Cracked software = cracked sound

[Killamike49]

I think the point huts was trying to make, is that it's like listening to a preview on beatport. You don't get the whole tune, and most of the time the tunes being manipulated in one way or another anyway.

It's not like listening to a preview on beatport, because you don't possess the file like you do with a mix. All I'm saying is that if you get so up in arms about piracy, owning a mix with finished tunes on it is essentially the same thing. It's one thing if you own every single song from the mix, but most people don't. And these same people are always the first to raise their arms and talk about how terrible piracy is.

I see your point man. This debate is always construed as the white knights versus the scum of the internet though.

[Today]

ffs its nothing to do with format or sound quality
if its in a mix, it's already been mixed. You can't play it out, you have zero ability to play back the composition as it was released, from top to tail
It's part principle, part practical. If you were a DJ you wouldn't get bookings just by going out and playing a mix you downloaded, or even a tiny part of the mix in order to drop a particular tune. You don't have the ability to drop that tune. You can't mix it with a different tune of your choosing. You can't wheel it, you can't start it form the beginning, you can't let it play out to the end. It's so obvious
Even if you aren't a DJ, if you've downloaded a free mix you haven't violated anyone's IP rights . The DJ presumably bought the tunes they played in the mix, and they are unaccessible in their complete and separate form by the subsequent listener(s).

downloading mixes, and anything to do with mixes, is so far removed from anything having to do with this debate, it's actually really frustrating to see it appear in the conversation.
Come on.

[dickman69]

Yo does anyone have a plug-in to make that cracked sound?

Ive been after that cracked sound, figured there's a VST effect that does it

any suggestions????

[cmgoodman1226]

ffs its nothing to do with format or sound quality
if its in a mix, it's already been mixed. You can't play it out, you have zero ability to play back the composition as it was released, from top to tail
It's part principle, part practical. If you were a DJ you wouldn't get bookings just by going out and playing a mix you downloaded, or even a tiny part of the mix in order to drop a particular tune. You don't have the ability to drop that tune. You can't mix it with a different tune of your choosing. You can't wheel it, you can't start it form the beginning, you can't let it play out to the end. It's so obvious
Even if you aren't a DJ, if you've downloaded a free mix you haven't violated anyone's IP rights . The DJ presumably bought the tunes they played in the mix, and they are unaccessible in their complete and separate form by the subsequent listener(s).

downloading mixes, and anything to do with mixes, is so far removed from anything having to do with this debate, it's actually really frustrating to see it appear in the conversation.
Come on.

Being able to drop the tune in a set is erroneous. People pirate all sorts of music that isn't mean for the dancefloor. You're still in possession of something that you have no rights to, something that was mean to be sold. You can draw these arbitrary lines in the sand all you want, but frankly it doesn't change anything. Just because the DJ "presumably" bought the tunes in the mix (which a lot of times you have no way of really knowing) does not equate to giving you the free license to own it.

What you're basically saying is that since it's not the whole song in the mix, it's ok. So I'll pirate somebody's album, take and edit out so I'm left with my favorite minute or so of each song, and then delete the rest. I should be in the clear right? after all, I can't really drop it in a set, and I can no longer listen to the song in its entirety.

[Today]

no, it isn't an arbitrary line in the sand.
If we aren't talking about dance music, why would anyone be discussing downloadable mixes anyway? How often does someone post a rock and roll mix?
by saying the DJ might've pirated the tunes in the mix anyway, you aren't defending pirating, you're only making a stronger case against it. We SHOULD be able to presume they are legitimately obtained copies. the fact that we can't make that presumption is just part of the issue and is a moot point at best.

The music as heard in a mix isn't meant to be sold. The tunes are meant to be sold by themselves to people who want to either mix them themselves, or listen to them separately. How is that unclear?

[cmgoodman1226]

no, it isn't an arbitrary line in the sand.
If we aren't talking about dance music, why would anyone be discussing downloadable mixes anyway? How often does someone post a rock and roll mix?
by saying the DJ might've pirated the tunes in the mix anyway, you aren't defending pirating, you're only making a stronger case against it. We SHOULD be able to presume they are legitimately obtained copies. the fact that we can't make that presumption is just part of the issue and is a moot point at best.

The music as heard in a mix isn't meant to be sold. The tunes are meant to be sold by themselves to people who want to either mix them themselves, or listen to them separately. How is that unclear?

