gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[macc]

Speaking for myself, mainly it's to make sure that the file is at the best possible resolution without being anywhere near clipping. It's also best to avoid any unnecessary processes - however minor they might be - if at all possible. I'll sometimes need to adjust the gain of the file before it goes out to the analogue, in order to hit things the right way, but I'd rather not

If something comes in way too loud then I turn it down, if it is way too quiet, I turn it up - no big deal. Some people obsess over the transparency of gain calculations, and ok, I have done a small amount of testing in the past, but in the real world I have work to be getting on with...

But aside from all that, while you don't seem to have any problems understanding the required format/level etc for submitting stuff, you'd be AMAZED how many people do. I get stuff clipped to bollix, down at -30dBFS, you name it... So it's worth reiterating the -3 to -6 thing to try to make life a bit easier...

[samkablaam]

post a question and get a reply from sharm and macc in the same day. not bad! ha.

so mainly just being extra careful then. so if a mastering engineer doesnt ask for that headroom, then it doesnt mean he doesnt know what hes doing. ha.

cheers for the answer

[macc]

They might be assuming you know what you're doing... I've learned it's best to assume nobody has a bloody clue

[Ldizzy]

^LOL. genuine laugh.

[tavravlavish]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember macc saying should for your mixing peaking at -6 db, so my question is, I always thought to shoot for -3. Why negative six? So you can boost more volume out of the mix when you master it or get it mastered?

[macc]

-6, -3, whatever. -10 is fine, -2 is fine, whatever.

Being above -6 - even for one split second - ensures that the full available bit depth is in use. But you have to go down to -48dB to be at the same as 16-bit, so being at, say, -10 is hardly criminal.

[tavravlavish]

-6, -3, whatever. -10 is fine, -2 is fine, whatever.

Being above -6 - even for one split second - ensures that the full available bit depth is in use. But you have to go down to -48dB to be at the same as 16-bit, so being at, say, -10 is hardly criminal.

Hahh oops I didn't see what you said at the top ofthis page, my bad.

[macc]

No probs. Actually I'm glad, as this brings us nicely full circle to the point of this thread;

If you do your gain structuring right then you will naturally end up somewhere in the right area anyway, without even trying, every time. And that's what it's all about

[Ldizzy]

-6, -3, whatever. -10 is fine, -2 is fine, whatever.

Being above -6 - even for one split second - ensures that the full available bit depth is in use. But you have to go down to -48dB to be at the same as 16-bit, so being at, say, -10 is hardly criminal.

Wow Macc.. thx for laying it down clearly (im being honest, no sarcasm!!)

im so comforted that i actually UNDERSTAND most of that stuff a little more. a year ago it was like cantonese.

i think that sentence sums the whole thing up.

thank you macc.

[Incognitorecords]

This thread has helped me loads over the past few days to perfect my mix downs. I'd like to thank you all

[vries]

ableton does have numbers mate. just make your volume tracks a bit taller and even wider if you need to.

You mean this?

Yeah I know what number the track is set to, but theres no numbers on the meters to see where its actually hitting.

No mate, in the mixer view you can make the tracks taller by dragging and numbers appear

Holy shit

[lolmatelol]

I have no real idea about mixing/mastering, always just go by ear.

So to help me understand this thread a little better, I have a question. To make it simple i'm just gonna use sub as an example.

SO, in ableton, I've got my sub coming out of operator. Within operator itself, the volume is set at -12db automatically, for general mixing purposes, do i put this to 0db and turn the volume down on the midi track volume? Or do i leave the -12db within operator alone?

I'm having a bit of trouble trying to word this lol, I always tend to turn stuff up and down via the track volumes (the small picture has been posted just recently), but whenever i open operator or stick a kick sample into sampler it's always at -12db and it's just confusing me a bit.

[Kerosine-1]

I have no real idea about mixing/mastering, always just go by ear.

So to help me understand this thread a little better, I have a question. To make it simple i'm just gonna use sub as an example.

SO, in ableton, I've got my sub coming out of operator. Within operator itself, the volume is set at -12db automatically, for general mixing purposes, do i put this to 0db and turn the volume down on the midi track volume? Or do i leave the -12db within operator alone?

I'm having a bit of trouble trying to word this lol, I always tend to turn stuff up and down via the track volumes (the small picture has been posted just recently), but whenever i open operator or stick a kick sample into sampler it's always at -12db and it's just confusing me a bit.

I know exactly what you mean, there are so many different ways to turn up and down the volume in different elements in ableton. I would like to hear an answer to this as well, but from my personal experience I keep the volume within operator turned down to -10 or -11 as well as turning it down to about -12 on the mixer. Been sounding pretty well balanced to me.

[nowaysj]

Think this has been covered in this thread. REcap - keep your levels moderate through your signal path (remember itb here). Should try to keep your mixer faders at 0db for the basis of your mix. That usually means that your sound source, a sample or synth is probably around -12db. Watch your inputs and outputs in between your fx. Some fx add a lot of gain.

[macc]

^ Nice post, nicely put.

It has already been covered - get the sound right as early in the signal path as possible, ie at the source. Simple as that

[lolmatelol]

Sweet, cheers for the replies ppl.

[DubMikey]

I've been reading a whole loads of comments in this thread now, and I gotta say; this is a goldmine!
Though, there is one thing I don't understand.
My drums peak between -8dB and -10dB.
My Sub bass peaks to -14dB (-12dB is a little too much bass for me).
But where should my bassline peak at?

[skimpi]

I've been reading a whole loads of comments in this thread now, and I gotta say; this is a goldmine!
Though, there is one thing I don't understand.
My drums peak between -8dB and -10dB.
My Sub bass peaks to -14dB (-12dB is a little too much bass for me).
But where should my bassline peak at?

wherever it sounds good?

[Ldizzy]

honestly relative balance should be a thing of taste.. there are different ways of mixing a track... this thread is mostly about respecting the limits of a system... not exactly about a dbscale of where things will sit in ur mix...

for instance : in el b or burial's stuff, the rimshot is always superloud... i dont mix my tracks like that at all...

what i mean is, there is a lot of info on there, and these guidelines will help you but there are different mixing styles...

i wouldnt be able to tell where ur bassline should be.. it depends on how many instruments will stack up on top of it... do u have pads? leads?... etc... i think it comes down to clarity and balance... just judge...

[nowaysj]

Yes, it is all relative, but 0db is not. Whole thread is about leaving yourself enough room to operate below that maximum. Once you can actually allow the space, ball is in your court, what do you want the mix to sound like?