indiestep

[ufo over easy]

I'm curious now

[gravious]

In all seriousness though, this is quite ignorable.

My only real worry is that some horrific mix CDs might be taped to the front of some big magazines, mixing this lot with whatever else NME and co. might see as Grime/Dubstep/Grindie etc, and people will hear it and think:

"Oh, this is that dubstep/grime stuff... Its rubbish." And never give it a chance

Kind of like listening to Puretone - Addicted to Bass, and saying "Jungle is shit"

[elgato]

nah that theyre benefiting from the narrow-mindedness (racism is too complicated to assume without a bigger discussion) of others. playing up to a situation which i find depressing

But where is that latent racism? I don't see it. It doesn't surprise me if indie kids like hadouken and don't like grime - it's because of their backgrounds, both musical and more generally. Not everyone is as open minded as us (:P) and I don't see why they have to be. If you think they're making fun of other scenes, that's your reading.. counter to what you're saying as well, the lyrics explicitly make fun of indie.

a question to ask - im not claiming to be able to explain it, but food for thought - why do the indie kids prefer to watch some ppl make grime which directly assaults them and their identity, over some other ppl which make grime which talks about real problems? or makes them think outside of their immediate lives? is it just cos its got guitars? i dunno

[scarecrow]

To be honest, I know Dr Venom used to write rhymes a few years back, and he was pretty fucking good.
I guess he tried to come from a different angle or something. But it just stinks of corperate brainstorming, yknow?
"Tell you what Larry.... no ones done that Grime business yet"
"My good god, you're right tarquin, "

[scarecrow]

I see another 15 page thread coming, im outta here.

[ufo over easy]

a question to ask - im not claiming to be able to explain it, but food for thought - why do the indie kids prefer to watch some ppl make grime which directly assaults them and their identity, over some other ppl which make grime which talks about real problems? or makes them think outside of their immediate lives? is it just cos its got guitars? i dunno

Yeah it's interesting.. probably loads of different reasons. But I'm pretty sure it's not cos they're white

I think I'd be more convinced by your arguments if you bought up class rather than race. I definitely think there's something in that. But the problem with that suggestion is that there's no real way to distinguish between classist prejudice and the fact that the content of a Hadouken track will speak to indie kids and art students about their lives more than a gritty wiley vocal tune.

[autonomic]

@ Ben re: latent racism - read my post a page or two back.

@ Shonky - i don't think it will "do" anything "to" grime or dubstep. it's the sociopathic approach to culture that i described above that's the issue.

[ufo over easy]

@ Ben re: latent racism - read my post a page or two back. it's all there.

I did man, I'm just not totally convinced

[farina]

hehe, my god, what have i started...?

well personally i don't mind anyone digging on whatever kind of music they're feeling. most people here i'm sure will agree really. tension between musical scenes is a healthy process... insular at times, for sure... but people are just doing their thing and you can't bitch at someone for not liking what you're into*. I don't really give a toss about hadouken or whoever, i was just raising the issue of how indie music (british indie music in particular) propagates underground sounds and movements and reprocesses them endlessly into a radio-friendly, corporate-friendly brand which can be marketable to all the millions of kidz who only get their musical pointers from NME and MTV etc, etc, etc (and this is also much to do with what autonomic was saying about indie kids being pseudo-ironic and pretending they love public enemy etc). This is a cyclical thing, of course (like everything else in the world), and is mostly created by the same people who will consume it. Of course on occasion this can throw up some pretty sweet tunes (though i struggle to find an example at the moment), yet for all the validity of the 'it's just pop music' argument I still don't think it's fundamentally wrong to be opposed to such a process at a time when major labels and supermarkets have an almost monopolic control over popular music. Wasn't stuff like myspace meant to be the end for that shit? In the end it's just ones and zeroes, binary differences between overground and underground will always remain, and everytime mainstream culture consumes an underground movement, our precious underground will create new avenues (and tunnels, hehe), and the cycle starts again.

anyway, i'm talking bollocks.

