I'm gonna be one of the first people to have a UK ID card

[hackman]

rnbc you seem to be only equating the id card with being tracked
ITS THE FUCKING PRINCIPLE MOTHER FUCKA!!

[alien pimp]

The ID card wouldn't actually help make that process faster at all, the only thing I could suggest it assisting with is tracking which airports you leave and come to. But if you have a passport that is already tracked anyway, so again it offers no extra ability to check your whereabouts.

you may be right about finding personal information but they can be used to track movements, much the same as with the oyster card (although at least the latter are anonymous)

If you have a mobile phone you can be traced to your location 24/7 wit an accuracy of 30 metres through tower triangulations, that's how 999 have a rough idea of your co-ordinates when you call them from a mobile. That is a much better way of tracking where you are than a ID card that is only actually read at airports.

Also reading your bank statements can give a good idea of your where you've been too.

that is another reason for which in many countries they started to oblige you to identify yourself even when you buy prepaid shit and proves their intentions
but you can't deny people some rights for not having a mobile, you'll see what people without the cards will be denied soon

also after cash withdrawal your spendings can't be traced anymore

i'm glad you agree though that the good fellaz in the gov have you in the palm of their hands, probably to do you good like they always do

your argument is like: the murderer already has guns, why bother if he buys one more?
coming after the one earlier like: this murderer never used this weapon before so there's no reason to suspect he'll use it in the future, now that he got his hands on it

very logical indeed!

[alien pimp]

btw brave smart guy, did you ever use the "you can't spell" argument against the people who support your ideas?
i have a hunch illiteracy is more widespread among the people who share your point of view, wanna bet?

wanna bet i spell better than 90% of the uk citizens, even if for me you're just a country from far away where people do good arts and drive on the wrong side of the road?

how lame is it to bring that up and what other reason is there to do it except to divert attention from your own shit?

[missedthebus]

On the subject of data tracking and profiling as is covered here in, I thought I could contribute.

What if in the process of facilitating the easy of financial transactions for all, you created the perfect tracking tool.

Well that is what a major mobile manufacturer is doing at the moment - similar to what has been in place in Japan for several years and which is extremely popular.
Imagine if you could use your mobile instead of an oyster card to board a train or bus, use your mobile to take out cash, use your mobile to pay for a card transaction - wouldnt that be great, your life would be so much easier!
In the process you have created a one-stop-shop for any inquisitive agency, clandestine or not, to take all the data they want from said mobile phone manufacturer.
Well this is less than a year away, and despite the ramifications I will cretainly be getting one.

[sirsnaf]

On the subject of data tracking and profiling as is covered here in, I thought I could contribute.

What if in the process of facilitating the easy of financial transactions for all, you created the perfect tracking tool.

Well that is what a major mobile manufacturer is doing at the moment - similar to what has been in place in Japan for several years and which is extremely popular.
Imagine if you could use your mobile instead of an oyster card to board a train or bus, use your mobile to take out cash, use your mobile to pay for a card transaction - wouldnt that be great, your life would be so much easier!
In the process you have created a one-stop-shop for any inquisitive agency, clandestine or not, to take all the data they want from said mobile phone manufacturer.
Well this is less than a year away, and despite the ramifications I will cretainly be getting one.

i heard about this - theyre rolling it out in S Korea as well over teh next few years and slowly fazing out physical money...... you have a chip in your phone, and swipe it to pay for stuff, or when you get on buses/taxis/trains...

all the tracking stuff is moot to me - what really worries me is the feeling when you shop online at 3am and wonder why you cant pay rent etc... only everyday, cos you wont have paper money.... am going to be skint if they do such a thing over here

[firky]

nice in theory but the way things stand now there's not a chance of that working. people will inevitably come to the uk, and countries like it, searching for jobs/benefits and that's just not a viable option. it would be nice, but the economy simply can't handle it

Actually the UK economy like other economies benefits from immigration and there is concrete proof of that.

Here is a report from the Home Office saying that migrants to the UK bring in excess of £6billion to the UK economy, and as for benefits you are once again talking out of your black and white arsehole. A study by the University College London found that most migrants pay far more in taxes than they take in benefits. With over 90% of migrants in work. That study can be found here.

I suggest you actually read up on the subject and have a more informed opinion of it that is closer to the truth than that of the one you are pedalling which is basically, "darkies comign over here and taking our jobs and sitting or sitting the dole."

Your arse:



My plate:

[firky]

Migrant workers propping up the NHS, or would you like to abolish the, badger?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/ ... nhs60.nhs2

Doctors from India and Pakistan came in huge numbers in response to an appeal in the early 1960s by the then health minister Enoch Powell. More than 18,000 subsequently arrived in the UK, underpinning healthcare provision in many areas. It was reported in 2003 that in the Rhondda valley, in Wales, 73% of GPs were south Asian.

