Inexperienced MCs trashing dubstep nights

[bob crunkhouse]

To add an angle on the debate - this was possibly the best 5 minutes i ever experienced at FWD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATCVVQRYG2s

yeh this includes what was one of the hypest moments i've ever experienced i think, when God's Gift came through words cannot express

also that night Fuda Guy absolutely killed it

and Skepta was consummate

such a sick night

Yes yes yes yes yes, the only FWD i've ever been too but a truly amazing time. When Jammer turned up "They tried to stop me coming in ya naaaa!"

So glad there's a proper good recording of this.

[deamonds]

mc's dont like it when i do war...

they wanna be famous no more war...

[the wiggle baron]

Im going to have to agree with this whole-heartedly.
I love MC's. I dont think theres much thats going to get me more stoked than a well timed "OUCH!" or a nice "woah woah woaaaah!".

Just please MC's, PLEASE at least find out about the scene before transferring your same techniques to what could very well be an entirely different kettle of fish.

At skream's Cardiff gig of his watch the ride tour the other day, there was an MC yelling "OLLIE OLLIE OLLIE" expecting the crowd to say oi oi oi, pretty much constantly through Archangel. WHAT THE FUCK?!!

[geiom]

seems that it might not have been the best thing for SLT to carry on over the next set BUT it is weird to think that some people don't even seem to know who they are/what they do/how long they have been around for.

They smashed it when they played for us in Nottingham.

overall I think Mr Plastic has really summed up the MC situation tho....

[koast]

MCs can blatantly add something to a dubstep night - as long as they know what they're doing. It AINT grime, and a lot of MCs fail to realise that and come with non-stop bars... that's waste. Most people at a dubstep night ain't into that AT ALL. But a well placed 16 on a big riddim? Heavy! Like I said in another thread, all about knowing when to spray, and when to hold it down. I reckon 99.9999% of the time, if you have more than 2 MCs on a set, it'll get silly. But for some reason, alot of people who aren't proper into the music see a mic, and think it's open season. Save that shit for Eski Dance or Sidewinder. It's a fine-line.

[koast]

Another thing - while over the top MCing can ruin a night, there is a flipside. I was a garage kid, and have seen dubstep develop from that (not disputing there's other strong influences - that's just my path into it) scene. MCs have ALWAYS had a place in that scene, from Creed/CKP/PSG, through to Heartless/So Solid/PAUG and then the early grime crews, and people like Slaughter Mob. So, it does piss me off when people who only got into dubstep recently from other scenes whinge about MCs at nights - fuck off, it's part of a continuing culture that existed long before you heard it in the second room at a breakcore/DnB/techno night.

[spooKs]

I quite enjoyed MC Frilla doing some MCing over my set at Timbuk2 last weekend, he knew how to let it breathe to, at times. Well, you just have to if Holly Brook Park gets dropped!

[rogue star]

This

MCs can blatantly add something to a dubstep night - as long as they know what they're doing. It AINT grime, and a lot of MCs fail to realise that and come with non-stop bars... that's waste. Most people at a dubstep night ain't into that AT ALL. But a well placed 16 on a big riddim? Heavy! Like I said in another thread, all about knowing when to spray, and when to hold it down. I reckon 99.9999% of the time, if you have more than 2 MCs on a set, it'll get silly. But for some reason, alot of people who aren't proper into the music see a mic, and think it's open season. Save that shit for Eski Dance or Sidewinder. It's a fine-line.

And This

Another thing - while over the top MCing can ruin a night, there is a flipside. I was a garage kid, and have seen dubstep develop from that (not disputing there's other strong influences - that's just my path into it) scene. MCs have ALWAYS had a place in that scene, from Creed/CKP/PSG, through to Heartless/So Solid/PAUG and then the early grime crews, and people like Slaughter Mob. So, it does piss me off when people who only got into dubstep recently from other scenes whinge about MCs at nights - fuck off, it's part of a continuing culture that existed long before you heard it in the second room at a breakcore/DnB/techno night.

[HamCrescendo]

Remember when I went to see Joker, was hyping myself up for the drop in gully brook lane all through his set, and then someone did some sub par MCing right over the drop... No pause for effect or anything, and its not like its an unexpected dropper.

[slothrop]

Another thing - while over the top MCing can ruin a night, there is a flipside. I was a garage kid, and have seen dubstep develop from that (not disputing there's other strong influences - that's just my path into it) scene. MCs have ALWAYS had a place in that scene, from Creed/CKP/PSG, through to Heartless/So Solid/PAUG and then the early grime crews, and people like Slaughter Mob. So, it does piss me off when people who only got into dubstep recently from other scenes whinge about MCs at nights - fuck off, it's part of a continuing culture that existed long before you heard it in the second room at a breakcore/DnB/techno night.