Clearly you haven't read my original post. I am NOT arguing FOR piracy. I am against piracy. I don't really know how you got that I'm for it, but I'm not.

My only point about was I was talking about music in a broader sense, not just for the sake of using music to play out to an audience.

And if you aren't the original artist, why do you get to decide what is or isn't meant to be sold? Just because it's in the context of a mix and isn't the whole song gives you the right to decide whether or not to buy the tunes in said mix? If you go and download an all skream mix released from skream himself, then absolutely that's fine, as he's giving it away, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

[Almighty Alias]

If you have the money, your gonna buy it. If you don't, your gonna steal it. The main reason people steal it is because it cost so damn much, its out of soooo many peoples price ranges (unless your talking Reaper or cheaper vst's). If the price of DAW's were 100 bucks, more kids could afford it and in the long run I think they would make the same amount of money.... plus they would have more legitamit users. Everyone though Reaper would go under after a year or two because its so cheap, but their still kicking.

As long as the prices are so high, people will steal it. Company's need more deals are well. I love the native instruments thanksgiving sale they always have.... synths half off! I got Massive & FM8 for 100 bucks each. That's a good deal worth waiting for. I don't make much money, so I wait until thanksgiving each year to get more vst's from NI. I always email other company's and tell them they should have deals like their competitor native instruments, but they never do. If albino was half off, I would have bought that last year, but insted I got FM8 because it was half off... a deal to good to pass up.

If you give people deals to good to pass up, they will buy your shit! I had a cracked version of massive, but when NI had it for 100 bucks, I bought the thing. The deal was so good, that someone that already had the produce still bought it.

[Today]

the line in the sand exists, but it isn't arbitrary -- it's based on what can be protected and what should be protected
Mixes can't be. it's too much legwork and the scenes don't support that strict of a rule because we see a difference in the value and the ubiquity of amateur/downloadable mixes

Singles, albums and discographies can't really be protected either, in reality, but they definitely should be. Then we could know the DJ's paid for them, and the content of the mixes was legit, they procured their goods legally, and made something new out of it for us to freely enjoy. Just to play devil's advocate, why is this different than nicking someone's tune to use in a video?

When you add someone's music to another production on another medium, it brings added value to the piece and, unless the producer sucks, it required a lossless copy of the single audio file. it's commercial use, to make motion picture carry more meaning. It's not mixing songs with other songs.

If you used someone's DJ mix in a video without their permission, that's just rudeness. Can't really say i think they should have copyright on their mix of other people's songs, unless it were something licensed/commissioned, like dubstep allstars mixes for example.

Just because it's in the context of a mix and isn't the whole song gives you the right to decide whether or not to buy the tunes in said mix? If you go and download an all skream mix released from skream himself, then absolutely that's fine, as he's giving it away, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

not rly sure what that means, you always have the right to buy or not buy the tunes you hear in a mix. But someone should've had to pay for the masters. the mix is inherently a different audio file; there are too many of them to enforce, it's too strict a rule and artists don't want that enforced. They want their masters protected. like i said, it's part principle, part practical. The principle being the standalone lossless master audio file is the artist's IP, they created it. In a mix, it's been paid for (presumably) and being shared in a new context. The practical part being, mix downloaders can't drop the tune or spin it by itself without going and buying it.

If you have the money, your gonna buy it. If you don't, your gonna steal it.

this is more valid for high priced software.. but for music, that's bullshit. Any preteen with a decent allowance can go music shopping for the stuff they want to listen to. I grew up without a lot of money. I got a shitty job and got a little from my dad once in a while, and i went to the record store every weekend. And I wasn't even that big of a fan back then. It's just what we did. all the kids from my neighborhood went and did that, because we all had something we wanted to put in our stereos. We shared some of the shit directly p2p (as in face to face, burning CD's for each other) but not this torrent tracking mass piracy bullshit.

[OfficialDAPT]

If you have the money, your gonna buy it. If you don't, your gonna steal it.

this is more valid for high priced software.. but for music, that's bullshit. Any preteen with a decent allowance can go music shopping for the stuff they want to listen to. I grew up without a lot of money. I got a shitty job and got a little from my dad once in a while, and i went to the record store every weekend. And I wasn't even that big of a fan back then. It's just what we did. all the kids from my neighborhood went and did that, because we all had something we wanted to put in our stereos. We shared some of the shit directly p2p (as in face to face, burning CD's for each other) but not this torrent tracking mass piracy bullshit.[/quote]

Agreed, pirating music is just like punching the artist in the face, pirating Music Software is like punching the developers in the face, but they deserved it for pricing their products so high.

