists your girlfriend.

But that's just my opinion.Sorry if it doesn't match the data in your overpriced college textbooks.

To be brutally honest,it's people of your calibre that I find most distasteful.It is people like you who believe in an outdated 220 year old piece of paper that is need of a serious overhaul is the "only true road to freedom".You may not choose to be this "slave" you rambled on pointlessly about(it's common knowledge to most of us here in the US that we are),but with your pedigree,you have haphazzardly become part of the machine,therefore have no room to complain.It is people like you that keep minorities oppressed in this country(save a token few)by flaunting an education that you know most minorities will never have,thus forcing them into poverty as they will never get the cushy,overpaid jobs that you can.And as for your ingnorance regarding how open my mind is,I personally believe that my mind is far more open than yours(as are most of the people on this froum),as it hasn't been closed by the the histories of secret societies that omit the real truth.Put the book down once in a while.There is a whole fucked up world out there you can learn from.

And now I am done with you.

In the words of the mighty Fez:

"Good day sir!I said 'Good day!'"

[sines]

whats this voting you speak of?

[parson]

easy now, municiple is good ppl

[FSTZ]

I need to put my 2 cents into this thread

if you think that Ron Paul will abolish the IRS, you are blind to the historical fact that: all politicians make empty promises just to get elected.

Ron Pauls' promise is just an attempt to boost his popularity because he is a major longshot.

the politicians always promise change and then do not deliver, whether republican democrat or whatever

they all lie

[nomorecomastep]

Where to begin... I was pointing out the education I have to give you a sense of how old I'd have to be to have obtained that education. The I went on to tell you specifically what that education was in, so that you'd know that the past 6 years of my life have been spent studying pretty much exactly these subjects.

I was attempting to show you what ground I felt I was coming from. It doesn't matter how you took the guys comment--He made it to me, and I either took it the wrong way(as I may or may not have, in either case, I responded poorly as I've admitted. you won't let it go though and keep citing it)

My parents didn't pay for college for me. I had to work to pay for it, and will be paying for it for years to come. I am the first college graduate, and indeed the first HIGH SCHOOL graduate in my family, so it's not the Caste system, but I see what you are getting at, and I agree that this may be the case with some people. I'm not sure if you're trying to make me feel guilty or privleged or what--but in either case, it sucks you weren't able to afford college. I assure you it's not capitalism that made it impossible to afford--it was the Fiat currency system devaluing money and inflating the economy that did it. That's the thing that advocate of socialism don't seem to understand. They have socialized medicine in other countries... those countries have higher unemployment rates, rediculous taxes, authoritarian governments(again, looking at the UK kru and the camera on every corner!)

I happen to think the solution is the constitution. I think that Liberty is more important than Government healthcare. And in the 60's and 70's in America, how often did you hear about people unable to afford Healthcare? I can answer that for you--not because I don't think you don't know, but because I happen to know--you didn't hear about it. It wasn't a problem back then, because Doctors didn't have insurance companies to deal with on that level. They also didn't have LAWSUITS that they had to insure themselves against.

It didn't take a Higher education for me to learn what was going on around me. It took a higher education for people to respect my opinions about the world that was going on around me and then PAY ME to teach their college aged kids what is going on around them.

Black history is your history. Ok. I can accept that. Should I pay you reparations for that? Is that what you're getting at here?

I come from Scotch Irish immigrants, who came to this country both before and AFTER slavery--having been essentially SLAVES to England at that point--then they came to America... I'm sure if you know history, you know that they suffered a pretty nasty life once they got here too. Beaten, raped, living in tenements in NY and Boston... "No Irish Need Apply" etc...

Don't forget that your History is a shared history with more than just Black people. I'm not trying to equate the treatment of black slaves here, simply stating that it wasn't exactly a bed of roses for my family either--and if anything, I'm proud of how far we've come since then. I can't tell you the last time that I heard an Irishman complaining about his treatment as few as a hundred years ago, so I hope you're not playing the race card here... again, I may have totally misunderstood what you were getting at here.

I respect your opinions, and if you have facts to back them up, then I'll respect your facts. What I'm more interested in than your opinion however is your PH.D. father who is the Dr. of Economics and what his thoughts on Socialism and it's impact on our economy are.

