The Month In: Grime / Dubstep by Blackdown

blackdown · Post by **blackdown** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:47 pm

The Grand Master has spoken!!!!

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:14 pm

Jtransition wrote:
This scene was formed off shit mixdowns, kids in bedroom studios making beats on reason. Skream made his first beats on a playstation so you telling me them mixdowns were crisp?! No they didnt, they were still cut, still played!
Irrespective of Skreams early mixdownds his tunes were cut by him and other people(10" dubplate).Whilst listening to his tracks being played out on dub he would have made adjustments to his mixes to get the sound that he was looking for(which is 1 reason to cut dubs in the first place).

Isn't that even easier if you're playing tunes out digitally, though? You can go back and tweak the mixdown (or even the arrangement) every time you play out if you want to, rather than having to find the time and money to get it cut.

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:21 pm

nah cos you don't get the benefit of going into a pro studio, speaking to engineers and listening to your beats on monitors you could never afford

dj $hy · Post by **dj $hy** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:56 am

Jason,

I wasn’t confused when I started writing this but after reading your response I have to say now I am….

You asked me how transition (IMO) were not embracing the digital revolution to which I replied simply that it costs more to master mp3’s to which you seem to have now confirmed! So to go back to my first point (IMO) why are cutting houses embracing the digital revolution. Only offering CD mastered, ready for press mastered mp3’s isn’t (IMO) embracing said digital revolution! I hope this point is clear for you all now.

So a question then with my new found knowledge!

Why can you not give mp3’s the same process, signal route treatment as you offer for dubs? Just a quick polish? Minus the plate I would expect that to be cheaper and as I said “ waaaay more accessible” thus more producers would use this which will bring the quality of the music up. If it cost me say a tenner to have my track polished by you or any other cutting house I would 100% send every track to get mastered before I sent them to anyone!

Again I am limited to my knowledge so please don’t feel I’m attacking you/transition or anyone else, I’m saying this as an artist and as someone who does not have the funds to go and cut a dub, test it and then re-cut it (IMO madness but hey!). But if you as a company representing our music publicly then saying things like

Bob Crunkhouse wrote:"I can only think of one pro for using these digital mediums. Digital mediums are shock resistant. They can be used well in rocky terrain, e.g. a moving boat party, playing on a train; back of a truck etc. this cannot be done with vinyl."

I mean is that not madness?! Come on now!!

I just reacted to Blacks article regarding people playing CD’s and bad sounding tracks. From the point of view of a producer I just found it in bad taste to say something like that, almost poncy when in today’s credit crunching world you expect struggling artist who work fulltime to then afford to spend (I still have no price) a lot of money getting tracks digitally mastered! I have watched countless BIG dj’s play from CD in all scenes, most of which are massive when compared to Dubstep so why is it in Dubstep we are so poncy about it?

Making music is not about money so why is it then that in Dubstep we are told that you have to cut to dub?!

Please don’t see this as an attack on transition as that was not my original point and I don’t want it twisted. I quoted transition PURELY because it is the only cutting house I’d use not because I think you and only you are not embracing the digital side of things. Please replace the word transition with cutting house!

ikeaboy · Post by **ikeaboy** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:18 pm

LD wrote:
If thats true its the first i heard of it. How's that measured exactly?
The guy who mastered many of Bob Marley's singles and albums has a lecture on mastering. Have a look, it's very informative.

http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/vide ... e_makeover

Very interesting, i didn't realise some people went to acetate in the same way they go to 1/4 inch when producing CD's. Hearing the "4 times better quality" remark in its proper setting I can understand the spirit in which it was said and the the authority of the person who said it.
The comment on typical turntables with Stanton/Concorde stylus getting 75% of the full picture- now thats work looking at I think. I remember reading an interview with Mr Scruff, he was discussing how he brought proper hifi vinyl amps with him when he Dj'd and it made a major difference.

jtransition · Post by **jtransition** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:15 am

Why can you not give mp3’s the same process, signal route treatment as you offer for dubs? Just a quick polish? Minus the plate I would expect that to be cheaper and as I said “ waaaay more accessible” thus more producers would use this which will bring the quality of the music up. If it cost me say a tenner to have my track polished by you or any other cutting house I would 100% send every track to get mastered before I sent them to anyone!

Good question,
The quick answer is that if we did that then people would use these (lets call them mp3 dubs)for mass duplication its human nature.There is a second hole drilled in all dub plates to stop people from using these as a master lacquer but with the way that digital delivery works today it is inevitable that you are going to get mass duplication of what is meant to be a one off for dj`s only.I do not want anything that comes from my studio that is going to be mass produced sounding anything other than its best.I am a little bit crazy like that ( i have even been known to recut a duplate free of charge after hearing it at a club to the suprise of the customer)
It`s not about the money if it was i would be a plumber.

If it cost me say a tenner to have my track polished by you or any other cutting house I would 100% send every track to get mastered before I sent them to anyone!

