To all MP3 sharers

[shonky]

deapoh, i agree with the overall point you (& luke envoy) make but i have to say that there are many people like me who discover music through filesharing and then go out and buy the record at the first opportunity. i can't count the number of records i've purchased that i never would have bought had i not been able to first get to know the tracks as downloaded mp3s.

i am fully down with supporting artists & the scene but i think filesharing does increase sales & makes the scene grow. just my view though, i'm sure some would disagree with me. there are definitely shameless wankers who will rip off artists, but are they outweighed/outnumbered by the people who buy tracks they like?

I'd follow that, have recently reached near bankruptcy for the very same reasons

I think the trouble is that whereas there was a big difference between vinyl and tape, there's absolutely no difference between a legit mp3 and a copy. I've always been a vinyl junkie, so mp3's legit or not, don't hold that much appeal to me, but if the format can be perfectly replicated and shared, it's placing a lot of faith in people to think that they'll be honouring the artists and paying money to support the scene when they can get it for nowt. Doubtful that everyone is going to be nabbed for file-sharing so there's little to stop anyone doing it either.

Any idea on how many legit mp3's are bought as opposed to file-shared by the way?

[deapoh]

Hey SubHuman I hear your point and I know loads of people get into the music through this... I'm not knocking it sorry. Maybe I should have also added a few other words.

I've had a few people add me to MSN, PM me on this forum etc asking me if I can send them individual tracks or where the free high quality tracks are on Barefiles... I just don't get it. They're already into the music and still looking to download. One example who I will not name was asking for high quality MP3s on MSN and being into Dubstep for 2 or 3 years now...

[zgk]

I agree with subhuman,

Filesharing is a tool that can advance a scene or culture.
You can reach a very broad audience.

All it does is take the usual burn a copy of a CD for a friend (Free Of Course), to a higher worldwide level.

But, it can be abused by making a profit off of illegal downloads.
Or playing tunes you didnt buy...

Edit..
You would be surprised how many people dont know about filesharing, dubstep or underground music in general.

[seckle]

One example who I will not name was asking for high quality MP3s on MSN and being into Dubstep for 2 or 3 years now...

these kind of people are the ones making threads here and on other places about music taking so long to come out. typical. you give people 10 feet, they take 100. pay for the music you love, regardless of format. i've got no time for people like this.

[ifp]

i have a question:

say i own a dubstep release on vinyl, is it legally/ethically ok for me to download that track as an mp3 for free, or is it only legal if i buy it as an mp3 or record the mp3 myself from vinyl?

i see this as i kind of grey area, so i'd like to know what people think who know more about copyright, etc than i do.

[deapoh]

Grey area for me also... It should still be illegal considering all sharing of MP3s is illegal but then again you could just rip the tune yourself. I've ripped nearly all my vinyl to the PC so I have wave backups incase I scratch the vinyl. Also have 320 CBR copies for Serato Scratch so I don't have to drag 400 vinyl to my mates just to do a little mix.

[threnody]

If you own it on vinyl why not just rip it to your computer. Probably takes the same or less time than d/ling and you are guaranteed as high quality as you want....

As for the people saying that they use filesharing to dip into a scene to find what they like i can just about understand this but only if people bought tracks after 1 or 2 plays and then deleted the original pirate. As soon as you burn to CD or share it with others or put it on itunes/your ipod then you have crossed the line.

Having sid that i think people would get a much better idea about a scene from d/ling a barefiles/or whatever mix to get a good cross section of a sound. I know people always want something for nothing but at the end of the day pirates only care about themselves and not the consequences of their actions which makes them scum.

[el sub sta]

File sharing is not good for the artists, but it does seem that music is very much still alive.

[shonky]

i have a question:

say i own a dubstep release on vinyl, is it legally/ethically ok for me to download that track as an mp3 for free, or is it only legal if i buy it as an mp3 or record the mp3 myself from vinyl?

i see this as i kind of grey area, so i'd like to know what people think who know more about copyright, etc than i do.

Ethically I don't see anything wrong with it, as you've paid money for it already, and for the sake of expedience it's a lot quicker than recording it off the turntable into the pc and then converting it to mp3. Unless I was a completely avaricious bastard, if I was running a label I'd think you'd already earned the right to do that.

There were some words about people being prosecuted for selling ipods with mp3's already loaded on them that had been legally bought the other week, as apparently the mp3 is only sold to the end user and thus you cannot sell it on - mp3 fairs of the future are unlikely - read more here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5083790.stm

[threnody]

But to be fair the DTI don't really care that much about pirates as long as they don't interfere with high prioity waves (police, bbc etc....). As long as they are run professionally and don't offend they are left alone most of the time....