My education and my life don't exist in an echo chamber--I'm not blind to what is happening due to my education. In fact, most educated college professors are pretty left leaning, not centrists and definitely not constitutionalists for the most part.

I could go point by point but I won't, because it's not going to do me any good. You don't care, and I'm increasingly agreeing with you on that one.

I will just close by saying, I live in the neighborhood of TEMPLE university--I may be the only white guy in my neighborhood, and the school isn't exactly the bastion of white either... other notables from here include Bill Cosby...

you listed these family members who have multiple degrees, but then said that minorities don't have the same opportunity... maybe you aren't the guy to be singing this tune, buddy. And my pedigree? lol. you Fail. I'm poor white trash, from poor white trash, from the midwest, from a house that cost like 45 grand, from parents that have never made more than 50,000 dollars a year COMBINED. We struggled to eat half the time, so I'm personally insulted by this insinuation.

And I don't hold anyone back. I'm a Libertarian... you know what that means, right?

That means that I believe I am responsible for MYSELF and MY FAMILY and MY ACTIONS and MY LIFE. I am not responsible for yours. You went into a trade because you had to right? Did you then save money for college? Did you then invest your money for the future? Did you then do ANYTHING AT ALL other than sit and feel sorry for yourself?

I still hold 2 jobs... 1 at a college and 1 at a fucking gas station man, because I can't afford to pay for my education and my insurance and my car and my house... I don't fucking complain about it, and I'm investing my money for the future.

So remember... next time you eat a Chipotle burrito, you're putting money in my pocket.



And in regards to posting on a site my friend was banned from...

he runs a label with myself and another guy. I am here to promote the label, promote the producers, promote the dj's, promote the genre... it's in his interests as well as mine and as well as Claw's interests(and The SubDivision who will be dropping the tune on the label soon, btw... everyone buy it ) that I promote music.

I did so... I posted a mix, which you then did me a HUGE favor by snapping a screenshot of and posting in another forum... which I couldn't do without it being deleted! That mix contains music by Claw and several forum producers and some who don't post here. That is in the interests of myself, him, and claw, as well as every producer in that mix, and the mixes to come.

I don't care if him and Seckle or Him and Dubway had/have/never had/may have had/may have imagined some beef. Last I checked, he got banned for defending Deapoh when Rinse.fm was talking about SUING him for hosting Barefiles(a pirate radio suing. HAH.)

So if you think he was wrong for defending Deapoh, maybe you should go hash that out in the Barefiles appreciation thread I posted in the Dubstep main forum. Why I post here is immaterial and between us anyway.

Well..gee.

That wasn't a belittling rant now was it?

And quite a personal attack at that.

Okay.Fair enough.

Who cares what degrees you have or how much you want to brag that you've put some money into the system.In the end it don't mean squat if you base you entire life around "the solid facts".Most books people spend thousands of dollars on a year are filled with government issued and government controlled "facts".My dad's got his PhD. in economics and has been teaching for almost 35 years,and half the time,my opinions in our debates make more sense to him than his own yearly thesis.

It doesn't always take a higher education to know what goes on around you.And in a lot of ways,it will blind you to it.Look at all the upper middle class/rich kids that go based on caste alone?My sister has 4 degrees in math and sciences and had to work her ass off to get them,where these kids just slide on in and get degrees because of money and/or alumni status.

Unfortunately,I couldn't afford to finish college.I had to go into a trade instead.Does that make me a lesser person,not allowed to have a free speaking mind?Or to even have it respected?Obviously you don't.

I did say you are intelligent.And I never doubted that once.Yet you come back with insult.Funny part is,is that you called me out,not the other way around.Claimed I didn't know my history.Black history IS my history,and a lot of what YOU have learned in school is the product of YOUR Constitution:Freedom of speech and the press also means the freedom to cover it up.Even with all your degrees,you will NEVER know it all.No matter how much you think you do.

