Arabic flavored dubstep

[Tombones]

true actually i didnt mean to sound like i was suggesting anyone here was of that view. buts its a view expounded by a lot of people who should know better. this thread made me think of an artical i read recently about Muslimgauze where the writer seemed to suggest that MG was on shaky ground with his referencing of middle eastern politics and use of samples because he had never been to the middle east and had continued to live with his parents producing music in his bedroom until his death in 1999.

[rogue star]

sorry got in on this one late.

I got a couple of arabic influenced bits, one of which is out now on my 'tags and throw ups' EP entitled 'the calling', also will hopefully have a release on z-dubs with another arabic influenced track entitled 'desert orchid' which is available to listen to on my myspace

www.myspace.com/roguestaruc

enjoy

[John Locke]

this thread made me think of an artical i read recently about Muslimgauze where the writer seemed to suggest that MG was on shaky ground with his referencing of middle eastern politics and use of samples because he had never been to the middle east and had continued to live with his parents producing music in his bedroom until his death in 1999.

er, that DOES kind of sound like shaky ground 2b honest tho: politics is something altogether different to music. meddling in shit u have no direct experience of sounds at best complicated. anyway there's plenty of problems to rail against closer to home if u want 2 make a difference (was he from bradford?)

but with music, at the end of the day, as many others have pointed out above, its the result that matters. if u grew up listening purely to reggae and thats what u feel then its natural its gonna come out in yr music, even if u try yr hardest to create another genre of music its gonna show through, if u r being true to yrself. no matter who u r.

but...in this case is adding an echoing "jah" vocal to yr track being true to anything much beyond fashion? "jah" means something beyond just a cool sound to hear when bunnin weed. why put it in yr music if u aint rastafarian, or even religious? well, i guess the argument is that it DOES mean something to u, just not what it meant to the person who sung it.

ah, its all so grey and blurry...

[chunkie]

[ I also think that i'm getting really sick of descriptions of tunes in hindi/punjabi/anything else spoken by brown people as "Arabic" or "persian."

So it's the end result i'm interested in-- i could give fuck all about where or who it comes from.

authenticity based on that is out the window; creativity and a ear for what matters (and, in the case of vocals--the language) are what makes them work.

bang on

also, haven't heard it myself but will get round to buying it one day -
"Dub Qawwali"
'To make this album Gaudi was given access to rare and unreleased vocal recordings of `The Emperor of Qawwali' Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan from the 60's and 70's'

Gaudi 's solo album Bass, Sweat & Tears has got some moments too -
Not technically 'dubstep' but good nevertheless

also, outside of 'dubstep'
drum and bass - Nasha Vols 1&2
radio - Bobby& Nihal (radio 1), Nerm(1xtra), Pathaan(1xtra)

plus, dubstep wise check out the forum's own TeReKeTe aka Dave Sharma

[Jubz]

What do peeps think of this one?

dont like it much. kind of what i meant by chakra-lounge. the geiom track is much better

and no, i dont know shit about persian music, or indian for that matter, but those vocals sound more like the latter to me. wunt u check this kind of shit b4 writing such a confident review? i guess the reality is the average boomkat customer really couldnt give a fuck where its from

You seem to be making so many assumptions. You admit you know little about the ethnic influences yet you're confident to assert that you know more than the boomkat employee who wrote the review. You also make assumptions regarding the source of the sample, who knows what influences have played upon the original music? The history of music is a dissemnation of ideas after all. The idea of 'authentic' music I find hard to grasp or agree to.

A> firstly I'm making assumptions based on sum1 else's post above, TeReKeTe's, who apparently knows what he's talking about, who was saying that this ISNT persian

B> what does 'ethnic influences' mean? surely all music identifiable with a particular place of origin could be classed as ethnic. including bethoven

C> perhaps i was being modest when i said i dont know shit

D> if u read my above posts in this thread i make clear that 4me 'authentic' doesnt mean sticking to what's expected of u bcos of yr ethnic background, skin colour, language or whatever. i think its sumthing else harder to define, like a purity of artistic intent...doing what u feel inside rather than "0h, I'm gonna make me one of them type tunes now..."

