any anti-capitalists/socialists in here?

[MikeE]

All you socialists.... do you have a problem with me taking your records because I "need" them more?

You know, from each according to their means, to each according to their needs and all that shit.

[MikeE]

When it comes to the crunch, even commies believe in private property rights, but only for themselves, not for the people.

[j-sh]

Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia by John Gray is an astoundingly good read. Just try not to shout out "fucking bastards!" when you're on a train full of commuters whilst reading it (it will make you want to do that...)

John Gray = legend

[kay]

Anyone who still thinks communism and/or socialism in general could somehow work in this day and age...or in any day and age considering the woeful fucking FAILURES of all the nations who have tried it is a fucking idiot.

"Communism" and/or "socialism" as practiced by those countries were failures because they weren't true communism or socialism. The ideas were perverted by humans, as always.

Turn the question on it's head: how's capitalism doing these days? We're in a global recession with some countries completely bankrupt, the relentless need to make the most money without care for the world around you is leading to an environmental disaster, wars are being fought where wars don't need to be fought, wars are not being fought where wars need to be fought. Seems to me that capitalism has fallen on it's own sword a mere 15 years after communism.

Forget either ideology. In fact, forget discussing or having any meaningful idealogies until the majority of the people on the planet have the chance to be educated meaningfully, to be taught logic and reason, to have the will to be less self-centred for the greater good. Until such a time, power will always lie in the hands of the demagogues, who more often than not, will twist idealogies to their own designs. There is no greater evidence of this than the fact that we're all still embroiled in a number of baseless religious wars that have lasted for a couple thousand years! The only thing that has changed there is that it is now global rather than regional.

[the acid never lies]

^

[firky]

All you socialists.... do you have a problem with me taking your records because I "need" them more?

You know, from each according to their means, to each according to their needs and all that shit.

That's not quite how it works

Little point in explaining it to you if you can't get your head around abstract things - only black and white.

[feral witchchild]

"Communism" and/or "socialism" as practiced by those countries were failures because they weren't true communism or socialism. The ideas were perverted by humans, as always.

Well, yes, of course, I can't argue with that. Both certainly seem appealing on paper but realistically, neither could ever truly exist because of human nature. There will never be true equality. Hierarchies of power will always exist, regardless of whether it's party leaders, monarchs, presidents, prime ministers or whatever else at the top.

Turn the question on it's head: how's capitalism doing these days? We're in a global recession with some countries completely bankrupt, the relentless need to make the most money without care for the world around you is leading to an environmental disaster, wars are being fought where wars don't need to be fought, wars are not being fought where wars need to be fought. Seems to me that capitalism has fallen on it's own sword a mere 15 years after communism.

I agree with you, I certainly don't espouse it as an alternative or think of it as a perfect way of doing things at all.

Forget either ideology. In fact, forget discussing or having any meaningful idealogies until the majority of the people on the planet have the chance to be educated meaningfully, to be taught logic and reason, to have the will to be less self-centred for the greater good. Until such a time, power will always lie in the hands of the demagogues, who more often than not, will twist idealogies to their own designs. There is no greater evidence of this than the fact that we're all still embroiled in a number of baseless religious wars that have lasted for a couple thousand years! The only thing that has changed there is that it is now global rather than regional.

:/

[fuagofire]

Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia by John Gray is an astoundingly good read. Just try not to shout out "fucking bastards!" when you're on a train full of commuters whilst reading it (it will make you want to do that...)

John Gray = legend

half way through that - very good read.