gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[Electric_Head]

I dream of ReaMeters with a user configurable scale – calibrated e.g. to your ADDA if you like – with a large yellow area from -60 to -18dBFS (labelled "0" if you like) and a very small red space for the "headroom" range above.

Cubase has this option - you can configure the meter colour staging how you want it. Very handy until it all just becomes habit/natural.

Yep, Reaper also has configurable meters.

Thanks for all the info macc

[Ldizzy]

i don't know if its possible in logic, never found a way...

however, the logic community has custom-user-made gui's, shared on the obscure corners its forums...

i have a couple.. if anyone wants me to post em i'll do so asap... dunnow how useful it is in terms of intelligibility tho... !

[FluidMoShun]

Everyone shut down my idea of using a compressor without really explaining what its for... So I just assumed it was just a lazy way to mix or something haha.

What a compressor does is tame transients of sound by a particular amount (ratio) over a specific amount of time (attack and release).

The probably most-used use of a compressor is to bring down peak transients to better match the rest of the overall volume of a particular sound. For instance you may have a snare sound, if you imagine how this waveform would look you'd have a massive spike transient at the start and then the decay of the sound after that. The loudest part of the spike will be where your peak volume hits (or where the channel fader shows -3dB or whatever it's coming in as). Along with peak volume, you also have RMS volume. This is the average volume of the sound, as in the volume that the sound is for the majority of time it's playing.

So, in a nutshell, you'll often be using a compressor to bring down your peaks to closer match your RMS volumes.

Ratio
So when you're compressing a sound the first thing you'll want to decipher is how much you want to bring down the sound to meet something else. In a drum loop for example, you might have a kick that's peaking at -3dB and a snare that's peaking at -5dB and you want the overall level of the drum loop to peak at around -5 but maintain a consistent level (as in - if you just turned down the drop loop so the kick peaked at -5, the snare would then peak at -7, but you want both the kick and snare to peak at -5). This is done using the ratio. If you want to tame your -3dB kick down to -5dB you'll probably want a ratio of between 2:1 and 4:1 depending on how 'effective' the compressor is.

2:1 would basically mean that a sound is turned down by 2dB for every 1dB that's over the threshold. But generally all compressors are different and I usually find that 2:1 is only really effective enough for 'soft' compression uses. 3:1 is usually a good starting point for most sounds, then decide whether you need more or less compression later on.

Threshold
Next you need to bring your threshold down so that when your kick is hitting, the gain reduction is between 2-3dB so that your kick is bought down to the snares level.

Attack/Release
Is your kick starting to sound a bit flat and boring? Your attack is probably too low. Bring it up until the sound has its life back! The attack determines how quickly the compressor starts smashing that sound down. For transient sounds you'll want fairly high attack settings so that they're not pulling the 'snap', 'pluck' or 'hit' out of your sounds.

So imagine your waveform, the attack determines where through that peak the sound begins being cut, imagine that turning your attack up is slowly moving to the right across a waveform (very, very subtly).

The release determines how long the compression lasts for before dropping off and becoming an uncompressed bit of sound basically, with drum sounds you generally want this quite low that so the sounds remain vibrant and uncompressed because they're much quieter than the peaks anyway, but on other sounds such as string passages you might want your release a bit higher so that sustained sounds which have similar decay volumes to their peaks continue to be compressed.

Gain
Finally, bypass your compressor and see where the sound peaks on your channel strip turn your sound down so that the peak is at the level in the mix you want it to be. Now un-bypass your compressor and look at your channel strip level meter again, if your peak level is lower (which is should be, slightly) then bring your gain up a little to meet what the channel strip said previously.

What you've potentially done here is turn down the peak transient, then turned up the decay to meet that previous peak... Making the sound seem audibly louder in full (because it's the whole sound, not just the peak that's louder in the mix - without wasting too much headroom).

Now think of this in the instance of say a guitar passage where you have some bits that are slightly louder than others, if you want to level them out a bit... Use the above advice and play around with the parameters a bit until you get a desired result. The art of shaping sounds with compression is really in the attack and release settings, but I suppose a good ear for how much a sound needs to be compressed (ratio and threshold settings) is also just as important.

Interesting, so compressors are largely used for samples and sounds where you can't control individual sounds. This will help alot with leveling out guitar tracks I record for songs, get them sounding much crisper. Thanks wirez

[Ldizzy]

well, one could also automate the gain... something they refer to as Riding (because mixing engineers sometimes ride the gain faders in real time when mixing on boards)

a compressor is really just a fancy, intelligent gain knob...

