too many new labels. dec 2007 edition.

[etidorhpa]

many of the problems that drum and bass experienced was down to the distributors

[SHAFEY]

This is purely a matter of opinion.

Seckle, you sumed it up in you're first post...One man's shit is another man's treasure.

If you don't like it, don't buy it or play it! It's easy isn't it?

[shonky]

When was Dubstep not like every other genre? Every dance music on the face of the planet goes through the experimental underground phase and then onto the mainstream commercial phase and once the hype settles things begin to return to normal. That's how the world works. Dubstep does not need rose tinted glasses.

I agree with you Pete, it's inevitable in all music scenes that get popular, was just pointing out (badly as it happens) that dubstep has now moved onto the second phase you mention. Hopefully the scene will still be supportive of the more experimental end too though.

And Feas, I'm not the biggest fan of dnb in the world, but you really are talking shite there - there really is no reason why dnb can't be as innovative or broad as dubstep, doubt there's one influence in dubstep that hasn't been used in dnb at some point beforehand - dubwise, wobble bass, techno influence, etc were all caned years before dubstep was a twinkle. Not getting into a dnb vs dubstep debate cause there's blatantly no point, but it's not like you say (amens are not the be all and end all)

[rekordah]

have you seen the sale section at redeye? there's 14 pages of things on sale. what does that tell you about the state of the underground?

http://www.redeyerecords.co.uk/asp/prod ... order=DATE

so should gud money or ricardo villabos' mix of blood on my hands not be released because they havent sold well??? I agree with the overall point ur making in this thread seckle but i think ur missing a very important point, what about the people releasing interesting, challenging music that does not appeal to the mass market? should this be stopped? hell no! because its what keeps this shit interesting.

[sines]

If you don't like it, don't buy it or play it! It's easy isn't it?

game.set.match

[mudda]

And yet, throughout the inevitable process that every once-sheltered music is subject to, despite the changes in style that have and will happen in the music, there are those who always stick with the ethos that they see as original to that music.

Seckle mentioned the downfall/watering down of drum and bass. I was there too, but it didn't mean that the Paradoxes, Sebas, Fanus, Breakages, Equinoxes etc. etc. started pumping out crap too. In fact, labels like Bassbin and Subtle Audio ironically started up after the loss of quality control. There still is - occasionally - some great D&B released. It's a slow life as a D&B record buyer, but it still appears every few months.

I think that ultimately you can't nurse a genre through it's life. It's a bummer that I only buy 1 out of every 10 releases (if that!) but I'm secure in the knowledge that there will always be artists producing quality material.

Unfortunately not everyone has a vision for the music as their main priority, and you can't blame people too much for getting giddy about releasing a half-baked tune...

[seckle]

Every dance music on the face of the planet goes through the experimental underground phase and then onto the mainstream commercial phase and once the hype settles things begin to return to normal. That's how the world works. Dubstep does not need rose tinted glasses.

!!!!!!!!!! spot on.

yeah spot on. indeed obvious.

but surely completely contradicting yr own original post? a plea to release less music so as not to water down the quality would seem 2 me 2 b a plea not to allow dubstep to follow this natural course of events

no, my idea behind this thread is to generally raise the issue that really shit music is being pressed to vinyl lately, and from new labels that nobody has ever heard of before. as you've said yourself, there's good , and bad in every genre, but my question back to you is should we all just fall in line and not say anything about the shitty end?

you seem to be talking as if there's some script that we're supposed to play out in underground music.

when people make comments on the "peanut butter and jam" forums, they're not defending the whole peanut eating jam consuming public for fear that peanuts might sink like the titanic. they're just making comments with people really into their peanut butter and jam.

