originators or imitaters?

[gravious]

its not about replacing snare drums with the sounds of someone having a shit or anything like that,

I take it you haven't heard the new Burial album yet?

You win Gravious' "Office LOL of the day" award.

The prize is a photo of my colleagues looking at my like I'm a fucking nut job because I spontaneously burst out laughing in the middle of doing very boring pieces of 'work'.

[sand leaper]

this is exactly what it's NOT about for me...

i can't stand it when people do things differently just for the sake of it being different and original... i couldn't agree more that innovation and originality are essential for the progression of any art form... but being original just for the sake of being original... well that's just too contrived and deliberate for me...

for me it's just all about being yourself...

if being yourself means making pure halfstep wobble tunes... then rock on...

if being yourself means making entire tunes out of toilet based samples... rock on...

but if you're doing things differently just to be different... well then you're an idiot (imo)

peace

So if someone goes to the studio thinking "Nah, that's been done already. I want to make something different this time", they're idiots?

[ufo over easy]

this is exactly what it's NOT about for me...

i can't stand it when people do things differently just for the sake of it being different and original... i couldn't agree more that innovation and originality are essential for the progression of any art form... but being original just for the sake of being original... well that's just too contrived and deliberate for me...

for me it's just all about being yourself...

if being yourself means making pure halfstep wobble tunes... then rock on...

if being yourself means making entire tunes out of toilet based samples... rock on...

but if you're doing things differently just to be different... well then you're an idiot (imo)

peace

So if someone goes to the studio thinking "Nah, that's been done already. I want to make something different this time", they're idiots?

can you read?

[sand leaper]

this is exactly what it's NOT about for me...

i can't stand it when people do things differently just for the sake of it being different and original... i couldn't agree more that innovation and originality are essential for the progression of any art form... but being original just for the sake of being original... well that's just too contrived and deliberate for me...

for me it's just all about being yourself...

if being yourself means making pure halfstep wobble tunes... then rock on...

if being yourself means making entire tunes out of toilet based samples... rock on...

but if you're doing things differently just to be different... well then you're an idiot (imo)

peace

So if someone goes to the studio thinking "Nah, that's been done already. I want to make something different this time", they're idiots?

can you read?

Did you get my point?

Does anyone go into a studio thinking "OK, now I'm gonna make this radically different and groundbreaking tune that's totally different from all the boring and generic stuff out there"?

[oyaarss]

the fundamental essence of originality is -

[slothrop]

this is exactly what it's NOT about for me...

i can't stand it when people do things differently just for the sake of it being different and original... i couldn't agree more that innovation and originality are essential for the progression of any art form... but being original just for the sake of being original... well that's just too contrived and deliberate for me...

I tend to think of it in terms of just not seeing the boundaries or not limiting yourself with them rather than breaking them for their own sake. It's not about (for instance) writing in 7/8 time just because everyone else is writing in 4/4 time. It is about not feeling your options are limited to halfstep / 4x4, wobble / riff and seeing a blank slate not a template.

[gravious]

this is exactly what it's NOT about for me...

i can't stand it when people do things differently just for the sake of it being different and original... i couldn't agree more that innovation and originality are essential for the progression of any art form... but being original just for the sake of being original... well that's just too contrived and deliberate for me...

for me it's just all about being yourself...

if being yourself means making pure halfstep wobble tunes... then rock on...

if being yourself means making entire tunes out of toilet based samples... rock on...

but if you're doing things differently just to be different... well then you're an idiot (imo)

peace

So if someone goes to the studio thinking "Nah, that's been done already. I want to make something different this time", they're idiots?

can you read?

Did you get my point?

Does anyone go into a studio thinking "OK, now I'm gonna make this radically different and groundbreaking tune that's totally different from all the boring and generic stuff out there"?

Surely your example there would show someone who was trying do do something different because they genuinely felt it, and didn't like the way things were, not just doing something different for differences sake.

For example, I dislike a lot of avant garde jazz/classical/whatever because it seems to spend fare too long being different (e.g. microtonality) without spending much time being good or listenable.

I think this sort of thing is what was being refered to in the original post, not just "trying to make something a bit different" because of your apathy towards current trends.

[sand leaper]

Surely your example there would show someone who was trying do do something different because they genuinely felt it, and didn't like the way things were, not just doing something different for differences sake.

For example, I dislike a lot of avant garde jazz/classical/whatever because it seems to spend fare too long being different (e.g. microtonality) without spending much time being good or listenable.

I think this sort of thing is what was being refered to in the original post, not just "trying to make something a bit different" because of your apathy towards current trends.

Precisely.

I don't believe that producers go into a studio simply to make something different for the sake of being different. I believe they go into a studio to make something different for the sake of their feelings towards the music that is currently out there. And more power to them for that.

[ufo over easy]

... which is exactly what wil blaze said

[sand leaper]

... which is exactly what wil blaze said

..in addition to criticizing people who make different music just for the sake of being different, which I don't think really happens.