I love the effect of a (good) fast flow over dubstep sometimes - kind of filling in the energy that's implicit in it.

People who hate all MCs do my head in a bit, actually. "I go to a club to hear the music not some wanker talking over the top." No you don't, you chill at home with your headphones to hear the music, you go to a club to dance, drink, party, and to get a sense of community.

Bad MCs are poor though. And there's nothing as bad as a club with a slightly underpowered system who turn the music down so low you can barely hear the bass let alone feel it just so you can hear the crap MC.

[reptilian]

i agree that, like koast said, dubstep requires a more restrained approach

i dont agree with wafel's remarks about drum n bass tho. i personally used to love mcs on drum n bass like fivealive, jakes, shabba, fatman d, navigator, joe peng, hyper d back in 96-98

as for calling slaughter mob inexperienced - thats just stupidity. even if they didn't sound right over mala's set they are far from inexperienced

[koast]

i dont agree with wafel's remarks about drum n bass tho. i personally used to love mcs on drum n bass like fivealive, jakes, shabba, fatman d, navigator, joe peng, hyper d back in 96-98

Straight up. I'd go as far as to say that (with the exception of REALLY liquid or REALLY dark/techy stuff) DnB needs an MC in a club environment.

I think a lot of the anti-MC brigade write them off on preconceptions ('they talk too much', 'they're rudeboys', 'too much attitude' etc), rather than any proper grievance

[blackheart]

Another thing - while over the top MCing can ruin a night, there is a flipside. I was a garage kid, and have seen dubstep develop from that (not disputing there's other strong influences - that's just my path into it) scene. MCs have ALWAYS had a place in that scene, from Creed/CKP/PSG, through to Heartless/So Solid/PAUG and then the early grime crews, and people like Slaughter Mob. So, it does piss me off when people who only got into dubstep recently from other scenes whinge about MCs at nights - fuck off, it's part of a continuing culture that existed long before you heard it in the second room at a breakcore/DnB/techno night.

[surface_tension]

Let me try to make this plain as can be without ruffling TOO damn many feathers...


Producers
Labels
Distro

In the order of importance to me. As a label, we're merely here to extend our(or someone else through us!) vision of music. As a label it would be our job to make sure that those tunes get out, because promoting the label will enable us to better promote the truly important aspect of the dynamic... the product.

Producers are more important than DJ's. Without them, there are no tunes to play. You can play tunes without a label,without distro, etc... you cannot play them without producers.

I've never heard a single beat that I have honestly thought "I'd like to hear someone speaking/singing/rhyming/etc" over it. I've heard good beats, I'd heard good MC's... I've DJ'd, produced and run a label...

If you don't know where the volume knob is for the Mic, should you even be up on stage?

Another thing - while over the top MCing can ruin a night, there is a flipside. I was a garage kid, and have seen dubstep develop from that (not disputing there's other strong influences - that's just my path into it) scene. MCs have ALWAYS had a place in that scene, from Creed/CKP/PSG, through to Heartless/So Solid/PAUG and then the early grime crews, and people like Slaughter Mob. So, it does piss me off when people who only got into dubstep recently from other scenes whinge about MCs at nights - fuck off, it's part of a continuing culture that existed long before you heard it in the second room at a breakcore/DnB/techno night.

I understand where you're coming from here. This is like coming from a Techno background and hearing trainwreck mixes, ambient mixes, non mixes, rewinds, etc. Sure, we heard them in Techno and House, but they weren't so much the "sought after" people that we have in some cases here. Take into consideration that in the Garage scene, as well, they favored clean mixes and EQ work a lot more than just a wobbling LFO line. There's a lot more to Garage than a 4/4 and a bassline, same with techno...

Why can we not celebrate where they collide though(figuratively, I still cringe during a bad mix)?

I don't mind an MC... but how about realizing that his job is to shout out the crowd and the DJ's, not himself. I suggest maybe even reading up on the history of the DJ and the history of the MC... maybe take a look at the "Scratch" DVD.

Yea, it's a totally different genre... but DJing came from that. It didn't come from UK cats and 4/4 Garage either. Before all that, there were disco and techno and regular records with no genre's.... and most importantly, NO MC's.

The advent of the MC comes when the DJ ALLOWED the MC on the Mic. Otherwise, it was "you're double parked, the police are outside towing your car"

Otherwise there were no MC's. So take into consideration that to even step on the Mic is a BLESSING, not a right. If the DJ should grace you with the GIFT of getting up to speak... first, have something to say. Second, say that thing.