[wirez]

well, one could also automate the gain... something they refer to as Riding (because mixing engineers sometimes ride the gain faders in real time when mixing on boards)

a compressor is really just a fancy, intelligent gain knob...

Well, it saves the need for doing it as it basically does it for you

I believe Waves actually bought out an automatic level rider!

[Ldizzy]

i know i know, i just needed to mention it cause his answer didn't seem to include that very important consideration..

[nowaysj]

a compressor is really just a fancy, intelligent gain knob...

Yes, but comps will change the tonality of sounds as well.

[Ldizzy]

a compressor is really just a fancy, intelligent gain knob...

Yes, but comps will change the tonality of sounds as well.

true !

[psychedelicatessen]

I hear all this talk about compressors and such.
I haven't touched a compressor in ages, never used a limiter outside of turning down the volume when doing crazy experimental stuff, and I'd like to keep it that way. I do a lot of work with dynamics within the composition itself, and sometimes a compressor just isn't a valid option for me. I can't just clamp down on peaks and raise the average loudness of some tracks, because then the quiet parts are too loud in comparison and don't sit in the mix the way I want them to.

So, for information's sake, what are some other options other than compression/limiting to fix those super-rare-occasional peaks that eat up headroom, translating to I can only add a few dbs gain if I want to bring the volume up to share with people?
It means that for the majority of some tunes, the quiet parts will be too quiet, while the loud parts are fine, but when you don't expect them and crank up the speakers, thinking "Oh, the loud parts won't be loud" and they actually are...

Mostly curious, as a few friends have been hounding me to quit keeping my work to myself and share my progress since I haven't shared anything I've made in months, but I'm not partially deaf because of many loud concerts, and and my music is loud enough to me, but not to others. It's just annoying to put a track on in a playlist, have to turn it up to hear it, then the next song happens to be the loudest song in their library when we're listening to music at night on the top floor

I have a feeling I've asked this same type of question before...

[Ldizzy]

.. gain automation would be an option...

other then that.. there's always the mixing engineer's point of view to duplicate a channel and treat the exceptional parts apart from the whole signal...

really tons of ways to do stuff..

[Lectric]

this thread is just like an infinite well of knowledge. after reading just the first few posts i already had my mix sounding WAY better and more powerful

[skimpi]

yeah gain automation sounds good, just listen to the track, find the peaks and bring the gain down for that short second.

[wirez]

I do a lot of work with dynamics within the composition itself, and sometimes a compressor just isn't a valid option for me. I can't just clamp down on peaks and raise the average loudness of some tracks, because then the quiet parts are too loud in comparison and don't sit in the mix the way I want them to.

So, for information's sake, what are some other options other than compression/limiting to fix those super-rare-occasional peaks that eat up headroom, translating to I can only add a few dbs gain if I want to bring the volume up to share with people?
It means that for the majority of some tunes, the quiet parts will be too quiet, while the loud parts are fine, but when you don't expect them and crank up the speakers, thinking "Oh, the loud parts won't be loud" and they actually are...

You could just learn how to use a compressor properly #ExcuseMyUnenthusiasm

They don't always sound massively blatant, that's where the difference between a compressor & a limiter is. When a compressor is used 'transparently' with unaggressive parameters it will do what you're trying to achieve.

With regards to your 'super loud peaks' [which are obviously intentional] it's just a matter of making sure the dynamics of other channels are fairly level and getting the balance between the peak channel & the others perfect in the mix down so when it comes to 'turning everything up at the end' [or mastering as some people know it ] you're not trying to turn something that's low in the mix up compared to something that's too high. - Sounds blatant, but it's the case of it. Get your balances right and use fairly transparent compression on your channels to slightly even everything out and you'll no long need to worry about clamping down massively on giant peaks compared to super quietness everywhere else. You talk of dynamic alteration throughout your tracks, in which case where you have soft spots in your instrumentation you'll want to have them slightly louder in the mix, just remember that your composition and your mix are two completely different stages of making music.

[ChadDub]

What I do about those random peaks is I automate the volume (or, Velocity, in FL), of the hits that peak.