[wil blaze]

I may be wrong... but i'm pretty sure that unfortunately there are some people out there who are so pretentious and contrived that they actually do make stuff as wierd as possible just so that they can "be original"... it's like it's some sort of fashion to be unique... where as i believe that you're better off being yourself, weather it is unique or not... instead of faking "originality" by making a deliberate effort to do something that hasn't been done without any regard for actually making some decent music...

i guess it's hard to explain exactly what i mean...

of course everyone who goes into the studio with the intention of making something completely different and original is not an idiot... it depends on the reasons behind wanting to make something different and original... if that's you and it's how you feel and what you do then it's all jiggy... but if your doing it just so you can say "i do really original tunes" then i think you're missing the point of art and expression through music.

In hindsight... idiot was probably the wrong term to use but what i was really trying to say is that although innovation and originality are essential to progression and are a worthy quality... doing something different just cos it's different is not really what it's all about from my point of view...

just keep on being you and follow your true path and bollox to what anyone else says!

i wish i was better at explaing what i mean

[wil blaze]

this is exactly what it's NOT about for me...

i can't stand it when people do things differently just for the sake of it being different and original... i couldn't agree more that innovation and originality are essential for the progression of any art form... but being original just for the sake of being original... well that's just too contrived and deliberate for me...

I tend to think of it in terms of just not seeing the boundaries or not limiting yourself with them rather than breaking them for their own sake. It's not about (for instance) writing in 7/8 time just because everyone else is writing in 4/4 time. It is about not feeling your options are limited to halfstep / 4x4, wobble / riff and seeing a blank slate not a template.

yeah that's what i'm talking about... kinda

[thump rat]

It made sense to me mate, agree whole heartily.

[thomas]

... which is exactly what wil blaze said

..in addition to criticizing people who make different music just for the sake of being different, which I don't think really happens.

Im more concerned with why people do things.

People should listen to me more often

[ozols man]

i reckon the only way u can be original is if ur a natural countereactionary individual. as in u hear a sound and if it starts getting too popular, deliberately go out ur way to make something completely different. dont get me wrong though, its not about replacing snare drums with the sounds of someone having a shit or anything like that, its just all about trying to go against the masses at all times...

this is exactly what it's NOT about for me...

i can't stand it when people do things differently just for the sake of it being different and original... i couldn't agree more that innovation and originality are essential for the progression of any art form... but being original just for the sake of being original... well that's just too contrived and deliberate for me...

for me it's just all about being yourself...

if being yourself means making pure halfstep wobble tunes... then rock on...

if being yourself means making entire tunes out of toilet based samples... rock on...

but if you're doing things differently just to be different... well then you're an idiot (imo)

peace

well thats obviously where we differ cowboy. perhaps trying to be different is being urself? maybe someone makes music completely different from others because that in itself is a statement of their individuality? i dont see why trying to make something deliberately different from everyone else is at all "stupid", that in itself is a bit of a dumb remark imo. didnt benga say that they made "night" cos it was something no one would expect? is that "contrived" or whatever?

edit: oh yeh and also that is also surely how dubstep came about in the first place? people were trying different things cos garage, drum n bass etc was getting rinsed out?

[ozols man]

oh yeh one more thing, daint anyone hear the expression : "being urself is for those with no imagination "

[slothrop]

well thats obviously where we differ cowboy. perhaps trying to be different is being urself? maybe someone makes music completely different from others because that in itself is a statement of their individuality? i dont see why trying to make something deliberately different from everyone else is at all "stupid", that in itself is a bit of a dumb remark imo. didnt benga say that they made "night" cos it was something no one would expect? is that "contrived" or whatever?

edit: oh yeh and also that is also surely how dubstep came about in the first place? people were trying different things cos garage, drum n bass etc was getting rinsed out?

It's about trying to be different AND good ie trying to find news ways to express yourself / make people dance as opposed to trying to be as different as possible even if it means not expressing yourself or making people dance.

But I'm not sure how many people really are actually just thinking "well, I'll do something as weird as possible and even if it's shit, I'll still get the girls / bling / whatever." I think most of them are setting out to express themselves in a new way and failing a bit, and I'd rather have a bit of that than everyone sticking to doing the same old shite because they know it'll work reasonably well.

[Jubz]

We are the recycling generation.

[two oh one]

Do exactly what you want to do and don't worry if other people don't feel it.

Do it for you, not for other people.

Blah blah blah.

[sand leaper]

I tend to think of it in terms of just not seeing the boundaries or not limiting yourself with them rather than breaking them for their own sake. It's not about (for instance) writing in 7/8 time just because everyone else is writing in 4/4 time. It is about not feeling your options are limited to halfstep / 4x4, wobble / riff and seeing a blank slate not a template.

Doesn't writing in 7/8 time automatically mean acknowledging that your options aren't limited to halfstep etc. though? Isn't innovation a good thing in itself, regardless of what the intentions behind it are?

I don't think it's fair to automatically assume that the end result of someone's creative process will be shit if the intentions behind it are "wrong". Look at Aphex Twin, he staunchly claims that the only reason he releases music is to make money, yet the general consensus is that he's made some of the most brilliant electronic music this world has to offer.