E> but yes, I admit. the sample could easily be of an iranian singing in punjabi or hindi (I wouldnt know the difference either). i got some 'fake' bollywood records from thailand, and u could argue that grime is just 'fake' hip hop...a non english speaking person wouldnt know the difference between US hip hop and UK grime.

but what i was commenting on was the confident, assertive way in which the boomkat review was written - THIS IS PERSIAN - while the evidence suggests something to the contrary. maybe it iIS persian after all, and the reviewer took this info from the label's press release cos its a featured artist like on the geiom track...but i think its more likely just a sample that even the guy who sampled it doesnt particularly know in what language its being sung and that the press release made no mention of its origins

but yes, u r right. i'm making assumptions.

Point two- point taken, clumsy terminology. Re: the question of authenticity that is a personal thing for each of us, my take on it is that a desire to make good music represents enoug 'authenticity' for me, some of the most interesting music I hear has been made with little respect for the root source or influence, as has some of the worst however.

In response to your last points I find it hard to trace (your conception of) authenticity in this Atki2 tune, was it a 'pure' source or was the original piece of music made through a mixture of cultural influences? Is it recontextualising the recontextualised? Because of this I dont want to judge it on questions of 'authenticity' by your definition; but simply by whether I like it or not, though of course I realise that your judgement of it will be shaped by the question of authenticity.

I'm probably retreading old ground anyway, have a habit of joining discussions after they've peaked.

[shonky]

but...in this case is adding an echoing "jah" vocal to yr track being true to anything much beyond fashion? "jah" means something beyond just a cool sound to hear when bunnin weed. why put it in yr music if u aint rastafarian, or even religious? well, i guess the argument is that it DOES mean something to u, just not what it meant to the person who sung it.

So you don't just reckon it's a total bullshit blag designed to give authenticity to home counties computer music then? I notice it's only cool with some religions, anyone sampled the Archbishbosh of Canterbury to give their productions some spiritual boost? The Pope? The Dalai Lama (actually Buddhism's getting hipper so this might have happened).

[John Locke]

In response to your last points I find it hard to trace (your conception of) authenticity in this Atki2 tune, was it a 'pure' source or was the original piece of music made through a mixture of cultural influences? Is it recontextualising the recontextualised? Because of this I dont want to judge it on questions of 'authenticity' by your definition; but simply by whether I like it or not, though of course I realise that your judgement of it will be shaped by the question of authenticity.

I'm probably retreading old ground anyway, have a habit of joining discussions after they've peaked.

ah, i see where the misunderstnding is now:

my lack of enthusiasm for the atki2 tune, and my criticism of the lazy labelling of it as persian are not connected in any way whatsoever. and authenticty doesnt come into it either. atki2 might be being totlly true to himself, i know nothing about him other than whats written on boomkat. no, my judgement criteria are the same as yours: i just dont like it much (or particularly have anything against it either for that matter)

my criticism was for the reviewer so confidently labelling it as persian when, i assume, it actually isnt, or that they at least wouldnt have known one way or another what it is. i just think thye were being pretentious or had nothing better to write.

but at the end of the day its not the most heinous of crimes.

[slothrop]

So you don't just reckon it's a total bullshit blag designed to give authenticity to home counties computer music then? I notice it's only cool with some religions, anyone sampled the Archbishbosh of Canterbury to give their productions some spiritual boost?

CofE music hasn't had quite the same influence on UK urban music that reggae has over the past 30-40 years. It's kind of inevitable that people are going to want to link into that.

Imo 'Jah' samples or whatever are yet another thing that's entirely justified if the tune works and entirely shit if the tune is weak.

[John Locke]

So you don't just reckon it's a total bullshit blag designed to give authenticity to home counties computer music then?

er, yeah, me personally that exactly what i think. but i was trying to look at it from a detached, non judgemental point of view innit

[upreal]

sorry got in on this one late.

I got a couple of arabic influenced bits, one of which is out now on my 'tags and throw ups' EP entitled 'the calling', also will hopefully have a release on z-dubs with another arabic influenced track entitled 'desert orchid' which is available to listen to on my myspace

www.myspace.com/roguestaruc

enjoy

cheers mate, liked desert orchid a lot.