Third... go put that Mic down, grab a drink and wiggle your middle. Your job is done. And that's just being real. All my favorite MC's knew when their job was done. Funny how people name their favorite MC's and I just cringe... maybe they are your favorite because they made themselves the window dressing, instead of part of the show. If you have done your job effectively, I probably won't hear your name or your voice all that much. It should sound kinda like it was meant to be there, and maybe pronounce your words a bit clearly. In other words, practice in the mirror first.

P.S. I have favorite Dubstep MC's as well.

Sgt. Pokes and Juakali all day long bruv. I swear, seen Pokes like 3-4 times now stateside, never seen Mala or Loefah waving him off or staring at him like "wtf are you on about?"

And Juakali has this smooth delivery, almost a Conrad/planned/honed controlled quality to his delivery. It's smooth, doesn't sound out of breath. That probably comes from spending time in the studio, more than the club. For the same reason I didn't just walk out of my bedroom and start mixing having never mixed before, people shouldn't just get up on the Mic and expect to be good, or even welcome to be on the Mic in the first place.

So to be clear(or not) it's not a loathing for MC's on my part, just the lack of quality.

"Too many Emcee's, Not Enough Skill"

Wise words.

[koast]

Why can we not celebrate where they collide

That's what I was trying to get at - while MCs need to respect the views of the majority of the crowd (and DJs) that don't want non-stop bars, the MC haters do need to recognize that the good MCs DO belong in the scene. You just came at it from a slightly different angle

[kion]

People who hate all MCs do my head in a bit, actually. "I go to a club to hear the music not some wanker talking over the top." No you don't, you chill at home with your headphones to hear the music, you go to a club to dance, drink, party, and to get a sense of community.

BINGO!!!!!!

[surface_tension]

Since we're talking about things MC's do to annoy us, how about shouting IMMEDIATELY for a reload, in the mix(if the crowd is lucky it's a mix)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAHHHH WHHOOOOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNTSS ITTTTTTT??????????

Me you dumb tnuc, now shut your arse up so I can 'ave it. Like every tune should be wheeled, as if the MC was being paid for his or her ability to select tunes. I bet you'd be the DJ and not the MC if you knew how to select and then mix the tunes that WHOOOOOOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNTS ya know?

Or having zero concept of how mind numbing it is the 3rd, 4th, 5th time a tune gets reloaded in one set. Seriously. It's time to step back. I listen to tunes on repeat at home and it annoys my girlfriend to no end. Listening to a mixdown, OVER AND OVER... again and again. I can tell it drives at her sometimes, so I will be listening to the middle of a tune and then I have like this wav of a trainwreck and a needle skipping across a record that I will randomly play and start screaming

"Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooa whooooooooooooooooooooo waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnntsssss iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttt????"

I promise you, she enjoys it every bit as much as I enjoy it. When you're "meditating on bass weight" and getting your Chakra's all lined up, you don't want some guy screaming in your ear on potentially lethal sound. MC's should maybe spend a bit more time in the studio producing tunes of their own as well, so maybe they'll see what it's like to have some ol Chap wise assing around and talking over it.

So a few new rules for MC's:

1. Do not ask to get on the mic. Never. If your name is not on that flyer, your ass is not on that Mic. For that matter, unless you are tagging with someone should there even be 2 people in the booth?

2. If, and only if, invited to get on the Mic; should you feel compelled to call for a reload, be sure it's because if you don't 4-500 people are coming into the booth to pull it for you.

3. If you didn't already know, you're not supposed to eat the Microphone. I know, they look kinda like Ice cream or a lollipop, but I promise they taste better from 3-4" from your face... for you UK(or frankly any NON American MC's) that is roughly 1/3 of a 12" vinyl distance from your face hole. Keep it there.

4. Say it, ride the beat while saying it, whatever it is.

5. Look back at the DJ for further instruction.

Notice at no point in time did I leave any room for "Oh, now would be a good time to..." or "Hey, I have heard this tune before"?

Very good reason for that, being that they aren't necessary for my good time. I don't need someone to trainspot every tune for me, or give energy to the DJ's. Damn if that's not my job as a, and are you ready for this.... DANCER


OH MY GOD, WE'RE PLAYING DANCE MUSIC???

Yes, and if you're doing it, it helps you avoid doing stupid things like picking up the mic to call for a reload while the DJ is mixing(even better when they are using ABLETON really) like they are going to wheel their magic finger across the mouse trackpad and the tune will wheel itself. Mainly we don't need stupid MC's. Smart ones are OK, or mentally challenged, but ignorant?

That doesn't fly. At least understand how the mixer works, that way when you see the DJ's hand moving toward that little knob, you shut it off so they don't have to. You should be like horns in a mixdown. Subtle, come in slowly and barely let us know you are in the building. BLOW OUR MINDS FOR A FEW SECONDS. Then shut up. Wait for a few tunes. Not the very next tune. Not the one after that. Get the picture? You aren't the picture, you aren't the even the frame. You're not the wall. Your the stud behind the wall that sits there not talking, holding the hold damn building together with a few nails and some drywall. Now hold one of two things...

