Can dubstep learn from the mistakes of DnB?

[cogi]

http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.ph ... 68&cache=9

I guess they are mostly just jaded dnb heads. I have to agree with the that probably 1/2 of all music is going to be average to below average. Even kode 9 agrees.[/url]

[shonky]

http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.ph ... 68&cache=9

I guess they are mostly just jaded dnb heads. I have to agree with the that probably 1/2 of all music is going to be average to below average. Even kode 9 agrees.[/url]

To be honest I was getting tired of every dubstep release regardless of innovation or even a vague difference to the previous release getting rave reviews. I've pretty much got my limit of half-step wobblers now, but it has to be said that even in a good week you've generally only got about five releases to sift through to find the good'uns.

DnB seems to have thousands to go through though. And the tunes of interest seem to be far lower. But it's all personal taste so fuck it eh

[spherix]

well...being a producer still involved in the dnb market, id just like to say that it seems easier to generalize a whole scene of music when youre not exposing yourself to the style you look for in it.

Drum & Bass nowadays is a term applied with many, MANY different facets. Its the result of constant reinvention as a means of progression. Yeah, it started with *h*a*r*d*c*o*r*e*, went jumpy, went dark, and its constantly feeding into a self perpetuating cycle. This is where it starts seeming stale, when there is a lack of freshness. That doesnt mean that there isnt good shit out there...if there is a part of dnb that you liked to listen to in the past, i can guaruntee you that some mofo is making something you'll like. The bottom line is that there are 2 layers to drum & bass, the top 40 and the not top 40 (lol).

but really thats a result of fuckin 14 years of growth. how can any form of music stay raw and stark for that long? with that much time comes much global exposure, spanning generations of listeners and creators.
Lets see how dubstep fairs in 15 years...

so to me, its a bit obtuse to say dnb 'failed', dnb did not fail, theres so much good that came of it, and still some good coming out of it now...its just most of the people who stopped listening to it shut their ears to anything else it had to offer, because they are finished with it. (much like im finished with trance.)

so yea, im not trying to fiercely dnb in any way, but i think some perspective had to be given, since (as mentioned earlier) there are a lot of ex'drum & bass heads here.

:applause:

well said bryan. to me a lot of dubstep has already hit the "clowstep" stage too, its not to say that there aint some fan-fuckin-tastic shit going on within the substep sound though, deeper, more experimental, etc etc

[elgato]

I have no idea why the people releasing good music are still clinging to drum and bass though when they get no representation or support from the scene.. it may as well be a totally different scene. The people who buy their tunes don't go to big raves - they'd do much better marketing themselves to the boomkat/dubstep/electronica crowd than to drum and bass fans in my opinion.

its weird isnt it. ive never understood why boomkat etc dont jump on Offshore and their ilk

Shonky, another man to watch is Breakage - one of the best contemporary producers imo, in any genre. his new tracks for Digital Soundboy and Bassbin are off the scale, they are without doubt a next step in dnb/jungle's evolution

[dem2ruff]

i my self was involved in the jungle scene and lost all interest in 97/98 when i all went strange - i really am feelin the whole dubstep thing and yes it is like the jungle scene was back in the day full of nrg and badass tunes lets keep this going in the right direction - i am even producing again ( dubstep ) so i am gonna use the same excitment i had for that to make this work we need this to work - just to keep us all sane - peace dj kandyman - if u need a jungle fix check me tonite 6- 8 urbanheights.co.uk - dem 2 ruff jungle sessions - 93- 97 - allways ruff allways nice - selecta -

[shonky]

to me a lot of dubstep has already hit the "clowstep" stage too

Yeah this much is true unfortunately. And I'd also agree with 50% of any music being average or sub par (although I'd probably put the figure higher if anything)

And cheers for giving Breakage the heads up as well Elgato, that's some quality dnb there

[seckle]

this notion that people didn't "make it" in dnb so they moved on to dubstep is utter rubbish.

it's comments like those, and narrowminded thinking like that, that create's all this "internet" beef between the scenes when in reality, there's nothing but love for both sounds.

the bitter reality is that dnb has just ran out of innovation and got too self absorbed with it's own sub genre's and megastar rules.

you don't see the top drawer artists in this scene dj'ing on huge pedestals above the crowd, ignoring the punters that support them and riding in limos to the venue? why is that?

it's because this scene is grounded in reality. no bullshit, just bass and positive vibes.

amit and fanu were the last two guys in through the proverbial door of dnb creativity. they flipped the dnb world upside down for one final last gasp and then the wind banged the door shut after them.

my 45 pence on this.

[__________]

I agree with most of what's been said.

I think dnb is still alive and going strong, its just had its reputation ruined by a few well known producers and djs that have chosen to abuse it, for example Pendulum. Vault - Classic track, Hold Your Colour - FUCKING WANK.

There's still some good dnb being produced and played out, its just been lost under the mass of popular SHIT dnb.

Still, the more SHIT music that gets made, the more it encourages the real headz to make more GOOD music.