[VirtualMark]

this is more valid for high priced software.. but for music, that's bullshit. Any preteen with a decent allowance can go music shopping for the stuff they want to listen to. I grew up without a lot of money. I got a shitty job and got a little from my dad once in a while, and i went to the record store every weekend. And I wasn't even that big of a fan back then. It's just what we did. all the kids from my neighborhood went and did that, because we all had something we wanted to put in our stereos. We shared some of the shit directly p2p (as in face to face, burning CD's for each other) but not this torrent tracking mass piracy bullshit.

Wow Today, you're my hero. Not only are you fighting the evil crime lords that download torrents, you also admit that its ok break the law if you do it on a smaller scale. Wow, glad we cleared that up.

[OfficialDAPT]

this is more valid for high priced software.. but for music, that's bullshit. Any preteen with a decent allowance can go music shopping for the stuff they want to listen to. I grew up without a lot of money. I got a shitty job and got a little from my dad once in a while, and i went to the record store every weekend. And I wasn't even that big of a fan back then. It's just what we did. all the kids from my neighborhood went and did that, because we all had something we wanted to put in our stereos. We shared some of the shit directly p2p (as in face to face, burning CD's for each other) but not this torrent tracking mass piracy bullshit.

Wow Today, you're my hero. Not only are you fighting the evil crime lords that download torrents, you also admit that its ok break the law if you do it on a smaller scale. Wow, glad we cleared that up.

Pretty sure you're being sarcastic but I can't tell

[cmgoodman1226]

If you have the money, your gonna buy it. If you don't, your gonna steal it.

this is more valid for high priced software.. but for music, that's bullshit. Any preteen with a decent allowance can go music shopping for the stuff they want to listen to. I grew up without a lot of money. I got a shitty job and got a little from my dad once in a while, and i went to the record store every weekend. And I wasn't even that big of a fan back then. It's just what we did. all the kids from my neighborhood went and did that, because we all had something we wanted to put in our stereos. We shared some of the shit directly p2p (as in face to face, burning CD's for each other) but not this torrent tracking mass piracy bullshit.

Agreed, pirating music is just like punching the artist in the face, pirating Music Software is like punching the developers in the face, but they deserved it for pricing their products so high.[/quote]

Do you know how much analogue gear costs? the conversion to software is just a fraction of the price. And they charge so much because people pay that much. It isn't some magic price that the developers came up with; it's a mixture of covering the costs it took to make the software and how much people are willing to pay. If NI didn't make money from the prices they've set, the price would go down, or they would go out of business. I'm sorry but I think a lot of the products are worth every penny of their price. The developers spent a lot of time to create something great, and in the grand scheme of things they prices they charge are not astronomical at all.

[JHolland]

Interesting thread and I think there are valid points being made on both sides of the argument. First off, cracked software certainly doesn't equate to "cracked sound," nobody is re-writing the engine, they are just removing the protection. Now I will admit, I have used pirated software in the past, but right now I am happy to say that every program on my computer has been purchased. To me it is just an overall good feeling to have legit, licensed software at your use. When you buy, you will always have access to the latest versions, bug fixes, etc., you don't have to worry about downloading any packaged viruses or spyware that might come attached with a file, and most importantly, you are supporting companies who provide you with the tools to do something that is important to you which is make music. Also I know that for me personally, I am much more inclined to take the time to actually learn the programs when I buy them rather than download some cracked copy for free. Nothing but positives when you buy software.

[OfficialDAPT]

If you have the money, your gonna buy it. If you don't, your gonna steal it.

this is more valid for high priced software.. but for music, that's bullshit. Any preteen with a decent allowance can go music shopping for the stuff they want to listen to. I grew up without a lot of money. I got a shitty job and got a little from my dad once in a while, and i went to the record store every weekend. And I wasn't even that big of a fan back then. It's just what we did. all the kids from my neighborhood went and did that, because we all had something we wanted to put in our stereos. We shared some of the shit directly p2p (as in face to face, burning CD's for each other) but not this torrent tracking mass piracy bullshit.

