Theres No Excuse to download steal dubstep

DZA · Post by **DZA** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:08 pm

konrad wrote:I wouldn't agree tbh
I've had a few releases uploaded to irc by those DC things and also tracks elsewhere, as an artist my want is for people to want to listen!! I couldn't really care if they bought my work off beatport or downloaded it illegaly, it's a hobby for me and something I love to do after my shitty 9-5, if it bothers the artist that much then nothing is stopping them from not making music, I'd rather a scene full of people making music solely because they love to do so rather than a lot of whiney bedroom so called "producers" whineing that they're not being paid. I think generally scenes that rely on DJ's are weak anyway, I think if a producer can do some of their stuff live and it's original then they have more of a right to earn some good cash from live performances rather than "spinning" then it's a testament to the artists skill and musical/technical ability rather than what samples he's downloaded...
Live gigs should be focused on more imo... that's where the money is these days.

Most peoples morals are all over the place anyway with sharing music, as in it's viewed that downloading from P2P is bad, naughty and down right dirty, whereas getting a copy of a cd from your friend seems to feel okay to most people, same principal. You could come up with counter arguements against that most people say "but my friend PAID for the CD" and I'd say "well someone somewhere on the internet who you've never met probably bought that track on P2P... doesn't sound any better really...

ye you say that because you have a job, if ya job was producing you would be saying a different thing

rusha · Post by **rusha** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:27 pm

Fair point , my mistake i just copied the lot, didnt realise it would rile so many people up.

i Apologise, links dont work any way i think you have to become a member and its all in russian,

someone sent it to me as it is.

FSTZ1 · Post by **FSTZ1** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:55 pm

Rusha wrote:I give all my tracks away free

yeah

one time I went over to a guy's house and he was running a limewire / soulseek server

his defense was "I give away all the music I make for free, so I dont see what the problem is"

my response to him was...

"nobody wants your music"

true story

crytek · Post by **crytek** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:26 pm

My output for buying music decreased a lot. Simply because I'm been very pick to who I give my cash to. This is something I had to learn after years of throwing away my money for shit music. Had a spurt where I was getting the shit from stuff like soulseek, but not anymore. Same can be said with software. I actually don't mind buying a plugin/hardware if it's worth it imo.

black lotus · Post by **black lotus** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:09 pm

FSTZ wrote: one time I went over to a guy's house and he was running a limewire / soulseek server

yeah.. plus running a server is a hell of a lot more serious than a casual browser.

FSTZ1 · Post by **FSTZ1** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:26 pm

black lotus wrote:
FSTZ wrote: one time I went over to a guy's house and he was running a limewire / soulseek server

yeah.. plus running a server is a hell of a lot more serious than a casual browser.

yeah, that might have been what he was doing

I dunno, he was uploading / downloading all types of shit that was pirated

I don't know the terminology cuz I don't participate in such activities

abZ · Post by **abZ** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:35 pm

ImMortal wrote:
Misk wrote:sometimes i just like to fuck someone's girlfriend for a little bit to see if im interested, before i decide to get serious.
Me too

Yeah me 3. That is how it works isn't it

abZ · Post by **abZ** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:46 pm

black lotus wrote:people need to stop stealing software then too, or anything really..

however, that isn't going to stop. theft has been an issue since the beginning of time. and you know what else.. fighting it won't help!

I don't know maybe it will stop? There are a lot of really good free apps out there. It's not just trackers anymore, there are some seriously good options for totally free. Or even reasonably priced software. If the big software companies do go out of business. People will still be making software. It isn't going to be the end of computer music.

Musicians I see the same thing happening. I am not saying I am happy about it. It is what it is. The only way tune pirates are going to stop is if the music is free to begin with. What the hell, I already go in the hole year after year making music. It isn't going to affect me very much.

But keep up the crying, it's helping the situation greatly!

black lotus · Post by **black lotus** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:05 pm

abZ wrote: I don't know maybe it will stop? There are a lot of really good free apps out there. It's not just trackers anymore, there are some seriously good options for totally free. Or even reasonably priced software. If the big software companies do go out of business. People will still be making software. It isn't going to be the end of computer music.