* though of course it is fun, in jest

[elgato]

Yeah it's interesting.. probably loads of different reasons. But I'm pretty sure it's not cos they're white

I think I'd be more convinced by your arguments if you bought up class rather than race. I definitely think there's something in that. But the problem with that suggestion is that there's no real way to distinguish between classist prejudice and the fact that the content of a Hadouken track will speak to indie kids and art students about their lives more than a gritty wiley vocal tune.

yeh the race issue is obviously very complicated

although i feel too much emphasis has been placed on that element of what i was saying - that which i did was tentative - narrow minded was the key thrust - and that applies (although obviously much less seriously) even if it is just about thinking outside of insular worlds

anyways im very tired and need to go home so im audi

[el sudor]

its basically grime and indie - grindie???? are they not just taking the grindie sound a step further?

i think they have used the dubstep word instead of grime or indie as the buzz around these genres is not as hot as dubstep, espescially as grindie has been and gone.

on their myspace remix page they site fwd>> as being an influence...... so i dunno, expect to see some new rave type throwbacks headnodding to loefa tomo night.

this stuff aint bad really. a lot of peoples seem to have got uptight because they are using the dubstep name in vain and are there for not really giving this stuff a chance..... possibly writing it off in the same way it is feared that the indie kids might write dubstep off.

what would the house peoples think of the bootleg remix of "the way i love you" or what ever its called - that mr cheffal played the other night?

its not as geenius or what ever the trendy magasines are making it out to be, but it still aint as awful in my opinion as some are making out.

if commercial radio stations played more varied music, it might make them more bareable to listen to...... so any thing different and along these lines is better than a sugar babes and girls aloud colabbo of a cover of a run dmc vs aerosmith tune.

[autonomic]

i brought up the race thing mainly because that was one of the first things that struck me based on personal experience. but yes, it is complicated and class figures in in a way that is just a bit foreign to north americans (i.e. not that we don't have it, but the cultural treatment of it is different).

good thread though!

[ufo over easy]

although i feel too much emphasis has been placed on that element of what i was saying - that which i did was tentative - narrow minded was the key thrust - and that applies (although obviously much less seriously) even if it is just about thinking outside of insular worlds

anyways im very tired and need to go home so im audi

your chest

[shonky]

@ Shonky - i don't think it will "do" anything "to" grime or dubstep. it's the sociopathic approach to culture that i described above that's the issue.

I think if you look at loads of the 80's soft rock that grime's sped up and pillaged in the last few years (that Died in my Arms tune for a start), I can't imagine that was treated with due respect, as well it shouldn't.

With regards to sociopathic approach to culture, do you think that using reggae samples without mention (or in some cases even knowledge) of the original is the same?

I can imagine this doing a lot better than a lot of grime acts purely because it's easier to understand without knowledge of the slang and will appeal to indie kids a lot more. And they'll probably be bored to fuck by most dubstep, so no worries of Fratelli's remixes or anything

[ufo over easy]

I think if you look at loads of the 80's soft rock that grime's sped up and pillaged in the last few years (that Died in my Arms tune for a start), I can't imagine that was treated with due respect, as well it shouldn't.

Slightly different though innit, seeing as Rapid et al have no connection with soft rock whatsoever, whereas it appears dr venom was pretty involved with grime.

[farina]

Got a feeling that (and in one case certainty) that probably some of the disses are coming from people that used to play in indie bands but didn't do quite so well - heh heh heh

This is probably the right time to admit, I used to play bass in the longpigs

[shonky]

I think if you look at loads of the 80's soft rock that grime's sped up and pillaged in the last few years (that Died in my Arms tune for a start), I can't imagine that was treated with due respect, as well it shouldn't.

Slightly different though innit, seeing as Rapid et al have no connection with soft rock whatsoever, whereas it appears dr venom was pretty involved with grime.

Shouldn't mention Goldie here then really should we I guess

[autonomic]

Got a feeling that (and in one case certainty) that probably some of the disses are coming from people that used to play in indie bands but didn't do quite so well - heh heh heh

if you mean me, i wasn't.

Edit: nevermind

[ufo over easy]

Shouldn't mention Goldie here then really should we I guess

Never. Apprently if you say his name three times...

This is probably the right time to admit, I used to play bass in the longpigs

wow, I just wiki'd you guys, looks like you were pretty big

[el sudor]

indies answer to the boy better knowt shirt?



"get your Hs out. send pics to hadoukentheband@hotmail.com"