Agreed, pirating music is just like punching the artist in the face, pirating Music Software is like punching the developers in the face, but they deserved it for pricing their products so high.

Do you know how much analogue gear costs? the conversion to software is just a fraction of the price. And they charge so much because people pay that much. It isn't some magic price that the developers came up with; it's a mixture of covering the costs it took to make the software and how much people are willing to pay. If NI didn't make money from the prices they've set, the price would go down, or they would go out of business. I'm sorry but I think a lot of the products are worth every penny of their price. The developers spent a lot of time to create something great, and in the grand scheme of things they prices they charge are not astronomical at all.[/quote]

Yeah but it's my view that people should only have to pay the big bucks for the software if they make money off it. Its really not a problem if some 14 year old kid pirates FL studio. He's not going to buy it anyway so it's either he has no version or a pirated version. I'm not saying it should be legal, but there's definitely a difference between pirating music software and pirating songs in mass quantities.

[Today]

this is more valid for high priced software.. but for music, that's bullshit. Any preteen with a decent allowance can go music shopping for the stuff they want to listen to. I grew up without a lot of money. I got a shitty job and got a little from my dad once in a while, and i went to the record store every weekend. And I wasn't even that big of a fan back then. It's just what we did. all the kids from my neighborhood went and did that, because we all had something we wanted to put in our stereos. We shared some of the shit directly p2p (as in face to face, burning CD's for each other) but not this torrent tracking mass piracy bullshit.

Wow Today, you're my hero. Not only are you fighting the evil crime lords that download torrents, you also admit that its ok break the law if you do it on a smaller scale. Wow, glad we cleared that up.

i don't do this to change peoples minds or play attorney with black and white legality issues. I'm outspoken for people who lurk and possibly doubt themselves, or are unsure of their stance on this. I care about it. It's not that hard to see the difference in the outcomes of burning a CD for your friend or seeding discogs to TPB
I'm honest about what I do. I grew up at the point when napster came out and i stopped buying music when i could DL all of it. Then i grew up and made my own decisions about what I feel is right. I'm not writing legislature on it. I'm advocating the use of a moral compass in people's everyday lives.

[AxeD]

Pirating software is a lot of fun aaaaand it's a great way to stay in shape.

[nowaysj]

Interesting thread

The first relevant post to OP's question in a long time!!! Yeah!

First off, cracked software certainly doesn't equate to "cracked sound," nobody is re-writing the engine, they are just removing the protection.

Many times the copy protection is woven through nearly every aspect of the application, so it is not a matter of just removing one section of code. As a result the application must be completely broken down and put back together with many missing pieces, so it is the case that cracked software = cracked sound. Also, some of the trickier devs do tricky tricky things that do affect the sound.

To me it is just an overall good feeling to have legit, licensed software at your use.

I totally agree. It just feels better.

When you buy... you don't have to worry about downloading any packaged viruses or spyware that might come attached with a file.

Not entirely true, some devs are so psycho about protecting their IP rights that they install code that is essentially spyware. Gnarly shit.

and most importantly, you are supporting companies who provide you with the tools to do something that is important to you which is make music.

This is totally true. People act like it is Halliburton and Lockheed Martin developing music making software. Almost all music software devs are people that love music and are musicians/producers. They are real people, like you and me, that are following their passion and are trying to make a life out of that passion.

I am much more inclined to take the time to actually learn the programs when I buy them rather than download some cracked copy for free.

And this is the most important point, well beyond all of the moralizing and fantasizing. If you commit to an instrument through the commitment of your hard earned money, that commitment is likely to inspire a more intimate and rewarding relationship with that instrument. When you pay the money, you get way more back in return. And that is for real, and I hope that Perej hears that.

[AxeD]

I buy my stuff but I don't really 'feel good' because of it. I 'feel' like I just spent a shitload of money, that
I worked hard for.

[Today]

and got something terrific, of equal market value, and that was also worked very hard on, in exchange *

[Huts]

Late post, but Today summed up what I was trying to say. Basically a mix cut of a track isn't the same as the full thing otherwise producers wouldn't be mixing unreleased tracks into sets that they know are up for free download. This is also why they put clips rather than full tracks up on youtube/soundcloud, because a lower quality version of half the song is not in any way equivalent to the whole track or the guys making the songs wouldn't be putting them out there in this manner.