VINYL/LAPTOP/CD CASE...

or the Mic, turn down/off, at your side.. wait for the signal. WAIT FOR IT, IT'S COMING I PROMISE.

[kion]

^^^ I don't even have to read all that to think what a load of absolute bollox.

Sorry. It might annoy you, but go to FWD and soak up the vibe - you might get why an MC does this. Doesn't always come across on a recording of a night (However brilliant MC GQ magnified the vibes of AWOL on the '93/94 tape packs, it did make me erk when he shouted 'WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL' when waiting at traffic lights). But at the night itself - fireworks!!!

[koast]

Since we're talking about things MC's do to annoy us, how about shouting IMMEDIATELY for a reload, in the mix(if the crowd is lucky it's a mix)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAHHHH WHHOOOOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNTSS ITTTTTTT??????????

Me you dumb tnuc, now shut your arse up so I can 'ave it. Like every tune should be wheeled, as if the MC was being paid for his or her ability to select tunes. I bet you'd be the DJ and not the MC if you knew how to select and then mix the tunes that WHOOOOOOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNTS ya know?

Or having zero concept of how mind numbing it is the 3rd, 4th, 5th time a tune gets reloaded in one set. Seriously. It's time to step back. I listen to tunes on repeat at home and it annoys my girlfriend to no end. Listening to a mixdown, OVER AND OVER... again and again. I can tell it drives at her sometimes, so I will be listening to the middle of a tune and then I have like this wav of a trainwreck and a needle skipping across a record that I will randomly play and start screaming

"Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooa whooooooooooooooooooooo waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnntsssss iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttt????"

I promise you, she enjoys it every bit as much as I enjoy it. When you're "meditating on bass weight" and getting your Chakra's all lined up, you don't want some guy screaming in your ear on potentially lethal sound. MC's should maybe spend a bit more time in the studio producing tunes of their own as well, so maybe they'll see what it's like to have some ol Chap wise assing around and talking over it.

So a few new rules for MC's:

1. Do not ask to get on the mic. Never. If your name is not on that flyer, your ass is not on that Mic. For that matter, unless you are tagging with someone should there even be 2 people in the booth?

2. If, and only if, invited to get on the Mic; should you feel compelled to call for a reload, be sure it's because if you don't 4-500 people are coming into the booth to pull it for you.

3. If you didn't already know, you're not supposed to eat the Microphone. I know, they look kinda like Ice cream or a lollipop, but I promise they taste better from 3-4" from your face... for you UK(or frankly any NON American MC's) that is roughly 1/3 of a 12" vinyl distance from your face hole. Keep it there.

4. Say it, ride the beat while saying it, whatever it is.

5. Look back at the DJ for further instruction.

Notice at no point in time did I leave any room for "Oh, now would be a good time to..." or "Hey, I have heard this tune before"?

Very good reason for that, being that they aren't necessary for my good time. I don't need someone to trainspot every tune for me, or give energy to the DJ's. Damn if that's not my job as a, and are you ready for this.... DANCER


OH MY GOD, WE'RE PLAYING DANCE MUSIC???

Yes, and if you're doing it, it helps you avoid doing stupid things like picking up the mic to call for a reload while the DJ is mixing(even better when they are using ABLETON really) like they are going to wheel their magic finger across the mouse trackpad and the tune will wheel itself. Mainly we don't need stupid MC's. Smart ones are OK, or mentally challenged, but ignorant?

That doesn't fly. At least understand how the mixer works, that way when you see the DJ's hand moving toward that little knob, you shut it off so they don't have to. You should be like horns in a mixdown. Subtle, come in slowly and barely let us know you are in the building. BLOW OUR MINDS FOR A FEW SECONDS. Then shut up. Wait for a few tunes. Not the very next tune. Not the one after that. Get the picture? You aren't the picture, you aren't the even the frame. You're not the wall. Your the stud behind the wall that sits there not talking, holding the hold damn building together with a few nails and some drywall. Now hold one of two things...

VINYL/LAPTOP/CD CASE...

or the Mic, turn down/off, at your side.. wait for the signal. WAIT FOR IT, IT'S COMING I PROMISE.

I hope you realise how partonizing that comes across. Your earlier post was a well reasoned argument, this is just hating, pure & simple. You must just know some shit MCs

[drifterman_]

Rap MC's on dubstep = dunn outz
Drum & Bass MC's on dubstep = dunn outz
Str8 grime... and no Skepta/JME/Flodan etc