Mac vs. PC

[nowaysj]

ha ha ha,



Problem probably was logic on the pc though. Back in the day I'd pull my hair out trying to get logic running properly.

My g4 crashed more than my xp's have. Maybe one crash on my production pc. I can't remember one, but I can't rool out the possibility.

I think we can agree though that contemporary mac's and pc are equally as stable.

It just comes down to bang for the buck. For a tower, they're not comparable, for a laptop it gets close.

[setspeed]

yeah it would blue-screen, or just freeze, or logic would crash, or the sound would magically stop and you'd have to reboot the computer to get it working again, or you'd turn it on and windows would have somehow lost the drivers for the midi keyboard, or it would go on a go-slow for a while (that was a particular favourite)... couple of times a week, easy. I remember one session where we had to spend 6 or 8 hours bouncing down audio on the Dell because for some reason it became incapable of playing back more than a couple of channels of audio at once. but it was fine again a day or 2 later. never a dull moment

How were you running logic on windows?

the Emagic 5.5 version for PC before apple bought the App

yep, this ^^

logic 5.5 was pretty tidy, and i am still convinced that the Bitcrusher was better in that that version than in the Mac ones!

but logic 5 couldn't bounce offline. megaballache, having to bounce down 5 or 6 times in a row cos it kept glitching

[abZ]

yeah it would blue-screen, or just freeze, or logic would crash, or the sound would magically stop and you'd have to reboot the computer to get it working again, or you'd turn it on and windows would have somehow lost the drivers for the midi keyboard, or it would go on a go-slow for a while (that was a particular favourite)... couple of times a week, easy. I remember one session where we had to spend 6 or 8 hours bouncing down audio on the Dell because for some reason it became incapable of playing back more than a couple of channels of audio at once. but it was fine again a day or 2 later. never a dull moment

How were you running logic on windows?

the Emagic 5.5 version for PC before apple bought the App

yep, this ^^

logic 5.5 was pretty tidy, and i am still convinced that the Bitcrusher was better in that that version than in the Mac ones!

but logic 5 couldn't bounce offline. megaballache, having to bounce down 5 or 6 times in a row cos it kept glitching

For real? That is weak sauce. I guess sometimes I forget how much time has passed since I started doing this shit.

[mmjdw]

Macs/Logic vanilla crash just as much as Cubase with miles of VSTs. Maybe 25% less

[nowaysj]

"Tell me, grandpa, of the days when logic was on the PC!"

[Mad_EP]

why do so many performers and artists swear by apple for live stuff? is it just because they want to be cool apple kids are are they just more stable and less to worry about? (i'm genuinely curious)

I can't speak for anybody else - just for my myself..

But I resent the notion that I 'want to be a cool Apple kid'' - I have been using Apple computers (in general) since before many of the users on this forum were even born. I started off on the Apple II+, back in '80 or '81 I think? And for the 29 years I have been using their computers, they have been extremely solid for me in almost every environment... So I never felt the need to switch computers. I've used plenty of PC's over the years - and actually preferred the PC when I was doing a lot of work in Flash, but other than that, found Macs to be more stable. Again - just my experience.

I think that when one is looking at the high-end of the product market (in terms of specs, etc), either is going to be relatively stable and dependable. However, I was most impressed with how well the lower-spec'ed Macs were able to perform. My first gig laptop was a G3 (so nevermind no intel core, it wasn't even a G4) with maybe an 800 Mhz processor (again, not even touching the 1+ Ghz mark) and the maximum 640Mhz RAM. That fucker was SOLID. I was using Ableton and I did over 50 gigs with it without a single crash.

Not much to say - 29 years of high performance dependability buys my loyalty. As for what anyone else uses - I simply don't care. They should use whatever works best for them.

[BioQuark]

It really only comes down to one question.