*THIS* is true. and honestly i think the fact that companies charge as much as they do for software is completely absurd. it becomes interesting when you go from a team of 5 programmers to 10 and suddenly can justify why you charge more.. and these artists, they're pros! they make a lot of money on record sales! we want a piece of that too!!

i'm a huge supporter of free software and donation software. and would like to see higher quality products and even inexpensive software would be great. FLstudio's producer version is $150! these guys have the right idea, especially considering their software is extremely powerful and extremely inexpensive.

but seriously, to think you are going to stop theft in general is pretty much a utopian idealist dreamworld. it would be great, but it is highly unlikely. of course, i would love to see music as an industry fail and go back to it's folk roots. anyone want to go dubstep busking?

also, since we're being real.. burial. not only does he take samples "illegally" (hahahaha) but he claims he uses sound forge only. that is a $300 application! to be honest, there's a good chance he is using a downloaded version. now that he's made a bit of money (has he?) he can pay for the software, but even still.. i go back to asking how many of your favorites A) started on downloaded software and B) still use it?

konrad · Post by **konrad** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:23 pm

The_Dza88 wrote:
konrad wrote:I wouldn't agree tbh
I've had a few releases uploaded to irc by those DC things and also tracks elsewhere, as an artist my want is for people to want to listen!! I couldn't really care if they bought my work off beatport or downloaded it illegaly, it's a hobby for me and something I love to do after my shitty 9-5, if it bothers the artist that much then nothing is stopping them from not making music, I'd rather a scene full of people making music solely because they love to do so rather than a lot of whiney bedroom so called "producers" whineing that they're not being paid. I think generally scenes that rely on DJ's are weak anyway, I think if a producer can do some of their stuff live and it's original then they have more of a right to earn some good cash from live performances rather than "spinning" then it's a testament to the artists skill and musical/technical ability rather than what samples he's downloaded...
Live gigs should be focused on more imo... that's where the money is these days.

Most peoples morals are all over the place anyway with sharing music, as in it's viewed that downloading from P2P is bad, naughty and down right dirty, whereas getting a copy of a cd from your friend seems to feel okay to most people, same principal. You could come up with counter arguements against that most people say "but my friend PAID for the CD" and I'd say "well someone somewhere on the internet who you've never met probably bought that track on P2P... doesn't sound any better really...
ye you say that because you have a job, if ya job was producing you would be saying a different thing

No I don't say that because I have a job
My job is fucking laughable, I work in caffe nero ffs, money from music would be nice but imo noone is owed anything for there own work or hobbie imo. and if I really wanted money i'd start doing live electronics and making a show of it all, not just sending mp3's around and moaning that people are downloading it like most of the fucktards out there.

My buddy's a "producer", Real producers work whose work IS producing work on other peoples stuff and whore themselves out to the general public (weirdos who think they have talent) and bands, and generally are paid by the artists or bands and normally do there own productions (personal artistry) on the side in there studio (not bedroom) in their own free time after working (in the studio), producers who just make there own music and do not really produce any product for anyone are just artists, not really producers. The term producer is being bandied about like anyone with a PC is a producer these days, if someones job is production then they generally will not be making money from their own artistic work on it's own as they're producing for other people who pay them for their services, as opposed to artists. And producing as a job is no fun from the sounds of it, I'm there now and then and it looks tiresome to say the least, real producers deserve to get paid as opposed to artists where getting paid is a privilege.

black lotus · Post by **black lotus** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:04 pm

konrad wrote:The term producer is being bandied about like anyone with a PC is a producer these days, if someones job is production then they generally will not be making money from their own artistic work on it's own as they're producing for other people who pay them for their services, as opposed to artists. And producing as a job is no fun from the sounds of it, I'm there now and then and it looks tiresome to say the least, real producers deserve to get paid as opposed to artists where getting paid is a privilege.

You've made an interesting dissection here by splitting artists and producers. I ended up doing the same thing a while ago when i got into the graphic design business and found it was necessary to differentiate between design and art. Design is what is being sold, whether it is a track or a website graphic or whatever. It is a product that has been requested of you because you have the KNOWLEDGE to produce it. So really, people are paying for two things: 1) knowledge 2) action/physical work

Then of course there comes the question of Quality in work, and whether or not it controls/justifies the dollar amount for payment..

dsub · Post by **dsub** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:09 am

All the "capital p" Producers I worked with, and every studio I worked in California, major label or otherwise ALL used cracked plugins, and sometimes cracked sequencers, etc. Even a company I teched / artist repped for would occasionally put *special* versions of software on their product for *special* clients. All the Hollywood bigshots I was around who score the television shows and movies you watch everyday ALL traded sample libraries and even masters of artists' recordings. It's totally a fact of life.