I suppose sampling is also illegal so electronic music (on the whole) has always had illegal roots. Dodging the taxman is a worldwide epidemic tho and the majority of people earning any kind of cash out of music do self assessment tax forms and do pay their way...

[shonky]

But to be fair the DTI don't really care that much about pirates as long as they don't interfere with high prioity waves (police, bbc etc....). As long as they are run professionally and don't offend they are left alone most of the time....

I suppose sampling is also illegal so electronic music (on the whole) has always had illegal roots. Dodging the taxman is a worldwide epidemic tho and the majority of people earning any kind of cash out of music do self assessment tax forms and do pay their way...

Think the cost of lawyers actually makes suing small labels economically pointless for uncleared samples. If you sell a thousand copies (and that's probably more than most releases muster), it's unlikely that there'll be much or any profit left to get a share of I would have thought.

[metalboxproducts]

Is it just me or does Deapoh actually run Barefiles: Kinda contradicts this entire thread no? Or are mixes different from pirating single tunes

Yes I do run it... mixes are different though. Most of these are low quality and / or mono recordings with static in. Some are high quality mixes and I get supported by most of the artists (PMs asking me to upload their show etc).

One major difference is you can't cut out a tune from a mix and play it on your show... You could but it wou
ld sound like shit, being re-encoded loads of times, not having the intro / outro etc.

If people really have a problem with Barefiles (which they don't) Then I will close it and you can go back to yousendit links of mixes...

yeah i think you should
Sorry Obi, but that was a bad call mate. Really, and

[luke.envoy]

big up to deapoh for speaking his mind.

[ifp]

to be honest, i don really give a fuck about copyright laws. i'm perfectly happy to listen to pirate radio, and i wouldn't think twice about downloading some nas/andy c/fatboy slim (not that i would, just tryin to think of examples...) or whatever it might be cos theyre fucking minted.

the issue as i see it is that everyone on here loves dubstep, which as has already been said is a small scene with not a lot of money in it. if people want the scene to progress and hear new dubstep music, they should support the artists who are working to put out the music that they love listening to. no-ones asking you to spend your entire monthly salary on records. if no-one buys records, the artists don't get any money and if the artits don't get any money, they stop releasin records. i don't see how that benefits anyone.

i know there are arguments about how filesharing promotes the scene and yes it is true to an extent, but if anyone gave even the quickest look for dubstep on the internet they would almost immediately come across barefiles and be able to listen to the mixes.

like i said, i repect the arguments of both sides but in the end i think the arguments over filesharing per se are irrelevant. the point is whether you want to give something back to a to the people who make the music you love (and obviously im not just talking about dubstep, it applies to all independent music)

[deapoh]

Having sid that i think people would get a much better idea about a scene from d/ling a barefiles/or whatever mix to get a good cross section of a sound.

I've been thinking this.. I have received many emails, pms etc that people got into Dubstep via the site and have been thinking.

Can we as a community on Dubstep Forum create a 30 minute mix (mixed in Acid Pro or something) with a tracklist covering all aspects of Dubstep. From the mellow tunes of DMZ to the harsh Basslines of Skream or Ramadanman. From the steppy garage influenced tunes of Burial and Zomby to techno kinda influencd beats by Caspa, D1 etc?

I'd put this up on the site as a first time listening to Dubstep mix. Also will do one for Grime on the Rinse forums and other places. If it's a good idea let me know and I'll start a topic in the mixes room.


EDIT: I think ifp' post before mine covered EVERYTHING!

[el sub sta]

But to be fair the DTI don't really care that much about pirates as long as they don't interfere with high prioity waves (police, bbc etc....). As long as they are run professionally and don't offend they are left alone most of the time....

I suppose sampling is also illegal so electronic music (on the whole) has always had illegal roots. Dodging the taxman is a worldwide epidemic tho and the majority of people earning any kind of cash out of music do self assessment tax forms and do pay their way...

Think the cost of lawyers actually makes suing small labels economically pointless for uncleared samples. If you sell a thousand copies (and that's probably more than most releases muster), it's unlikely that there'll be much or any profit left to get a share of I would have thought.

[sidesteppa]

to be honest, i don really give a fuck about copyright laws. i'm perfectly happy to listen to pirate radio, and i wouldn't think twice about downloading some nas/andy c/fatboy slim (not that i would, just tryin to think of examples...) or whatever it might be cos theyre fucking minted.

the issue as i see it is that everyone on here loves dubstep, which as has already been said is a small scene with not a lot of money in it. if people want the scene to progress and hear new dubstep music, they should support the artists who are working to put out the music that they love listening to. no-ones asking you to spend your entire monthly salary on records. if no-one buys records, the artists don't get any money and if the artits don't get any money, they stop releasin records. i don't see how that benefits anyone.

i know there are arguments about how filesharing promotes the scene and yes it is true to an extent, but if anyone gave even the quickest look for dubstep on the internet they would almost immediately come across barefiles and be able to listen to the mixes.

like i said, i repect the arguments of both sides but in the end i think the arguments over filesharing per se are irrelevant. the point is whether you want to give something back to a to the people who make the music you love (and obviously im not just talking about dubstep, it applies to all independent music)

Very true! although sadly i don't think many people do give a fuck and only a few want to give something back. Maybe with underground music there is a more legitimate crew as it is small and therefore people who listen usually are the ones in the know who want to get involved.