[shonky]

So you don't just reckon it's a total bullshit blag designed to give authenticity to home counties computer music then?

er, yeah, me personally that exactly what i think. but i was trying to look at it from a detached, non judgemental point of view innit

Fuck that diplomatic shit, stop being a wuss

[Tombones]

this thread made me think of an artical i read recently about Muslimgauze where the writer seemed to suggest that MG was on shaky ground with his referencing of middle eastern politics and use of samples because he had never been to the middle east and had continued to live with his parents producing music in his bedroom until his death in 1999.

er, that DOES kind of sound like shaky ground 2b honest tho: politics is something altogether different to music. meddling in shit u have no direct experience of sounds at best complicated. anyway there's plenty of problems to rail against closer to home if u want 2 make a difference (was he from bradford?)

but with music, at the end of the day, as many others have pointed out above, its the result that matters. if u grew up listening purely to reggae and thats what u feel then its natural its gonna come out in yr music, even if u try yr hardest to create another genre of music its gonna show through, if u r being true to yrself. no matter who u r.

but...in this case is adding an echoing "jah" vocal to yr track being true to anything much beyond fashion? "jah" means something beyond just a cool sound to hear when bunnin weed. why put it in yr music if u aint rastafarian, or even religious? well, i guess the argument is that it DOES mean something to u, just not what it meant to the person who sung it.

ah, its all so grey and blurry...

he was from Manchester. I see what you're saying about there being plently of causes closer to home, though considering the amount of direct involvemnt that Britain has had in Middle Eastern politics over the last hundred years or so, the issues MG espoused were not so far removed from politics here. Anyway I don't wanna go on about politics.
As to the whole sampling thing, it is annoying when people are blantantly sampling something just to be fashionable, Trustafarian step?
[/quote]

[John Locke]

Fuck that diplomatic shit, stop being a wuss

rely on ppl like u 2 say it like it is and put us all in our place shonky

anyway have u read the start of this thread?

[John Locke]

considering the amount of direct involvemnt that Britain has had in Middle Eastern politics over the last hundred years or so, the issues MG espoused were not so far removed from politics here.

[/quote]

very true. but not just in the middle east. everywhere. so why not kick about everything else too?

anyway, please stop humouring me by responding 2 this shit i'm writing, i got 2 stop wasting time and get off here and do some work

ignore me

please

[dandy]

check blackdown also

yh, on the flip of crackle blues. also cyrus indian stomp, out of stock though. def one of my fav geiom tracks, that and dim el fant (thinks thats correct)

[shonky]

Fuck that diplomatic shit, stop being a wuss

rely on ppl like u 2 say it like it is and put us all in our place shonky

anyway have u read the start of this thread?

I think I did but I forgot what it said. I should have said fuck that well-informed, diplomatic shit. It's all about the questionable righteousness but if you can pull that off it could aid plans for world-domination. It's worked before.

[John Locke]

It's all about the questionable righteousness

ok, guilty.

laters

[shards]

*BUMP* finally got around to uploading these.....

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=606044

[random trio]

Sorry to be dull but people need to be a little careful with what "Arabic" means. India is not the same as Pakistan is not the same as Iran, China, Palestine, Morocco etc etc

too right

so assuming this is actually a thread about stuf from the indian subcontinent, not arabic stuf...

www.myspace.com/acandterra

check 1st tune. not dubstep, but a kind of grime/desi crossover

and the stuf on the cyrus LP is exactly what i meant by kebabshop influence. a tired, uninformed pastiche of 'ethnic' music. dont mean 2b so offensive cyrus, not a critique of yr musical talents, just think ppl shud stick to what they know, or at least get to know well b4 hand

hahaha. u having a laugh bro. 1st of i find that offensive. the only tune with that influence on the lp is indian stomp ( which i made about 2 yrs previous.. before you even knew what the sound was). And for kebab shop influence, that track has served me pretty well, being ft in a major movie and sound track.....speaks for itself i think.

But ye, in a way your right. Im not not asian so i shouldn'd use them influence's in my music.

peace

[blackdown]

But ye, in a way your right. Im not not asain so i shouldn'd use them influence's in my music.

dont take that crap from him cyrus! should only black people use influence from dub? Nah.

people can and should use influence from whatever cultures they want. and the more they do, the more different cultures have common ground, understanding and tolerance.

Plus Indian Stomp is a sick tune, part indian-influenced, part dubstep, ex-garage, dub bass... but yet far greater than the sum of its parts.