That all being said, I'll buy any good recording I'm digging that is made available to me. I have literally thousands of cds; however now I don't really buy any cds except for really great sounding rock recordings, as you can still walk up to a brick and mortar and buy a lossless copy of something like that. The newest dubstep jam, not so much, not around here anyways.

Any tune I would play out, or put in a mix that is released, I will buy as FLAC or WAV. I will pretty exclusively buy from Addictech or Boomkat; in the event that I can't get something digital + lossless, I'll pick up the 12" or whatever.

When people put something out as iTunes exclusive, straight up, I'm not buying it until there's a lossless option.

setspeed · Post by **setspeed** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:41 am

konrad wrote:
The_Dza88 wrote:
konrad wrote:I wouldn't agree tbh
I've had a few releases uploaded to irc by those DC things and also tracks elsewhere, as an artist my want is for people to want to listen!! I couldn't really care if they bought my work off beatport or downloaded it illegaly, it's a hobby for me and something I love to do after my shitty 9-5, if it bothers the artist that much then nothing is stopping them from not making music, I'd rather a scene full of people making music solely because they love to do so rather than a lot of whiney bedroom so called "producers" whineing that they're not being paid. I think generally scenes that rely on DJ's are weak anyway, I think if a producer can do some of their stuff live and it's original then they have more of a right to earn some good cash from live performances rather than "spinning" then it's a testament to the artists skill and musical/technical ability rather than what samples he's downloaded...
Live gigs should be focused on more imo... that's where the money is these days.

Most peoples morals are all over the place anyway with sharing music, as in it's viewed that downloading from P2P is bad, naughty and down right dirty, whereas getting a copy of a cd from your friend seems to feel okay to most people, same principal. You could come up with counter arguements against that most people say "but my friend PAID for the CD" and I'd say "well someone somewhere on the internet who you've never met probably bought that track on P2P... doesn't sound any better really...
ye you say that because you have a job, if ya job was producing you would be saying a different thing
No I don't say that because I have a job
My job is fucking laughable, I work in caffe nero ffs, money from music would be nice but imo noone is owed anything for there own work or hobbie imo. and if I really wanted money i'd start doing live electronics and making a show of it all, not just sending mp3's around and moaning that people are downloading it like most of the fucktards out there.

My buddy's a "producer", Real producers work whose work IS producing work on other peoples stuff and whore themselves out to the general public (weirdos who think they have talent) and bands, and generally are paid by the artists or bands and normally do there own productions (personal artistry) on the side in there studio (not bedroom) in their own free time after working (in the studio), producers who just make there own music and do not really produce any product for anyone are just artists, not really producers. The term producer is being bandied about like anyone with a PC is a producer these days, if someones job is production then they generally will not be making money from their own artistic work on it's own as they're producing for other people who pay them for their services, as opposed to artists. And producing as a job is no fun from the sounds of it, I'm there now and then and it looks tiresome to say the least, real producers deserve to get paid as opposed to artists where getting paid is a privilege.

you're right to separate the roles of producer and artist, although it is not as clear cut as you imply. you're also right to say that artists don't automatically deserve money for their efforts, especially if their efforts are not particularly good.

but i don't think it's fair to say that if a band is popular, then the only people who necessarily deserve any money from this success are the producer and engineer, and likewise i wouldn't say it's reasonable to argue that if you write and produce some popular music then you are not necessarily entitled to any income from it, but if you write it and someone else produces it instead, then he is.

but this is all rather besides the point anyway - which is that the income from selling music is what funds studios, producers, engineers and all the rest of it in the first place.

you'll probably find that your producer mate is even more keen for people not to steal music - as he is paid by record labels and budding independent artists who make that money back by selling music. when the value of music reaches zero, as it probably will soon, none of these people will have the money to pay him, and he's probably not going to have the option of DJing or doing a live electronic set to pay the bills, either...

you may think that this is nothing to worry about anyway - fuck the industry suits, let the whole parasitic setup implode and blah blah blah. and you'd have a good point, there's a lot of it that i'd like to see the back of, too. but i think the upshot of this would be that the standards of music and production decline - i don't believe that you can become a good producer or engineer by just doing it at weekends for instance.

hmm, that was a bit of an essay!

numbernin6 · Post by **numbernin6** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:49 am

interesting thread here...