[nowaysj]

Mostly curious, as a few friends have been hounding me to quit keeping my work to myself and share my progress since I haven't shared anything I've made in months, but I'm not partially deaf because of many loud concerts, and and my music is loud enough to me, but not to others. It's just annoying to put a track on in a playlist, have to turn it up to hear it, then the next song happens to be the loudest song in their library when we're listening to music at night on the top floor

With Wirez here, don't think you're handling your dynamics right. But even still, maybe your work is just very dynamic, in which case, nut up and accept that. Give your quiet dynamic songs to your friends, and if they don't like them because they're too quiet, fuck it, maybe you'll be lucky enough to have them stop asking for tracks If you're an artist, you have to do what you think is right, regardless of the consequences. Easy to say, hard to do.

But listen to wirez, I don't think you're handling your dynamics right.

Oh, one other thing, watch out if you're drawing in your notes on the grid. If you have a few percussive elements all hitting on the same grid line, all of their peaks will line up perfectly and get super peaky. Natural organic playing avoids this as those peaks will often be very close, but not computer perfect. So maybe play in your beats with a keyboard or drum pad like the padkontrol.

[psychedelicatessen]

Oh, one other thing, watch out if you're drawing in your notes on the grid. If you have a few percussive elements all hitting on the same grid line, all of their peaks will line up perfectly and get super peaky. Natural organic playing avoids this as those peaks will often be very close, but not computer perfect. So maybe play in your beats with a keyboard or drum pad like the padkontrol.

I've been taking a different approach to how I do percussion lately, and I've been noticing that I don't have as many high peaks. But when I used the grid line more, I would sometimes put a bit of pre-delay in the amplitude envelope on my high hats, one time I did that on a snare. But thanks for pointing that out, as that turned out to be a large part of my problems, especially when I started getting into layering kicks and putting other elements on top of that.

You could just learn how to use a compressor properly #ExcuseMyUnenthusiasm

They don't always sound massively blatant, that's where the difference between a compressor & a limiter is. When a compressor is used 'transparently' with unaggressive parameters it will do what you're trying to achieve.

I do know how to use compressors, I just don't have any worth using, as some of them have faulty GUI's, among other problems, and I can't update anything since my production computer has no internet. The output gain on the only one that won't crash my DAW is VERY touchy, and I can't type in the amount I want. I should've specified in my post probably.

With regards to your 'super loud peaks' [which are obviously intentional] it's just a matter of making sure the dynamics of other channels are fairly level and getting the balance between the peak channel & the others perfect in the mix down so when it comes to 'turning everything up at the end' [or mastering as some people know it ] you're not trying to turn something that's low in the mix up compared to something that's too high. - Sounds blatant, but it's the case of it. Get your balances right and use fairly transparent compression on your channels to slightly even everything out and you'll no long need to worry about clamping down massively on giant peaks compared to super quietness everywhere else. You talk of dynamic alteration throughout your tracks, in which case where you have soft spots in your instrumentation you'll want to have them slightly louder in the mix, just remember that your composition and your mix are two completely different stages of making music.

I took a look at a few tunes I was having problems in, and sent a few tracks into a bus with a gate on it to catch some noise around -40 db on a few tracks that I had recorded. I was able to then turn them up a bit, then I was able to start balancing the tracks better. Thanks a ton for your advice, wirez and nowaysj I ought to get some new compressor plugins when I have a chance.

[D6K Dub]

Sorry if it isn't really answering your question, but -3 is way too high.

Remember that 6dB is half. So if you have one element at -6, that is half your headroom gone. Two elements at -6dB each = all your headroom gone. Having the drums at -3 will leave you fighting against clipping and struggling to keep everything down and under control.

Rather, set your drums for *around* -8 / -10 (ie, a bit less than half). The bass - if we are talking a pure sine sub - would probably sit best a dB or two below that, any distorted/fullband bass sounds should be effectively treated as different entities and mixed appropriately (due to Fletcher Munson).

This leaves you with a few dB headroom, and everything else is just parsley. No more fighting anything, you *will* get repeatable and consistent levels in your mixes, and better mixes as a result.

ON POINT

[Lysergical]

so if my drums are sitting at -10db, what's a good level for my bass? (brostep)

[skimpi]

so if my drums are sitting at -10db, what's a good level for my bass? (brostep)

brostep? bass? with those facts in mind, id say like maybe -50db.

[jyro]

is there such thing as leaving too much headroom? i have an umnastered mixdown peaking at -8 now