"I died today"

[ehbes]

pretty bourgeois for you man

let he who is without wage slavery cast the first boat shoe

[magma]

Just boils down to greed imho. Not saying I'd let a dog eat me if it was hungry, but our 'importance' is no reason to justify moral conduct between species.

Dogs also do phenomenally well from their relationship with humans. So much so that their evolution has gone hand in hand with ours... even to the extent that they instinctively look at us differently to how they look at other animals. At this point, the human/dog relationship borders on symbiotic.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... faces.html

Wild dogs, like most wild animals, suffer from disease, starvation, brutal violence from other members of their species and predation from others.

Domestic dogs get fed and walked every day, go to the vet when they're sick and even get euthanasia when it all gets too much in the end. They're the most pampered species on the planet and you feel sorry for them because a few individuals out of the hundreds of millions of pet dogs get abused?

[ehbes]

They're the most pampered species on the planet

rightfully so

[pete_bubonic]

Yeah, I like the idea of giving a dog a good last day and all, lots of treats and friendly faces. Probably more than I'll get when I go. Regardless, I could do without being there when they actually put the dog down.

But I think a lot of you miss the point, the dog party is for the dog, the presence of friends and family when the dog is put down is for the comfort of the owner. Some people will deal with the loss of a loved one better surrounded by their dearest than on their ones (which I prefer personally).

[hubb]

And the relationship between d and hs is even further obscured actually.. because crossbred dogs are healthier and more capable of surviving than full bloods because of tsecni/breeding etc, - but then again only because we've made this cult out of 'domesticating' dogs. I guess this at the same time excuses some of the babyfication and psychological aspects of odg ownership
because we brought them inside the house. In greek philosophy means maintaining a household, and in latin moral means maintaining a household (maybe its the other way around).. I think..

[ehbes]

hubb you sound like a closet cat person

[hubb]

They're the most pampered species on the planet

rightfully so

Why not you ehbes?

[magma]

Dogs are such a good idea that ever since that first person domesticated the wolf, they've spread to just about every human culture across the entire world and they did it with remarkable speed. From that moment, you pretty much find dog remains wherever you find human settlements. We've co-habited with dogs for something like 15,000 years... they helped us hunt, they protected our first farms, they've given and received endless amounts of love and they should be treated as extensions of our families.

Dogs are fucking EXCELLENT and it pains me that I've never owned one.

Cats are a vanity mirror.

[ehbes]

the minute I'm out of school and not living at my parents im getting dog. my dad is a huge dog person but my mom is allergic

[hubb]

hubb you sound like a closet cat person

we had free roaming birds for a bit when i was growing up

[+] Spoiler

which probably explains much much much more

zebra 'parakeets' and they were m8s with the cat

[hubb]

Dogs are such a good idea that ever since that first person domesticated the wolf, they've spread to just about every human culture across the entire world and they did it with remarkable speed. From that moment, you pretty much find dog remains wherever you find human settlements. We've co-habited with dogs for something like 15,000 years... they helped us hunt, they protected our first farms, they've given and received endless amounts of love and they should be treated as extensions of our families.

Dogs are fucking EXCELLENT and it pains me that I've never owned one.

Cats are a vanity mirror.

I'm totally with you until the bold bit, other humans need that spot is what i'm saying.
How it is mutually exclusive is harder to argue ofcourse, but then we can look at the owner behaviour and see that even on a basic lingual level, they (you magma! ) will use the same terms - next man is gonna say dog is fit or something

[faultier]

Cats are a vanity mirror.

i take it you never "owned" a cat either right?

[magma]

Cats are a vanity mirror.

i take it you never "owned" a cat either right?

No, I'm allergic to them, but it is verifiably true their owners have no sense of humour.

[hubb]

Its not worth it lining up on their backs though

[magma]

Dogs are such a good idea that ever since that first person domesticated the wolf, they've spread to just about every human culture across the entire world and they did it with remarkable speed. From that moment, you pretty much find dog remains wherever you find human settlements. We've co-habited with dogs for something like 15,000 years... they helped us hunt, they protected our first farms, they've given and received endless amounts of love and they should be treated as extensions of our families.

Dogs are fucking EXCELLENT and it pains me that I've never owned one.

Cats are a vanity mirror.

I'm totally with you until the bold bit, other humans need that spot is what i'm saying.
How it is mutually exclusive is harder to argue ofcourse, but then we can look at the owner behaviour and see that even on a basic lingual level, they (you magma! ) will use the same terms - next man is gonna say dog is fit or something

Their evolved purpose is to feel like they're part of a human family - a properly trained dog will treat you as pack leader. It'll even lay down its life for you and there are plenty of examples of humans doing the same when they don't engage their 'logic circuits' quick enough... diving into icy waters etc.

It sounds hyperbolous, but it's difficult to argue against, you have to admit.

[hubb]

No I buy into that, but the problem is how family with all that entails come before society in that definition. Even before you leave the household (literal meaning, morals/ethics, philospohy) and open the door into the world of horrible fates that you could help to relieve in like an optimum state or whatever , you have the extra baggage of a special boy that barks and shits on your shoulder but can't empathise or even hold onto a ps3 pad... let alone a spliff

[rickyarbino]

Yeah, but there's no reason
Just boils down to greed imho. Not saying I'd let a dog eat me if it was hungry, but our 'importance' is no reason to justify moral conduct between species.

We are white, therefore it's perfectly natural for us to think that white people are the most important people. The perpetuation of our genetic line is ingrained in all of us, like it is in all people. I'll try harder to make my people survive than any other. Within the population, I'll try harder to make my family line survive than any other.

You might be able to abstract yourself from that with drum-circle philosophy, but it doesn't make it any less true. You'd defend your Mum or your Son harder than you'll defend your neighbour, unless you're a proper wrong'n.

If you could ask a black person, it'd probably think black people are.

[rickyarbino]

Why are humans more important than dogs though? Pretty fucked up thing to say since we've practically incapacitated them from living alone in the wild.

Is it fun to answer with : because they can ask you questions and stuff?

tbh ricky, there's levels to when you can ask people something and expect an answer, my opinion is not something I've just arrived at or thought up right on the spot - so when you just happen to run into (bonk into) some principle of thinking, inside your head, then for fucks sake entertain it for a while and then present something afterwards - because just taking everything back to when the fish got feet .. well it doesn't hold a lot of truth and comes off as some odd fedora party trick.
It takes courage and experience to have opinions and it won't make you smarter to only accept the sort of inescapable black and white nuances everything can be turned into in conversation.

I'm exploring here. I can't back your initial statement, so I was wondering if you could.

[Phigure]

The thing about cats is that they were domesticated differently than dogs

Dogs were truly bred and raised as members of the family, cats just started hanging around human settlements cause they could symbiotically feed on vermin

[rickyarbino]

Furthermore, not everyone who holds your view on the significance of humanity agrees that dogs shouldn't be treated as family. Though what you're saying is very much valid (imo), I think dogs should be treated as family if they are kept in a human household, so I kinda have to shake the importance of humanity because of the way you've laid out the argument. I don't just want to take that, I think we should work towards both, because even dogs are treated like shit and I think what we do to them is worse than what we do to each other.