I've been producing for few years now and have had a little bit of success in the trance/house scene and I am convinced" regardless of how big or small of a producer you are, you're not going to make a living off of just selling records. DJ DJ DJ, that's where 99% of the income comes from. When Ferry Corsten, Markus Schulz, Darude, etc play a tune, the money goes to them, not me. But that doesn't matter, I'm happy to have the exposure. And the piracy of music I think is a good measure to see how popular someone's music is. (House producer reference) Take a look at Deadmau5, he went from zero to hero in literally 12 months all because of the internet and word of mouth. Do you think all those people that were hyping him up did so legitly by advocating the purchase of his tunes? I doubt it.

And while online sharing hurts a producer financially, he/she does enjoy a big popularity boost from it. I guess it's both a good and a bad thing.

Originally you may have only reached 20% of your target audience through legal distribution. But by means of piracy (p2p, torrents etc) you may reach 80% of your audience but only 25% of them are actually buying your music. I'd much rather have the second situation where more ppl hear the music even though I'm getting the same amount of money.

Perhaps it evens out (like in my above example), perhaps it doesn't. I don't think we'll ever know without some hard statistics, which will be pretty much impossible to obtain. But until then, you can't really fight the rampant piracy. It's anarchy, might as well embrace it.

brent · Post by **brent** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:53 am

i know a lot of people here are going to have a lot to say about this, but i've been a serious pirate for 15+ years. i currently have over 1 TB of HDD space. i first discovered dubstep through the mp3 scene a bit over 2 years ago. for one, i only have so much money. if any of you think that people with little money should be excluded and have to do without film, music, and video games, then i just don't know what to say to that. before you start insulting me, though, let me say that i started buying dubstep vinyls in September. i've since spent over $1000. i'm spending another few hundred when i get my check next week. i've made sacrifices to have that much money to spend. i'm still going to download scene rips when i can, most especially for the vinyls i own. i would never mix with pirated music. i delete it if i don't like it. i keep it around until i can afford to buy it if i do. if you produce and only care about the money, believing that anyone that doesn't have the money shouldn't be allowed to hear your music, then you should seriously think about the purpose of music. i may start producing in the future. when i do, i'm not going complain about people downloading. i'd probably just give it you anyway, unless i had a contract i had to worry about. i'd just keep quiet about it if that was the case. if you're not happy with the money you have, then get a real job. go back to college. i work 5-6 days a week AND i'm going back to college. ta! =p

casioboy · Post by **casioboy** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:18 am

I used to use soulseek & stuff, but i had enough, no more ilegitime downloads here.
Back in the days i was always talking shit about my city because there were no good record shops, now that i can find whatever i want on the net i would be a real asshole if i didn't pay for the music.
What i really hate is those people who spend their money on a MBP a pair of technics and serato but they keep on downloading stuff for free in soulseek.

Just my 2 cents.

junglist · Post by **junglist** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:44 am

Artists who care more about making money than having people listen to their stuff shouldn't be making music in the first place.

And to whoever said that some artists make music for a living, well if piracy is effecting them that much, then they should lower their impressions of themselves and get a real job because they are obviously not good enough to support themselves financially.

jackieboi · Post by **jackieboi** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:10 am

I have no loyalty to anyone. When i'm earning enough cash to justify paying for the amount of downloads i want i'll pay for them. at the moment getting 3/4 albums a night and paying for them just isnt something i'm going to be doing.

I fully understand that its this attitude thats fucking up the music business but as long as my itunes is whacking out some belters everythings hunky-dorey through my eyes

Yes. I am a total tnuc in real life.

legend4ry · Post by **legend4ry** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:13 am

I see it like anything in life...

If I don't have the money for it, I go without it till I have enough to buy it..

You don't walk into a shop and go.. "hmm I like that TV" pick it up and walk out do ya?

puppykicker · Post by **puppykicker** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:18 am

I already own the track but it's protected so I can only play on iTunes or iPod.

To get itunes files to mp3: You can burn it on a cd and then rip it.
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AIM: vastspace91

Itunes?? seriously??/ you play 128kps tracks out??/ that's gotta sound like shit!

just sayin.....

Theres No Excuse to download steal dubstep

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