[*decibella~~]

okay okay

im really feeling what people are saying here- there has been some great great posts that have actually made me stop and think..

and i think too many people on here r overly caught up in this scene, like it s the b all and end all of everything. its irrational. like people decide "okay, thats it, I like dubstep now, nothing else matters" and then get all uptite about it when people release stuf they dont like or people jump on the nandwagon.

any scene goes down the pan eventually. Jungle/DnB was once perhaps the most exciting musical form 2 come out of the UK. Ever. A music really dear to my heart, something that i was passionate about...but i havent checked a new DnB release in years now. its unlistenable. thats just the way it goes. but there's other stuf 2 check now

my allegiance is to music, not one genre of music. genres come and go. but there's always interesting music out there to be found

and always more shit music available than good. so what?

buy the good, ignore the rest.

and if dubstep aint going the way u want it 2 go anymore, then create something new, how u want it. dont feel like u have 2 defend the genre to the death. or go down with it like the captain of a sinking ship

I know dubstep is not 'everything' but still, when you love something, anything, and you've seen it grow and develop and go from strength to strength, and bring people together - the last thing you want is for it to be no more .... Its natural that something you love you dont want to see ruined ....

And i dont see how loving music so much is 'irrational' i feel with music - the producers/djs/ravers have to have some kind of 'obsession' with it for there to be underground 'scenes' at all?


x x x

[shonky]

but my question back to you is should we all just fall in line and not say anything about the shitty end?

Hmm..whenever I do that I usually just get accused of whinging. Mind you if the tunes are as shit as you seem to think, there must be people still liking them enough to buy them or the labels wouldn't keep going. Are these all just one off singles that you're talking about or labels constantly putting bad tunes out? Don't have to name names, just interested to know.

[xor]

Dubstep is an awesome idea. It's been distilled in techno for years - there's not much in it that hasn't already been done before in other genres by other people before the dubstep conventions convened in one place. It'll have longevity because of this I'm sure.

Some producers will keep pushing the boundaries until they break into another genre. Some will skirt the borders continually producing interesting music that draws in influence from the other side of those borders. Some will just keep recycling the same old blueprint without much deviation.

And there will be people willing to release all of it. Lots of labels is a good thing - but their quality control may not be. But as long as the distributors are taking the records on sale or return, they'll take virtually anything, if they think there's any chance of selling it. Don't think you can blame the distributors too much - it's the labels who have to employ the quality control.

Now if the distributors bought the stock from the labels, that would be a different ball-game altogether. But that'll never happen.

[stormfield]

I'd agree with what's been said about that the ratio of good tunes vs. boring tunes is less favourable now than before.

But with the age of the internet it is very, very easy to find out more about tunes you like.

> Spot a tune you think is interesting, and you'll tend to find that similar artists and labels tend to be linked up online via myspazz, facebook, radio shows (esp. Sub fm), parties etc.

If people are too lazy to do even that, then they either 1) end up complaining that all records are stale, or 2) fall prey to the hype of promotion companies and buy the boring records anyway, just to have 'new' vinyl to play.

it's a basic attitude of having mental clarity - to trust your own ears, seek out good tracks, have the confidence to play good records that might not be popular at the time, and have the confidence NOT to buy over-hyped records

You want records that will still make you smile when you play them in a few years time.

sorry if this is going off topic a little

[shonky]

You want records that will still make you smile when you play them in a few years time.

Yeah, longevity is the key I think, I can't be arsed with tunes that don't have that quality (seems to get easier to spot the good'uns with experience too). Keep the passing fads to footwear innit

[John Locke]

but my question back to you is should we all just fall in line and not say anything about the shitty end?

no, moan away. perfectly natural.

but as shonky said, when he does it he gets slated 4 it.


dunno seckle, u totally entitled to complain about all the shit releases. but they aint gonna go away. like cheesy eurohouse aint gonna go away just cos i dont like it. but i'll just try my best not to listen to it.

i guess the problem is u used 2 like the majority of dubstep, and now u dont.

but it happens

same happend for me with hip hop over a longer period of time: used 2 b I'd say hip hop was my 1st love. but theres no way i can bring myself to say that now; I hate 99.99 percent of hip hop. its become a deformed monster

Decibella, the rationality thing im talking about is this kind of touchy defence of dubstep and bickering about what it is, and what it should or shouldnt be. yeah theres got 2 b passion for music for a scene to survive. but what matters is the music, not the scene.