This is my point , first you say "if it cost me say a tenner to have my track polished" which we now call mp3dubplate "i would 100% send every track to get mastered"
Polished=mp3dubplate is not a master
Also what are you basing the tenner on? because for me or LD to spend 1 hour in the studio you have got to consider the aditional costs of running a business eg two staff members aswell as LD and Myself rent,rates,insurance .etc and i am not even going to go into the hardware costs.

blackdown · Post by **blackdown** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:31 am

you can't forget the additional costs of running the secret Transition Funk Logic ™ box Jason!

jtransition · Post by **jtransition** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:35 pm

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:03 pm

^ I was wondering why the Low Motion pressings sounded so good-- now i know it's transition's palindrometer! good looks, boys.

In all honesty i found LD's discussion of building drums for a new kind of dance far more interesting than any continuation of the digital/analog discussion.

vinyl/dubplates have a wider useable dynamic range--at least, at the top of the dynamic range (there's a bunch of noise in turntables), which leads to more punch on a good system. You get to the top of the digital signal, 0db, and the sound will evaporate into godawful, crunchy digital distortion.

as more and more people get ableton and make it to some stage of production, i'm excited to see what happens in the live dub world.

runner · Post by **runner** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:47 pm

Jtransition wrote:
Why can you not give mp3’s the same process, signal route treatment as you offer for dubs? Just a quick polish? Minus the plate I would expect that to be cheaper and as I said “ waaaay more accessible” thus more producers would use this which will bring the quality of the music up. If it cost me say a tenner to have my track polished by you or any other cutting house I would 100% send every track to get mastered before I sent them to anyone!
Good question,
The quick answer is that if we did that then people would use these (lets call them mp3 dubs)for mass duplication its human nature.There is a second hole drilled in all dub plates to stop people from using these as a master lacquer but with the way that digital delivery works today it is inevitable that you are going to get mass duplication of what is meant to be a one off for dj`s only.I do not want anything that comes from my studio that is going to be mass produced sounding anything other than its best.I am a little bit crazy like that ( i have even been known to recut a duplate free of charge after hearing it at a club to the suprise of the customer)
It`s not about the money if it was i would be a plumber.

This is my point , first you say "if it cost me say a tenner to have my track polished" which we now call mp3dubplate "i would 100% send every track to get mastered"
Polished=mp3dubplate is not a master
Also what are you basing the tenner on? because for me or LD to spend 1 hour in the studio you have got to consider the aditional costs of running a business eg two staff members aswell as LD and Myself rent,rates,insurance .etc and i am not even going to go into the hardware costs.

JUST RESPECT>>>>>

thanks for spending all these lines explaining the by now in the last 20-ish yrs self-explanatory

pdomino · Post by **pdomino** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:04 pm

unlikely wrote:maybe it will force clubs to fix up with the whole "lets spend £5000 on decor, then maybe think about the DJ a bit if we get the time" problem that is rife in this country

This.
Great read M, and even better in a quiet empty office !

mephisto6 · Post by **mephisto6** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:04 pm

for all the vinyl enthusiasts

http://hypebeast.com/2008/08/worlds-lar ... ollection/

pdomino · Post by **pdomino** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:35 pm

mephisto6 wrote:for all the vinyl enthusiasts

http://hypebeast.com/2008/08/worlds-lar ... ollection/

Guy has a press from 1881

starkey · Post by **starkey** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:34 am

i use serato like many of my friends, because i find it to be the most tactile way of dj'ing in front of people (still getting that vinyl touch), but also allowing me to be able to play whatever it is i want to play at any time.

vinyl records or dubplates do sound different than cd's or mp3's off of serato, that is why i enjoy buying records and enjoying them in my home. but if i can record all of the records i buy and put them on one harddrive to take to the club... that just makes things a whole lot easier. particularly for someone who travels a lot.

quality control and selection is on the dj. don't play tunes that are crap or sound like crap..... simple as that. the format is not the issue.

bunzer0 · Post by **bunzer0** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:09 am

starkey wrote:i use serato like many of my friends, because i find it to be the most tactile way of dj'ing in front of people (still getting that vinyl touch), but also allowing me to be able to play whatever it is i want to play at any time.

vinyl records or dubplates do sound different than cd's or mp3's off of serato, that is why i enjoy buying records and enjoying them in my home. but if i can record all of the records i buy and put them on one harddrive to take to the club... that just makes things a whole lot easier. particularly for someone who travels a lot.

quality control and selection is on the dj. don't play tunes that are crap or sound like crap..... simple as that. the format is not the issue.

word !!!!!!

blackdown · Post by **blackdown** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:44 am

starkey wrote:i use serato...

you also know how to master tho

ld · Post by ld » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:16 pm

Thanks for all the interest in the article.

If anybody has any more queries into what I have said, come to transition, cut a dub with me and I will answer any questions you may have.

The Month In: Grime / Dubstep by Blackdown

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