My attitude problem with you only came out after I saw you running around the forum basically calling people stupid in a thinly veiled cryptic way,including me.Just like calling Showguns an "asshat" was you starting personal attacks.He simply made his comment.I personally thought it was more a shot at Ron Paul,not at you.You seem think most of us here aren't very intelligent or informed by your approach.If you don't agree with something,you back it up with what you read in a book.Then the ones that call you on something,you do a complete flip and start being all nice.Hmm.Sad really.Maybe you aren't as smart as you think?Maybe you can accept the fact that you might be wrong once in a while?

And I love statements like this:"I don't think I'm smarter or better than anyone, though it may seem that way because I present facts as facts, and not as opinions and possibilities."

All animals are created equal,but some animals are better than other animals.

Ha!If everything else being said here is only an opinion or possibility,and you have all "the facts",then why even take the time to respond?If you have all the "right" answers,then are you trying to "educate" us or something?Facts you can change.A person's opinion you cannot.

Why do I get this unnerving feeling that you are one of the aforementioned rich kids who mom and dad worked thier asses off give him everything he wanted,took a poly-sci course and decided to challenge the world in a shallow attempt not look like a snot nose little brat?I'm not saying you are,but there sure are a lot of people out there that sound just like you with that same background.

Oh..and another thing.Why ARE you posting on a forum that banned your good buddy?If you were my friend,I'd kick you in the teeth for that.That's like going back to a club that blacklists your girlfriend.

But that's just my opinion.Sorry if it doesn't match the data in your overpriced college textbooks.

To be brutally honest,it's people of your calibre that I find most distasteful.It is people like you who believe in an outdated 220 year old piece of paper that is need of a serious overhaul is the "only true road to freedom".You may not choose to be this "slave" you rambled on pointlessly about(it's common knowledge to most of us here in the US that we are),but with your pedigree,you have haphazzardly become part of the machine,therefore have no room to complain.It is people like you that keep minorities oppressed in this country(save a token few)by flaunting an education that you know most minorities will never have,thus forcing them into poverty as they will never get the cushy,overpaid jobs that you can.And as for your ingnorance regarding how open my mind is,I personally believe that my mind is far more open than yours(as are most of the people on this froum),as it hasn't been closed by the the histories of secret societies that omit the real truth.Put the book down once in a while.There is a whole fucked up world out there you can learn from.

And now I am done with you.

In the words of the mighty Fez:

"Good day sir!I said 'Good day!'"

[nomorecomastep]

Ron Paul has never voted to raise taxes or expand the scope of Government. His sole purpose, and his voting record back this up, is to DECREASE the scope of Government. There are 2 people I trust entirely when they say they will do something... Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul.

I don't blindly trust them, either. I look at the record and the facts surrounding that record.

Situation: a bill comes before congress that proposes an increase in spending(doesn't matter what for really)

Ron Paul will look at the constitution. If the constitution says that the Federal Government is responsible--he votes yes.

If not, he votes no. No exceptions. PERIOD. He NEVER has voted for a spending increase. In fact, he usually offers an Amendment that either KILLS the bill, or that would cut spending another way. He has NEVER voted for an unbalanced budget. EVER.

He votes regularly against his own party.

I could go on and on... he's the real deal. Dennis Kucinich is the same way, but opposite politics. In short, you can trust those two because they take very unpopular positions when their career is on the line, they fight and they are almost always proven to be right.

If you disagree with Ron Paul, don't vote for him. But if you agree with him, please vote for him. Don't allow apathy or distrust of the Government to fuck you out of a vote. If they are going to steal it, make them steal it.

Both have promised to NEVER use a presidential signing statement. Both would overturn the patriot act. Both would get us out of NATO, NAFTA, WTO, CAFTA, etc... which destroy workers rights... signed by clinton, supported by Hillary and Obama... surely the socialists here can agree that we need to get out of those.


here's what we call a softball question:

TRUE OR FALSE... The purpose of politics as we know it in America and in the MEDIA is designed to KEEP PEOPLE FROM VOTING? If you don't vote, they win. They might win either way--but they DEFINITELY win if you don't vote.