i dont want 2 get into off topic and unneccessarily deep shit here...but its kind of the same deal with nationalism: people cling to the idea that their countyr is better than others cos it gives them an identity, helps them make sense of the world, puts something grey and complex in easy to understand black and white. saying "I'm british cos I'm not french" makes u feel grounded. likewise, saying "I'm dubstep cos I'm not DnB or broken beat", if its really blinkered, is just about wanting to have an identity, trying to make sense of who u r

not sure if all that makes sense, reduced to 2 badly written paragraphs. too long a conversation to get in to on here

anyway...

...most dubstep i dont like. often the stuff the majority rave about. but some i like a lot. I take that and leave the rest. same with other genres.

complain if u want. dont buy it if u dont like it. do buy it if u do.

what can i say?

[*decibella~~]

Decibella, the rationality thing im talking about is this kind of touchy defence of dubstep and bickering about what it is, and what it should or shouldnt be. yeah theres got 2 b passion for music for a scene to survive. but what matters is the music, not the scene.

mate, seriously, you dont have tell me that

Music is the most important thing of course! goes without saying

[lukki]

word.... a FUTURE complaint i may have tho....

since nowadays you dont even need the $$ to press up to have a "release", please please please, all labels, dont slack on your mixing/mastering if you are gonna release digital.

THAT type of quality control i can see becoming a problem...

10000%

I am always amazed that almost no digital labels have their tunes mastered.!!! IMO, its better to put out music as high quality as you can even if it does cut into the already minuscule digital market profits.

Awesome points in this thread.

[willis]

wasteman thread

[John Locke]

I know dubstep is not 'everything' but still, when you love something, anything, and you've seen it grow and develop and go from strength to strength, and bring people together - the last thing you want is for it to be no more .... Its natural that something you love you dont want to see ruined ....



x x x

but it aint exactly clear from yr post if "the last thing you want is for it to be no more .... Its natural that something you love you dont want to see ruined" was meant to apply to music in general or to dubstep.

anyway...not on here to fall out with people over words and definitions. and my explination wasnt a criticism of yrself, it was an explination of what i meant by irrational...seeing as u asked

[John Locke]

wasteman thread

TRANSLATION: too many big words for me

[bob crunkhouse]

wasteman thread

TRANSLATION: too many big words for me

lol

its an interesting read actually, i think people should just call a spade a spade and just say they think a release is shit and not worth a vinyl pressing. Whoever made the point about mastering is spot on to!

[pete_bubonic]

Yes, posting a thread about this on a forum isn't going to make a dramatic change to the scene. Seckle knows this.

But we are all debating the topic which is good and I see names in this thread that I know, respect and listen to their music. People involved in the part of the scene I am interested in. So maybe this thread sas a point beyond the inevitable swings and roundabouts of all forum debates.


I think there has been an explosion of smaller labels and not only is it to be expected (as everyone is taking notice and getting in on it) and welcomed (it gives opportunities to people who really have something to say but get overlooked by established labels). The important thing I think we need to keep in context is ratios. If the number of labels increases, then the ration of good vs. bad releases should stay the same. Personally I don't think it has, I trawl though a lot of tunes every week and I can't honestly say anymore that 'dubstep' is pushing things forward. 'Dubstep' has slowly becoming quite angry and too dancefloor orientated. The meditate on bass weight motto that DMZ promoted, doesn't ring true for me anymore. But it's not Coki causing this, the man came with bangers first and foremost and if it wasn't for the fact that now every other breh with Fruity is making Coki clones, I'd probably still love Road Rage, Spongebob etc etc. But listening to 6 or 7 cheap knock off's on Redeye is tiresome.

SO I sympathise with Seckle and even Shonky. Quality control needs to be first on the list, not 'I can so I will'.

I of course realise this is a classic internet music forum conversation and have had EXACTLY the same conversation on DOA, except with dnb and dillinja replacing dubstep and Coki. Not much we can about that though either.