gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[Genevieve]

Is it a 24dB/oct but with slope/resonance controls?

Yep, but resonance is untouched.

In any case, try a linear phase filter as suggested. But whatever you use, try to keep it as shallow as possible. Very sharp filters often = problems

Alright, mayne! Cool, thanks.

Will latency be much of a problem as per what I read on KVR?

[macc]

If the DAW has plugin delay compensation then no. If it doesn't, then yes.

Why not try it and find out?

You can always shift stuff in the relevant track forward by the amount of delay the plugin has...

[nowaysj]

Definitely test whether your daw is accurately doing apdc correctly. Some plugins are little lying bitches and report incorrect latencies. You can do this by setting up two parallel tracks, and putting your lin eq on one of them, sending a signal to them, recording their outputs, and making sure that they line up EXACTLY the same.

To macc: are you familiar with the uad cambridge eq? I remember seeing screenshots or something of someone using I think it was the cambridge with like total cuts. Like 48db/oct type cuts or even more. And supposedly there were no issues. Is this folklore?

[legend4ry]

Bump for sticky .

[hudson]

Awesome to see this stickied! I've been meaning to read past the first few pages, so thanks for reminding me

[-[2]DAY_-]

bumpity

[ChadDub]

NEVERMIND

[macc]

Bump for sticky .

[kaiten]

Great thread. Large up Macc and all others for the very helpful advice.

[adover]

I seriously can't believe I've been producing all this time (on and off for 7 years) and someone says 3 words (relative gain structure) and makes me realise I've been doing it so wrong all these years!!

So obvious when it's spelt out like that! Cheers for the pearls macc

[psychedelicatessen]

So I have a question. I understand most everything in the thread, and I've gone through it several times, taking detailed notes for the times I don't have internet, but when I attempted to master some of my tunes for the hell of it, raising the volume to where the highest peak is around -3 overcooks the sound, and it just sounds like shit. At first I thought it was my mixes, but I've gone over them a few times, and I'm beginning to wonder if it's because I'm using 16 bit (I don't have the money to shell out for a new soundcard, and I have to replace my headphones.)
So could anyone help me out? If I was using 24 bits I wouldn't have problems with my mixes being too quiet since I would have more room to work with, right? But since I am limited, how can I get my mixes loud enough to not peak too high, but not sound like shit when I raise the volume when I master them? I know it can be done, but how? If this question isn't relevant (most everyone here is probably never going to be using 16 bit) then I can ask elsewhere.
Edit: the "overcooking" I was hearing was being caused by a short in my headphone's wire somehow but for the sake of knowledge, what would help me have louder masters that sound good? Surely there must be something I can do to get a bit more volume. They just sound too quiet, even loud. Am I really loosing that much quality when I export my mixes?

[macc]

Ok - 3 things;

1 - it's nothing to do with 16/24 bit.

If I was using 24 bits I wouldn't have problems with my mixes being too quiet since I would have more room to work with, right?

2 (or maybe, 1b ) - the whole point of 24 bit is that it allows you to turn things down without losing quality. This doesn't mean you can't turn it up again later, but you don't have to try to get everything as close to zero as possible to 'max out all the bits'. If anything, as has been stated in this thread, that's bad practice and will bite you in the arse later.

how can I get my mixes loud enough to not peak too high, but not sound like shit when I raise the volume when I master them? I know it can be done, but how?

...

but for the sake of knowledge, what would help me have louder masters that sound good? Surely there must be something I can do to get a bit more volume. They just sound too quiet, even loud. Am I really loosing that much quality when I export my mixes?

3 - Make better mixes. Better mixes stand up to the pressure better. Nothing more to it than that.

'How do I make better mixes?' - practice practice practice practice practice practice.

[nowaysj]

What are the characteristics of a mix that will stand up to "pressure"?

[macc]

All the usual things. The right bits poking out, the right bits held in place. The right degree of homogeneity, the right degree of separation. The right amount of dynamic movement, on an instrument-by-instrument basis and an overall micro- and macrodynamic basis. The right balance of width to central power. Blah blah.

i.e. It's good



(BTW nowaysj, was it you who recommended I get that Benga album a couple of years ago? Finally listening to it for the first time now )

[FSTZ]

Finally listening to it for the first time now )

haha you are on top of it LOL

[nowaysj]

Honestly macc, how many years has it been? You are backed up bro! So hit up that etrips track on there. What the f is going on in there? That track is not stereo, its like 3d. Rather than the sounds being in front in a stereo field, they seem to be all around you (me, at least) or inside my damn head. That wooden percussion type sound really seems like it is emanating from my forebrain.

[FSTZ]

That wooden percussion type sound really seems like it is emanating from my forebrain.

IT IS MAAAAN....

IT ISSSSSS

[nowaysj]

It's not called etrips for nothing, man!

[psychedelicatessen]

I dug out some old versions of my mixes, and they were quieter, but when I put a limiter on them to raise the volume, the mixes actually held up for once. I facepalm'd. Sometimes looking too hard for an answer is why one misses it when it's right in the open. er... at least with me
Thank you for pointing out the obvious, Macc

hopefully others will learn from my rather noobish mistake

[FluidMoShun]

Sorry if it isn't really answering your question, but -3 is way too high.

Remember that 6dB is half. So if you have one element at -6, that is half your headroom gone. Two elements at -6dB each = all your headroom gone. Having the drums at -3 will leave you fighting against clipping and struggling to keep everything down and under control.

Rather, set your drums for *around* -8 / -10 (ie, a bit less than half). The bass - if we are talking a pure sine sub - would probably sit best a dB or two below that, any distorted/fullband bass sounds should be effectively treated as different entities and mixed appropriately (due to Fletcher Munson).

This leaves you with a few dB headroom, and everything else is just parsley. No more fighting anything, you *will* get repeatable and consistent levels in your mixes, and better mixes as a result.

This is probably going to sound stupid, as mixing isn't really my speciality, but why can't you mix all these levels at the same proportions to each other but 5 or something decibels higher?