And one last thing to Echo Wanderer... you said the Constitution is a 220 year old out dated document that needs to be replaced... replace it then. ABOLISH IT. How are you going to do that now that Clinton disarmed the people after OKC Bombing? If you don't like the Constitution, you CHANGE it. You don't just ignore the laws--you seek to change them peacefully... when that doesn't work, you take the assault weapons which the constitution says you can have and you run up on the White House lawn. Wanna know how I know this is the way it's supposed to be done? Simple... the founding fathers of the Nation said so:

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is in the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.

All of you who are saying that we should just give up and not vote, or disarm and not fight are falling right into the trap. They called you on that over 200 years ago... now don't you feel crunchy?

Again, if it's outdated, update it. You don't cut of your arm to offend your hand though.

[pk-]

I think I got lucky with Bill Clinton twice though.My first presidential vote AND I got the person I wanted??It sure left a pretty image in my head of the power of the constituents.Then Bush had to come and fuck it all up!!

2 False flag terror strikes by our own Gov't (First WTC and OKC Murrah Building were both inside jobs) on his watch, he completely made a fool of himself and his wife when she kept him around...

Kosovo, Iraq( daily bombings, lest we forget...), Somalia, Rowanda...

yea, real good President.

if we wouldn't have lost the congress, we'd never have balanced the budget either. he is part of the war machine... do a youtube search for "CFR controls the media" or click HERE: http://youtube.com/watch?v=JPlvdSQ6cAM AND WATCH!

Who is in Council on Foreign Relations?

I am very aware of what went on during the Clinton Administration.But he was most certainly better than what we had before and what we have now.The Kosovo thing pissed me off yes.But the UN had a lot to do with that too,as they simply sat there while the whole genocide was being filmed and broadcast by Serbian television.The Rwanda thing,honestly..there really wasn't much Clinton could do to improve that situation.Chances are it would have created a much more invoved war that Africa really doesn't need.

As for the cheating thing?Who gives a shit.That was just media circus attention.If Bush did it,it would happen all over again.

Oh,and by the way.He American budget is no where near balanced.And it hasn't been for decades.

But of course,the things you mention are the most common and public views on the Clinton Admin.,mainly declared by the right wing for the sake of disillusioning young leftists who seem to be left for the sake of being left,or left because ""it's cool..

I'd be very curious as to what your age is.You strike me as pretty young - intelligent - but young,considering that you seem to believe right-wing propaganda that is disguised as leftist realism.As far as I can tell,you've been a member on this forum for a mere 24 hours and you are already implying that people on here are uninformed(on a few subjects now)?You'd be surprised at who is actually on this forum and what they know.Most of it via life experience,as well as education and activism.

Tsk,tsk.From what I see,you only came on to this forum to post for a "friend" who was banned from here.

So you like conspiracy theories,do ya?Personally,I think maybe you are that friend.I do remember there was someone who was banned not too long ago...



And...you kinda post like him too.

Calling out people's knowledge and view points in an attempt to look like "the smartest boy in the whole wide world!".

And to Echo Wanderer, it seems as though you forget which party freed the slaves and ended wars for the last 200 or so years before 1994... a strict constructionist(i.e. libertarian constitutionalist) truly believes that if you just follow the constitution, everyone will be free. Including gay people.

I know my history man.It was actually the Republican party who forced Lincoln into freeing the slaves.What good did it do?It freed some of them,but Lincoln and those who were higher in the economic tier of the colonies still had slaves for a number of years despite the Emancipation Proclamation.The oppression still exists today in a much milder form called "project housing","racial quotas in the workplace",and "glass ceilings".

The Republicans used to be the good guys in this country and the Democrats the guys in black hats.But this isn't 200+ years ago.This is 2007.Somewhere along the line,the Republicans lost thier way due to greed,religion,and power(the worst).The old libertarians are gone and the new align "liberty" with "democratic process",which coincidentally,doesn't mean "Democrat".

BTW,Lenny Bruce was as spot on about people as Richard Pryor and George Carlin.I'd have to throw Chappelle in there too.

Calling people "asshats":

definitely not ron paul.

ok then asshat, how about you step up and tell us what you DO support?

