Music sales are not affected by web piracy

[dickman69]

well compression distorts low frequencies that are inaudible to ppl on "high fidelity" systems

but can be felt physically on large club systems








dick

[garethom]

were talking about djs playing out 320s instead of wavs

what are u on about

Which part didn't you understand? I thought it was pretty simple, but I didn't realise that English isn't your first language. My apologies.

Basically, the word "fidelity" used in this context means the degree to which an electronic device accurately reproduces the original recording.

You mentioned that a/b tests weren't performed on club systems, I was answering your comment. This is generally what happens in a discussion.

I hope you now understand what I was "on about".

lol sheeeeeeeeeeeit, with an attitude that patronising, you'll fit in well on here!

Anyone know the tune that comes in around 3:20? Sounds like an S-X type thing.

[dickman69]

its kanye west - all of the lights lol

[garethom]

Ah safe, thanks man.

Edit: guessing it's a remix or something, because that "All Of The Lights" is fucking shite.

[VirtualMark]

lol sheeeeeeeeeeeit, with an attitude that patronising, you'll fit in well on here!

I wasn't trying to be patronising, he didn't understand what I was saying and I didn't think it was hard to understand. If you look above you'll see he's started with the insults already!

It's funny, if you challenge someones opinion, instead of looking at it scientifically, they dig their heels in and start to defend it as much as they can.

I spend a lot of time on Gearslutz, and there's a lot more technical converstaions there where people actually know what they're talking about. And the attitude is different - if you're corrected you can see that some people have a deep understanding of some areas.

[VirtualMark]

well compression distorts low frequencies that are inaudible to ppl on "high fidelity" systems

but can be felt physically on large club systems

How does that work then mate? I take it you're talking about lossy compression? Perhaps you'd like to explain to us how it works?

Sub bass is not affected at 320, as it is a low frequency and is very easy to describe. Higher frequencies require a higher bit rate to accurately describe them, as do wider stereo signals - mp3 often uses joint stereo but this becomes less effective when the signal is wider. And of course signals with complex harmonics are harder to describe - such as a distorted electric guitar.

At 320 - you will not be able to tell the difference with sub bass. Try it - make a sub bass sine patch, export it the convert to mp3. I've tested it and you can go as low as 32-64kbps and still play a sine sub. Obviously you'd need much more for actual music, and i'd never argue that 128 or 192 sound as good as wav. But at 320 - nobody can tell! ESPECIALLY on a fucking club system that isn't designed for super accuracy.

[dickman69]

from what i understand as volume increases, the signal 2 noise decreases

of course compressed files quicker than wavs

the first thing that gets noticeably distorted is the low & high end

so once u reach very high dBs it becomes noticeable (dBs that are reached in club settings)

so its not about accuracy at normal volumes, its about loss of sound at high volume

if uve experienced the change between digital (320) -> vinyl in clubs u can tell the difference very easily by the amount of pressure in ur chest, not what u hear



also if u werent being a patronizing dick earlier i apologize but it seemed like u were lol

[VirtualMark]

Well I was mildly patronizing after I read back, but I also didn't think you'd understood what I meant at all.

Signal to noise is a fixed ratio, if you turn up the sound you also turn up the noise - which is why you get hiss from an amp at higher volumes.

Vinyl has a lot less dynamic range than digital, which is why you'll notice that digital has more punch. Vinly also has more noise, or lower signal to noise.

MP3 works by taking out sounds that we can't hear and by using tricks like joint stereo - where instead of having two full stereo channels, you have one mono and one that describes the differences. At lower bitrates it also rolls off the high end.

But none of that affects the low end until you start getting to lower bitrates. Then you will notice things like the transients getting smeared a bit.

Your claim of "feeling it in your chest" is very subjective and dubious at best. The chest is not the best listening device - and lets face it - you won't have played the same song on wav and mp3 one after the other several times to measure this!

An a/b test requires listening to dozens and dozens of tracks in a controlled environment and looking statistically at your results. Guessing 50% is pure chance - it needs to be way way higher to prove that you can actually tell the difference.

[dickman69]

The chest is not the best listening device

obv we have different tastes in music

[Phigure]

Vinyl has a lot less dynamic range than digital, which is why you'll notice that digital has more punch. Vinly also has more noise, or lower signal to noise.

you have it wrong actually. technically yeah, digital has more dynamic range because it doesn't have physical limitations, but digital masters get brickwalled waaaaaay harder than vinyl masters. in other words the relative dynamic range (range between the loudest and softest) is much higher on vinyl

i also like how you call "feeling it in your chest" subjective and dubious and at the same time use terms like "has more punch".

The chest is not the best listening device

obv we have different tastes in music

[Terpit]

Rustling

[VirtualMark]

The chest is not the best listening device

obv we have different tastes in music

No, again you misunderstand me. If I didn't love sub bass I wouldn't be here.

Instead of making smart ass comments, why not try to back up some of your points with facts, and discuss like an adult?

The chest is not an accurate listening device. And you missed my main point - when playing a 320mp3 tune in a club, do you immediately play the same tune again in wav? Just to see how much it rattles your chest?

[Phigure]

The chest is not an accurate listening device.

no shit it's not a listening device

sub is about feeling

[VirtualMark]

you have it wrong actually. technically yeah, digital has more dynamic range because it doesn't have physical limitations, but digital masters get brickwalled waaaaaay harder than vinyl masters. in other words the relative dynamic range (range between the loudest and softest) is much higher on vinyl

i also like how you call "feeling it in your chest" subjective and dubious and at the same time use terms like "has more punch".

Misinformation and stupidity.

Club systems have limiters.

[VirtualMark]

The chest is not an accurate listening device.

no shit it's not a listening device

sub is about feeling

Are you an idiot? Why are you telling me this?

The other idiot claims that sub bass loses detail in the compression process - READ THE POST. Then explain how sub bass can lose detail - this will be interesting.

The fact that people think that 320 loses sub bass is just hilarious! I really wish they'd put an IQ test on this forum at times, the same old myths refuse to die and there's always someone willing to believe in them.

Honestly, I don't care. I don't even know why I'm arguing this - it's rudimentary.

[dickman69]

only a saw wave would not lose detail b/c u use a bit crusher when u make it

b/c sub is a sine wave its very responsive to changes in the compression like that

[Phigure]

Misinformation and stupidity.

Club systems have limiters.

LOL you fucking mong, then why did you bring up the argument of dynamic range in the first place

"Vinyl has a lot less dynamic range than digital, which is why you'll notice that digital has more punch"

[wub]

Seriously, this argument has been tested and proven to be false. Compression = loss of detail, let's not rehash again

[Terpit]

Club systems have limiters.

If you think about it, there's no such thing as a limiter.

[scspkr99]

Seriously, this argument has been tested and proven to be false. Compression = loss of detail, let's not rehash again

I'd be interested in the proof if you have a link?