"Obama Deserved It!"

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hurlingdervish
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by hurlingdervish » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:35 pm

collige wrote: Tesla has their own parts providers and unless they magically explode to the same level of manufacturing as GM that isn't gonna cut it. It would amount to the same thing as the government financing Tesla themselves, which is a ridiculous idea in a (relatively) free-market economy.

The bailout may have been disguised welfare, but I would prefer welfare to several million people who are suddenly without jobs (and thus health insurance) in the middle of a recession.
i'll bite.

so who besides the millionaires who run the company works there?
-engineers ...no problem there, they can find work
-human resources....in demand everywhere
-public relations...in demand everywhere
-factory workers...can work at the tesla factory
tesla cars, hybrids, they will all still use leather, steel, electronics, seatbelts the change is ramped up to be dangerous by the companies PR so it doesn't happen.

obviously im paraphrasing but if you look at the individual skill sets of each person working in these companies it becomes a non-issue to get them working somewhere else.

as for healthcare
even though totally free healthcare is more than possible by freeing up the money spend on war to pay everyones salary, a public option makes sense as a transitory stage.

but thats a compromise....the insurance companies are nothing but bastard middle men, and by allowing such a leech on society to exist we are harming ourselves morally much more than any fiscal concerns

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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by collige » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:50 pm

hurlingdervish wrote: -factory workers...can work at the tesla factory


obviously im paraphrasing but if you look at the individual skill sets of each person working in these companies it becomes a non-issue to get them working somewhere else.

as for healthcare
even though totally free healthcare is more than possible by freeing up the money spend on war to pay everyones salary, a public option makes sense as a transitory stage.

but thats a compromise....the insurance companies are nothing but bastard middle men, and by allowing such a leech on society to exist we are harming ourselves morally much more than any fiscal concerns
I can't imagine all of GM's international factory workers getting jobs working for a small American electric car company unless they suddenly buy a bunch of factories and ramp up production. Who's gonna pay for that? Not Tesla, they obviously don't have the money. Who decided that Tesla gets all these free employees as opposed to any other car company?

Plus, if GM failed, it would affect more than just American people. The American government is in no position to find jobs for Chinese workers as a result of this.

As for health, I'm not opposed to a universal health care system, but realistically speaking, it's not gonna happen.
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:54 pm

collige wrote:The bailout may have been disguised welfare, but I would prefer welfare to several million people who are suddenly without jobs (and thus health insurance) in the middle of a recession.
then give them welfare and health insurance, it comes with enough time to find a useful job or learn new skills plus a grip on reality
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by collige » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:57 pm

alien pimp wrote: it's just a disguised welfare leaching the people who are really doing something useful
then give them welfare
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hurlingdervish
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by hurlingdervish » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:59 pm

collige wrote: I can't imagine all of GM's international factory workers getting jobs working for a small American electric car company unless they suddenly buy a bunch of factories and ramp up production. Who's gonna pay for that? Not Tesla, they obviously don't have the money. Who decided that Tesla gets all these free employees as opposed to any other car company?
copout. it doesn't have to be tesla, it was just an easy example. the car companies could also be forced to reform or face severe charges..think billions.
if our system doesn't allow for change that is needed to secure our future than they should change the laws.
make oil illegal. make it illegal to produce cars with gas mileage below 200 mpg. its more than possible. dismantle the oil companies, or force them to fund the change.
Plus, if GM failed, it would affect more than just American people. The American government is in no position to find jobs for Chinese workers as a result of this.
GM doesn't have to be destroyed, they can be bought and changed into something realistic to our needs.

the corporation runs like a sociopath. no regard for others, only profit margins, play by their rules and we are all fucked.
they have to play by our rules.