[dj slums]

I think dnb is still alive and going strong, its just had its reputation ruined by a few well known producers and djs that have chosen to abuse it, for example Pendulum- Vault - Classic track, Hold Your Colour - FUCKING WANK.
There's still some good dnb being produced and played out, its just been lost under the mass of popular SHIT dnb.

true true
it bugs me to read people dissin drum n bass so bad -theres still so much good stuff out there.

would be good to see more experimental tunes on boomkat though. would be amazing.

likes been said before, top djs play the same shit.- ive been to nights where all the top four dj's just played the same crap bouncy bullshit -even the same tunes. why would you want to do that? dunno why an a list dj would want to come up n play the same shit thats been played in the set before him.

theres people making good dnb. if you like dnb, you'll make the effort to find it. simple as.

people whos stuff i still buy are guys like dj vapour, unknown error, spor, kryptic minds, break, klute, audio, limewax. if i like it, i'll buy it. dont care what others think.

[incyde]

Will money be the catalyst for conservatism?

To what extent can a scene consciously retain an experimental ethos?

Finally, is it fair to use the evolution of DnB as a guide to predict what the future holds for dubstep? I think there is some worth in this idea. I may be wrong. (I sincerely hope I am)

money is only a catalyst for conservatism when those who make tunes do it in order to get money. when they are making tunes for purely expression then no.

however you also have to apply that to record labels. major labels that are in it to make profit have to use conservatism in order to get the most record sales. they are forced to stick with what sells.

once again though to apply it to labels, if a dubstep label has its sole goal to make money then it will be more likely to put out tunes that they think will sell. but i think most dubstep labels are not in it for the money and most of them actually lose money by being around, because money isn't what it's about.

however i think in this case it doesn't degrade the quality of the music at all because there is a huge amount of unreleased material that still gets distributed, therefore music with more experimentation (tunes that are not put out on labels because they dont think they will "sell") are still very common and keeps the scene healthy with new styles of tunes all the time.


will dubstep follow the same tragic path of dnb? it will if it makes the same mistakes. i think to avoid these mistakes you just have to keep it healthy with new tunes and new styles, new producers, all the time. it also has to not get commercialized.... right now i think most labels are in it to promote artists and put out good tunes, not to make a buck. as long as this continues we'll be fine.

and if people stay off e too... i suppose. if the place was full of people rolling, like someone said before, they dont give the dj's/producers adquate reactions to work from. when u drop a stupid tune and everyone's rollin they dont really notice and it continues to get dropped, and it degrades the sound.

[misk]

interesting thoughts here. ill be making music forever though, regardless of what it is. Whether or not theres an experimental ethos in the scene, there will always be one in my studio.

[coherant]

Soundmurderer and SK1 have created the best jungle I have ever heard, and they are from detroit of all places

Yes.

[ufo over easy]

the bitter reality is that dnb has just ran out of innovation and got too self absorbed with it's own sub genre's and megastar rules.

it's because this scene is grounded in reality. no bullshit, just bass and positive vibes.

Do you think it's a coincidence that I bumped this thread now?



http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16838

[freqone]

i swear German dnb is moving fwd in a way *a lot of, but not all, obv* english dnb isnt

Agreed....

[adruu]

the answer is no.

[alex deadman]

DnB is pretty much ok.
Dubsteps fine.
The UK Underground Music scene remains the same.

People tried very hard to maintain last time, in the end in that caused more problems than it solved.
People have to make their own mistakes bacause there's no way like experience.

[jayar]

i think its kind of funny that there is a perception of d&b making 'mistakes'.

music is organic and the subgenres have a life outside any clear direction - you just get a few people making stuff with a certain sound, others like it, the sound evolves etc. dubstep will certainly not be beyond that, no matter how hard you might wish. same thing happened to hip hop.

i personally have been into d&b for more than a decade but am getting a little over it now just because im not as into the directions its going - too much disco flavoured pap on hospital records or too much cold techy cannibal rapist death-core rubbish. for me, d&b was always about the funk, syncopation and wobble, so i still like the drumfunk & dubstyle end of things (alpha omega, breakage, equinox, paradox etc).

some people get into a style of music when its new and raw, other when its established and more polished. its just the way it goes... lets see what happens in 10-15 years of dubstep (will it go the way of trip hop?) - most of you will be listening to something newer anyway.

[keith p]

I haven't payed attention to Dn'B for years nor have any desire to honestly. If it happens that Dubstep marches down the same path you can guarantee I'll be well vexed.

[numaestro]

Not all dnb is bad - I'm sure if you look you can find things.
Jungle/dnb is about 15 years old (more or less) Surely it's not surprising that there probably isn't that much left in the tank. I very much doubt dubstep will get that far ... and if it did another generation of producers,DJs and ravers would be finding it old hat anyways - natural progression innit.

[martyn]

I dont think thats true. Look at house (since early 80s), look at hiphop
or techno.. All older styles than dnb or dubstep.. Theyre all still around,
they branched out into cheese but they also branched out in a smaller
segment of high quality innovative music - same will happen to dnb and
dubstep - who knows maybe the genre name will change a couple times
but who cares - genre names are only meant for journalists anyway lol.