I also support and have donated the Maximum to Dennis Kucinich... ideally exact opposite of Ron Paul...

dennis kucinich is cool. he seems to be the least of all evils. i dunno. i worked helping w/ some campaigning and at a polling place in 2000 and 2004 and i'm pretty disillusioned by the entire voting system. if there was a viable independent (non-libertarian) choice i would probably go for them.

and keep name-calling out of threads if you want to keep them serious, m'k?

Passionately defending a right wing televangelist:

Billy Graham says: You better well motherfuckin believe, motherfucka! Jesus made gravity! Says right here in the manual, foureyes! Now give me the money and fuck off!

eh, this man is dying of cancer, and though he's a pretty well-known preacher, he's not a Jerry Falwell type that ran around talking down gays, etc... he practices/practiced what he preaches. I dunno, I feel as though maybe this guy should be hands off.

That being said now... GAME ON.

A solid belief that the voting system actually works(more Repubican propaganda they feed to young liberal idealists):

the shitty part about people like kucinich and ron paul: they will never win, because the media basically chooses who to televise and who to support.

Anyways - our whole voting system is fucked. I vote to implement run-off voting.

That concept is unacceptable. That level of apathy is UNacceptable. The only reason they won't win is because people won't vote for them. If people get up and go out and vote for the best candidate, that candidate will WIN.

I suggest that you heavily Arm yourselves in the event that Guiliani is elected or appointed in ANOTHER Coup! The shit will definitely hit the fan, and they'll be sorry they didn't renew the assault weapons ban

Hmm...

It seems we have a mystery here.Is "NoMoreComaStep" actually "Auralassassin" using a secret pen name?Or is he a spy in the Ninja Hideout?

Better get these guys on the job!

[jolly wailer]

libertarianism is the political equivalent of scientology

[victor liechtenstein]

libertarianism is the political equivalent of scientology

Yup. The principle seems admirable but when you guts of it, like scientology, it's a rancid heap of pig toss.

I've been an Obama guy since his speech at the DNC years ago. Reminded me of Blair circa 1994 (ie when he was fresh, capable and trustworthy.)

The 1997 election -- a great night.

[__________]

THEY'RE ALL stnuc

[municiple]

Im a memeber of the CFR. I speak there regularly on issues related to China.

I vote and I agree that my vote is personal. Having lived in China for a number of years and known many democracy activists there, I continue to value my right to vote. Perhaps I am a pawn, but I am certainly not apathetic.

If you are truly a member of the CFR, then you're a technocrat my friend.

You might want to get your name off that list.

Got to agree with my longwinded friend, No Coma here, that pulling the blinders on doesnt abdicate responsibility. How do you respond to the people who point out the anti-americanism at the CFR? Whats your stake in the NWO?

Or maybe we should be asking, WTF is a CFR member doing on dubstepforum.com???

Being a member of CFR is not hard to do. You sign up and you go to lectures in your local area. Im not in the back room with a hood on planning world domination. I find myself seeking information from multiple sources, including the internet, media, my own experiences (i travel alot) and from think tanks, etc. Hardly blinders, but if that is how you feel, that is fine.

If I am a technocrat, I want a raise.

As far as my involvement on the dsf, I am here because I love dubstep and produce it as well. Diversity of interests is the joy of my life.

Interesting debate here, well done to all for actually caring enough to discuss it.

[adruu]

i know people that go to the bohemian grove, woop de doo. they aren't really worth any special attention.

all of this NWO and CFR paranoia is a little weird to me. this shit is a little silly, but i can see how that type of thinking is comforting in a complicated world.

if i were municiple i would be a little spooked to bring up professional affiliations on a board, but respect to him for doing it. i would love to talk a little bit about china in another thread if you are up for it.

[municiple]

I hear ya, Adruu. Bidness and pleasure shouldnt be mixed. I do really enjoy my work though, keeps me travelling and meeting all sorts of interesting peeps. Respect.

Oh, and yeah, Im always up for some China talk. You can pm if you prefer.

[death_cafe]

I am proud to be a socialist.

I think that the strong have a responsibility toward the weak.

[tempest]

My 2 cents...

Please vote you fucking Americans, get rid of this party... even if its only a choice of the lesser of two evils, make a change.. even if you think the whole thing is rigged, you've got nothing to lose...

I honestly think it should be compulsory to vote like here in australia