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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by collige » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:04 am

hurlingdervish wrote:
collige wrote: I can't imagine all of GM's international factory workers getting jobs working for a small American electric car company unless they suddenly buy a bunch of factories and ramp up production. Who's gonna pay for that? Not Tesla, they obviously don't have the money. Who decided that Tesla gets all these free employees as opposed to any other car company?
copout. it doesn't have to be tesla, it was just an easy example. the car companies could also be forced to reform or face severe charges..think billions.
if our system doesn't allow for change that is needed to secure our future than they should change the laws.
make oil illegal. make it illegal to produce cars with gas mileage below 200 mpg. its more than possible. dismantle the oil companies, or force them to fund the change.
Plus, if GM failed, it would affect more than just American people. The American government is in no position to find jobs for Chinese workers as a result of this.
GM doesn't have to be destroyed, they can be bought and changed into something realistic to our needs.

the corporation runs like a sociopath. no regard for others, only profit margins, play by their rules and we are all fucked.
they have to play by our rules.
I agree 100%. But in the argument of

Bailout GM

vs.

let it die and let the economy "fix itself"

I'm for the bailout all the way.
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:09 am

collige wrote:
alien pimp wrote: it's just a disguised welfare leaching the people who are really doing something useful
then give them welfare
exactly!
why disguise the shit, go all the way around the straight line and flood the market with crap nobody wants and give those people the fake feeling they are doing a good thing? so many lies for what?
keep it real - always the best way
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by hurlingdervish » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:10 am

it is wasted money because we wont ever set terms of agreement

terms
1. 200 mpg
2. fade out gas entirely
etc

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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by collige » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:16 am

alien pimp wrote:
collige wrote:
alien pimp wrote: it's just a disguised welfare leaching the people who are really doing something useful
then give them welfare
exactly!
why disguise the shit, go all the way around the straight line and flood the market with crap nobody wants and give those people the fake feeling they are doing a good thing? so many lies for what?
keep it real - always the best way
At least they're doing something - people tend to get into trouble when they have nothing to do all day.
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by hurlingdervish » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:19 am

collige wrote:
alien pimp wrote:
collige wrote:
alien pimp wrote: it's just a disguised welfare leaching the people who are really doing something useful
then give them welfare
exactly!
why disguise the shit, go all the way around the straight line and flood the market with crap nobody wants and give those people the fake feeling they are doing a good thing? so many lies for what?
keep it real - always the best way
At least they're doing something - people tend to get into trouble when they have nothing to do all day.
people get into trouble when they work 12 hours of factory work to come home and smoke crack with hookers

people are gonna do bad shit anyway

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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:30 am

collige wrote:
alien pimp wrote:
collige wrote:
alien pimp wrote: it's just a disguised welfare leaching the people who are really doing something useful
then give them welfare
exactly!
why disguise the shit, go all the way around the straight line and flood the market with crap nobody wants and give those people the fake feeling they are doing a good thing? so many lies for what?
keep it real - always the best way
At least they're doing something - people tend to get into trouble when they have nothing to do all day.
ah, so in the end it came down to this solid one!
let's keep GM alive and do all that trickery so the mofo's won't get bored and start bashing shit....
dude, that's pure communism and it failed big time
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by collige » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:38 am

The failure of communism was and always will be the result of greedy politicians.
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:10 am

dropping here a truism won't make that other shit sound any better
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by darkartois » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:35 am

I'm back in the UK after 2 years of literal hell in the US. I had an accident which left my knee fucked but I'm treated like dirt as I've no insurance, no MRI, just jog on son.

Back home and appointment with my GP, referred for an X-Ray same day, MRI next week and the care I need. Of course just a minute example of frustrations but the case of Eric De La Cruz, a fine D&B DJ from Las Vegas is fucked. Eric needed a heart transplant but had no insurance, he couldn't obtain insurance because of his condition, so, left to die at 27 years old?! Congressmen, senators, none gave a fuck. Fuck all that.

The NHS has it's flaws, my local hospital could do with a lick of paint, waiting lists can be tedious but above all we aren't told "tough shit lad, your poor."

Citizens of the US need to group together, get fucking mad, and have a voice!! Every issue just gets swept under the rug. MP's in the UK claim expenses, there's an outcry and it gets sorted. That's nothing compared the the absolute bullshit the US people have to suffer with but again it's like or lump it. 9/11 has so many things that don't add up at all but it's all just put down to conspiracy theorists with their wacky idea's. Get some fucking balls as a nation and make yourself heard. The country is a sad joke and I'm so fucking glad I'm British with a decent home to go back to.