Has anyone noticed that dubstep has only really begun to crop up on file sharing sites since dubwarz. People from dubplate.net board were almost exclusively doing something for the scene whether it was producing, djing, graphics or whatever.

I'm not saying lets go back to the good old days coz things are MUCH better and easier now but as a scene grows bigger it attracts the wrong sort of people along with the right sort. Fortunatly things aren't too bad yet!!

[djshiva]

i don't know what it is about dubstep, but it certainly inspires a LOT of loyalty. i think the slow growth, coupled with the friendliness of the people involved now does a lot to encourage real support, whether that's buying vinyl, mp3s, donating to barefiles, getting a co-op label together...etc.

i think that's one thing that the scene has going for it right now, and it will be difficult to hold onto as it grows, but i hope the solid foundation will bring people in who recognize that there is a great community here, and that we all have to support each other.

one thing that i have raved about when telling people about dubstep is not only the FANTASTIC music, but the really dedicated people i have seen involved with it. perhaps i am one of the idealists, but i have told people who dig the music that it's a really great group of people involved and that the attitudes seem to be very chill. i think that is what inspires part of the dedication to making sure that artists get their share and that labels aren't fucked over. it really feels like the geeks who dig the music are also working to spread the sound, whether through events or djing, and the bigger names in the scene are right there talking with all the punters. it makes it feel more like community as opposed to dj vs average joe. people feel a part of it, rather than just a spectator, and that encourages more support than the usual production/consumption model.

i was thrilled to be able to donate to barefiles, and obviously MANY of us were. that kind of selfless dedication i have not seen in ANY music scene in quiote a long time. if those involved can manage to maintain a slow growth, really just sending feelers out and bringing people in who are digging the tunes AND the community, i think that's what's gonna keep things running smoothly in the long run.

what usually happens in a music scene is that it blows up, gets too big for its britches, and then really weird people end up in involved for all the wrong reasons.

sometimes it seems to take forever for tunes to come out and such, but i partly think that slow, organic growth is a positive for keeping things building at a reasonable pace, instead of at this frenzied internet faster faster bigger bigger more kind of pace that happens with so many things these days.

ok, so this seems like a really long ramble right now, but i am sure there is a seed of an interesting discussion in amongst it all...

blame the ganja.

[night deposit]

heres an old thread with some relevant ranting...

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2440

[metalboxproducts]

i don't know what it is about dubstep, but it certainly inspires a LOT of loyalty. i think the slow growth, coupled with the friendliness of the people involved now does a lot to encourage real support, whether that's buying vinyl, mp3s, donating to barefiles, getting a co-op label together...etc.

i think that's one thing that the scene has going for it right now, and it will be difficult to hold onto as it grows, but i hope the solid foundation will bring people in who recognize that there is a great community here, and that we all have to support each other.

one thing that i have raved about when telling people about dubstep is not only the FANTASTIC music, but the really dedicated people i have seen involved with it. perhaps i am one of the idealists, but i have told people who dig the music that it's a really great group of people involved and that the attitudes seem to be very chill. i think that is what inspires part of the dedication to making sure that artists get their share and that labels aren't fucked over. it really feels like the geeks who dig the music are also working to spread the sound, whether through events or djing, and the bigger names in the scene are right there talking with all the punters. it makes it feel more like community as opposed to dj vs average joe. people feel a part of it, rather than just a spectator, and that encourages more support than the usual production/consumption model.

i was thrilled to be able to donate to barefiles, and obviously MANY of us were. that kind of selfless dedication i have not seen in ANY music scene in quiote a long time. if those involved can manage to maintain a slow growth, really just sending feelers out and bringing people in who are digging the tunes AND the community, i think that's what's gonna keep things running smoothly in the long run.

what usually happens in a music scene is that it blows up, gets too big for its britches, and then really weird people end up in involved for all the wrong reasons.

sometimes it seems to take forever for tunes to come out and such, but i partly think that slow, organic growth is a positive for keeping things building at a reasonable pace, instead of at this frenzied internet faster faster bigger bigger more kind of pace that happens with so many things these days.

ok, so this seems like a really long ramble right now, but i am sure there is a seed of an interesting discussion in amongst it all...

blame the ganja.