[firky]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 59279.html

Prof Dustmann found immigrants were, on average, younger and better educated than the native population, but also prepared to work for much lower wages – on average a third less – and 60 per cent less likely to claim benefits. After a year here, their job prospects improved significantly and their average wages increased, he said.

[firky]

http://www.hrmguide.co.uk/jobmarket/migrants.htm

Migrants Have No Effect On Unemployment

June 11 2008 - A study conducted by Sara Lemos of the University of Leicester and Jonathan Portes of the Department for Work and Pensions concludes that migration from Eastern Europe has not had any statistically significant impact on:

claimant unemployment
the young
the unskilled
wages

May 19 2007 - A TUC study concludes that the massive inflow of migrants to the UK is a significant benefit to the UK economy citing Treasury estimates that migrant workers are responsible for around 10% of economic growth.

The economics of migration concludes that far from being a drain on the welfare state, migrant workers pay more in taxes than the value they receive from public services. According to the TUC, their research shows that migrant workers have not depressed jobs or wages. There is some evidence of a local effect on the wages and employment of low-skilled workers but these employees have not lost out because of the UK's vibrant economy

[gnome]

Wow Firky I'm glad you shared that with us

[badger]

nice in theory but the way things stand now there's not a chance of that working. people will inevitably come to the uk, and countries like it, searching for jobs/benefits and that's just not a viable option. it would be nice, but the economy simply can't handle it

Actually the UK economy like other economies benefits from immigration and there is concrete proof of that.

I suggest you actually read up on the subject and have a more informed opinion of it that is closer to the truth than that of the one you are pedalling which is basically, "darkies comign over here and taking our jobs and sitting or sitting the dole."

Your arse:



My plate:

i suggest you actually read what i posted before jumping to stupid conclusions next time. i work for the fucking uk border agency you twunt so i fully understand the issues surrounding immigration and i'm not a fucking racist. of course immigrants add to the economy but if our borders were open to anyone and everyone then do you really think it wouldn't have an effect on the economy? with controlled immigration it works well for the most part but i highly doubt things would run so smoothly with completely open migration. which is pretty shit, but it's the way things are

[firky]

Ahhh yes and what is the UK Border's Agency primary role, isn't one of them to enforce immigration rules?

*slow cricket clap*

It doesn't matter who you work for that is is non sequitur - you're still pedalling the myth that if borders were lifted all over the EU that all on sundry would come to the UK, take "our" benefits and jobs. Load of fucking rubbish. If I was planning on coming to the EU I'd go to somewhere where it's warm and sunny!

[badger]

Ahhh yes and what is the UK Border's Agency primary role, isn't one of them to enforce immigration rules?

no we sell exquisiteley matured cheese on ebay. what do you think?

i'm not pedalling that myth at all. i said if borders were completely opened then that would happen. borders are not completely opened (ie to the whole world, not just the EU) and i have not at any point said that migrants are stealing our jobs under the current system

[Pada]

Ahhh yes and what is the UK Border's Agency primary role, isn't one of them to enforce immigration rules?

no we sell exquisiteley matured cheese on ebay. what do you think?

[RubiconMan]

i work for the fucking uk border agency you twunt

FIRKY GOT SERVED!!!!!!!

[rbnc]

nice in theory but the way things stand now there's not a chance of that working. people will inevitably come to the uk, and countries like it, searching for jobs/benefits and that's just not a viable option. it would be nice, but the economy simply can't handle it

Actually the UK economy like other economies benefits from immigration and there is concrete proof of that.

Here is a report from the Home Office saying that migrants to the UK bring in excess of £6billion to the UK economy, and as for benefits you are once again talking out of your black and white arsehole. A study by the University College London found that most migrants pay far more in taxes than they take in benefits. With over 90% of migrants in work. That study can be found here.

I suggest you actually read up on the subject and have a more informed opinion of it that is closer to the truth than that of the one you are pedalling which is basically, "darkies comign over here and taking our jobs and sitting or sitting the dole."

Your arse:



My plate:

No one here is saying NO IMMIGRATION. But if every country completely opened its borders it would be chaos.

Controlled immigration is key, my family wouldn’t even be here if it wasn’t for being able to immigrate legally into this country.

No one would ever deny that immigrants serve a very valuable role in the UK. Except Nick Griffin maybe.

[firky]

Ahhh yes and what is the UK Border's Agency primary role, isn't one of them to enforce immigration rules?

no we sell exquisiteley matured cheese on ebay. what do you think?

i'm not pedalling that myth at all. i said if borders were completely opened then that would happen. borders are not completely opened (ie to the whole world, not just the EU) and i have not at any point said that migrants are stealing our jobs under the current system

You said:

people will inevitably come to the uk, and countries like it, searching for jobs/benefits and that's just not a viable option. it would be nice, but the economy simply can't handle it

Which is simply not true, the above reports by the government, UCL and other research and media bodies show that this is not the case, the economy can handle immigration, it always has done, the NHS would collapse with out immigration. You also said that they'd be searching for jobs and or benefits, again this is not the case, 90% of them actually work and pay more in taxes than they take in benefits, it is perfectly a viable option, the EU is a huge and extremely wealthy, it can sustain an open borders policy.