I really feel for the people of New Orleans, and the millions on the streets with nobody giving a fuck. It's nice to drive around at home and not have people starving at every light hoping for some change for food. A hardcore audit into government spending is needed with money better spent on whats important, clearly, the lives and well being of it's citizens.

None of this will ever come close to happening until people there burst their capitalistic dog-eat-dog, fuck-thy-neighbour bubble and actually want change.

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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:48 am

probably few things count as much as experiencing both on your own skin! get well man!

funny though how you inserted that shit about 9/11 in the post with no connection whatsoever to the rest of the post, felt like i was zapping in the middle of a documentary :lol:
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by darkartois » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:59 am

alien pimp wrote:probably few things count as much as experiencing both on your own skin! get well man!

funny though how you inserted that shit about 9/11 in the post with no connection whatsoever to the rest of the post, felt like i was zapping in the middle of a documentary :lol:
It's all connected, topic being the US, IMHO, is absolutely fucked, and 9/11 is an example of how nothing gets questioned, or done about it, which led me to saying how you all need to get MAD!!! grrr!!! get angry!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Do hope the NHS does me proud and fixes me so I can feel 25 again.


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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by hurlingdervish » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:24 am

darkartois wrote:
alien pimp wrote:probably few things count as much as experiencing both on your own skin! get well man!

funny though how you inserted that shit about 9/11 in the post with no connection whatsoever to the rest of the post, felt like i was zapping in the middle of a documentary :lol:
It's all connected, topic being the US, IMHO, is absolutely fucked, and 9/11 is an example of how nothing gets questioned, or done about it, which led me to saying how you all need to get MAD!!! grrr!!! get angry!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
the wrong people are angry and they always get the last word.


it starts with the media....shut down fox...limbaugh....and then we have a start

even if you make 100 amazing points why healthcare should be free, they will come at you with some completely nonsensical point ignoring all humanity in the matter...and their voice is always louder, because it has a million ignorant people behind it.

england's system works because of how small the country is, the people are very diverse, but they are all similar in some way despite classes.
in the US there are wayyy too many different people tugging and pulling on the same country, its never worked in past instances (rome for one), never will work, we need to go back to giving full power to individual states' government!

that way we can have it all our own way and eventually develop into separate healthy countries like europe after rome.

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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:55 am

it's all connected, that and much much more, if not everything, but when talking about one topic then flashing briefly to one of the thousands of things connected, then going back like it wasn't even there... dunno :)

and honestly, from where i stand the over all image of uk and us is not really different, just at detail level, details that sum up to the same dictatorship of the the big capitals supported by easily programmable drones. so no need to show any superiority, some things that are better on one side are compensated by others that are worse

anyway, the biggest mistake would be to think things at a national level imho, things are global now, nations exist only formally
i always say follow the money!
wanna bet many insurance companies in us run with funds coming from many other states, primarily uk i'd guess?
wanna bet the federal reserve policies are run by overseas interests too?
List of the Primary Government Securities Dealers Reporting to the Government Securities Dealers Statistics Unit of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York

BNP Paribas Securities Corp.
Banc of America Securities LLC
Barclays Capital Inc.
Cantor Fitzgerald & Co.
Citigroup Global Markets Inc.
Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC
Daiwa Securities America Inc.
Deutsche Bank Securities Inc.
Goldman, Sachs & Co.
HSBC Securities (USA) Inc.
Jefferies & Company, Inc.
J. P. Morgan Securities Inc.
Mizuho Securities USA Inc.
Morgan Stanley & Co. Incorporated
Nomura Securities International, Inc.
RBC Capital Markets Corporation
RBS Securities Inc.
UBS Securities LLC.
http://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/pride ... rrent.html

all those play a role in all decisions, including those regarding the huge healthcare market in US. people don't.
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Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:47 pm

wanna bet this guy's for real on this one?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 880877.ece

“The base of the terrorists and rebels has not been in Iran. They are trained by America and Britain in some of the neighbouring countries,” he said.
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