Squirm all you like badger, what you said is in B&W to pardon the pun, and if you work for the UKBA they're hardly going to employ someone like myself who believes in an open borders policy are they? No, they're more likely to employ someone like yourself who believes that it wouldn't work. I wouldn't even get past their interview.

"So mr firky why do you want to work for the UKBA?"
"To tear you down from the inside and open the gates"



edit to add: I am actually enjoying this, it's not often you get to debate with someone who doesn't take it as some kind of personal attack!

[alien pimp]

nice in theory but the way things stand now there's not a chance of that working. people will inevitably come to the uk, and countries like it, searching for jobs/benefits and that's just not a viable option. it would be nice, but the economy simply can't handle it

Actually the UK economy like other economies benefits from immigration and there is concrete proof of that.

Here is a report from the Home Office saying that migrants to the UK bring in excess of £6billion to the UK economy, and as for benefits you are once again talking out of your black and white arsehole. A study by the University College London found that most migrants pay far more in taxes than they take in benefits. With over 90% of migrants in work. That study can be found here.

I suggest you actually read up on the subject and have a more informed opinion of it that is closer to the truth than that of the one you are pedalling which is basically, "darkies comign over here and taking our jobs and sitting or sitting the dole."

Your arse:



My plate:

No one here is saying NO IMMIGRATION. But if every country completely opened its borders it would be chaos.

Controlled immigration is key, my family wouldn’t even be here if it wasn’t for being able to immigrate legally into this country.

No one would ever deny that immigrants serve a very valuable role in the UK. Except Nick Griffin maybe.

did you apollogize for gratuitous insult in the OP or why are you still here?
prolly you're excused after proving yourself such a civil and smart person in this thread, never lying, insulting people or cowardly avoiding arguments and being hypocrite
how can you open your mouth and talk about chaos when the only chaos it's in your mind?

[seckle]

i work for the fucking uk border agency

thread....over.

i think the only issue i have with chipped identity cards (RFID) is the distance from the detectors, from which you can be tracked. there was an article in wired magazine a few years ago where they did a test of the biometric passports and found that present technology only allows for it to be tracked up to 100 feet from a detector. if you have an RFID blocking wallet, then the passport can only be detected when open. the obvious worry in regards to this is the fact that thieves (or anyone else that can buy the detector) can know when you're near or not. for example : you arrive at a foreign airport. thieves could know that you were from the UK (ie..wealthy), and then target you for robbery/kidnapping/etc. other than that, if you're a law abiding citizen, pay your taxes, have a bank account, have an IP address, have a cell phone.....all that data in being archived and mined already...so whats the big deal?

[badger]

Ahhh yes and what is the UK Border's Agency primary role, isn't one of them to enforce immigration rules?

no we sell exquisiteley matured cheese on ebay. what do you think?

i'm not pedalling that myth at all. i said if borders were completely opened then that would happen. borders are not completely opened (ie to the whole world, not just the EU) and i have not at any point said that migrants are stealing our jobs under the current system

You said:

people will inevitably come to the uk, and countries like it, searching for jobs/benefits and that's just not a viable option. it would be nice, but the economy simply can't handle it

Which is simply not true, the above reports by the government, UCL and other research and media bodies show that this is not the case, the economy can handle immigration, it always has done, the NHS would collapse with out immigration.

Squirm all you like badger, what you said is in B&W to pardon the pun, and if you work for the UKBA they're hardly going to employ someone like myself who believes in an open borders policy are they? No, they're more likely to employ someone like yourself who believes that it wouldn't work. I wouldn't even get past their interview.

"So mr firky why do you want to work for the UKBA?"
"To tear you down from the inside and open the gates"

are you seriously going on with this?

i already said i'm not against immigration and i know full well that it has benefits to the economy. i said that if borders were open to worldwide immigration without controls then the economy would struggle. i could explain why using economic terms but i suspect it would be lost on you

You also said that they'd be searching for jobs and or benefits, again this is not the case, 90% of them actually work and pay more in taxes than they take in benefits, it is perfectly a viable option, the EU is a huge and extremely wealthy, it can sustain an open borders policy.

so 90% working and 10% or getting benefits? what part of that contradicts me saying that immigrants would be searching for jobs or benefits?

once again i am NOT talking about the fucking EU. see the bit where i said "every country" and "world-wide", have a guess what that means would you?