What do you want to run? For anything besides Logic, I'd 100% go for Windows, simply because of the fact that it's shit tons cheaper. Not to mention the fact that Windows pretty much has every option available (excluding Logic). I understand the whole "Windows crashes" stereotype, and I agree, but most of you are exaggerating. As long as you're not being an idiot, and doing the most obviously dangerous things (like downloading shit from anything but a trusted source. This means "hey guise I found iN Massive on limewire it luks legitt"), your computer will be fine. And with Windows 7 especially, I can't say that I've had any problems at all (I'd even say less than my iMac, which has somehow gotten so bogged down and slow that it's completely unusable, but only 2 years old). I was a long time XP user (I had Vista for a month but couldn't stand it), and switched to Windows 7 in the early beta (I'd say around last summer), and I honestly haven't had a single issue. 

Of course, if you're going the Windows route, there's only one option for hardware; to build your own. If you buy a prebuilt computer (hai guise Alienware is leet gamin computer) I can't even express how sorry for you I feel. Building a PC is literally child's play. It's pretty much a slightly more advanced version of the old "put the square block in the square hole" toy for kids. And especially with this thing called the Internet, building a PC (or really anything for that matter), is piss easy. You get it a hell of a lot cheaper, with a hell of a lot more performance. 


Now if you want Logic on the other hand, there's still really only one option, build a PC and hackintosh that bitch, probably dual boot it to XP/7. You need to watch out a little bit for hardware compatibility, but other than that, there's no issues with building a hackintosh. Like I said, because of this whole new fangled Internet thing, it's all childs play. 

There's also some netbooks that translate well into Hackintoshes. I know that the Dell Mini 9 (which I got for $200) is a perfect Hackintosh, and Ive heard that the Dell Mini 10v works as well. You're not getting killer peformance, but for the price of a VST, you're getting a fully capable Mac netbook.

[Pedro Sánchez]

Only reason to get get mac is for Logic

[wayoftheworld]

why do so many performers and artists swear by apple for live stuff? is it just because they want to be cool apple kids are are they just more stable and less to worry about? (i'm genuinely curious)

I can't speak for anybody else - just for my myself..

But I resent the notion that I 'want to be a cool Apple kid'' - I have been using Apple computers (in general) since before many of the users on this forum were even born. I started off on the Apple II+, back in '80 or '81 I think? And for the 29 years I have been using their computers, they have been extremely solid for me in almost every environment... So I never felt the need to switch computers. I've used plenty of PC's over the years - and actually preferred the PC when I was doing a lot of work in Flash, but other than that, found Macs to be more stable. Again - just my experience.

no disrespect meant, that's just the attitude a lot of people assume towards those that prefers macs. i appreciate your feedback quite a bit -- thanks for posting.

[stappard]

Only reason to get get mac is for Logic

Nah not true. You only realise how much stress your windows computer caused you when you've had a Mac for two years and not had a single problem. No viruses, no crashes, none of the unavoidable windows crap you get (well I did at least) every day.

[MtEden]

Only reason to get get mac is for Logic

[futures_untold]

Ahh, Macs vs PC's....

Short answer: PC with Windows 7.

----------------------------

For me, Windows 7 has some small features that make working with multiple windows/apps far quicker and easier than Mac OSX.

- In Win 7, you can double click anywhere in the top of a window to force the window to go full screen.

- Drag a window to the edge of the screen, and it will auto-resize to fill exactly half the screen.

- Windows 7 allows users to resize apps/windows from any edge of the window. Mac only allows users to resize from the bottom right of the window.

- Mac OSX doesn't allow all windows to go full screen, which becomes distracting on wide screens as the desktop shows through around the edges of the window that's open.

- In Win 7, moving your mouse to the bottom right corner of the screen lets the user see the desktop.

- Any open apps/windows on the taskbar can be reshuffled in any order. This also makes working with multiple apps/windows easier and more logical.

- Press the Windows button on the keyboard and start typing the name of the application or file you wish to find, and Win 7 starts displaying results as you type. This search feature is found at the top of every filebrowser window.

All these little features add up to make accessing and managing files fast and simple. These featurse alone have sped up my production workflow infinately.

Because of these features, every time I now use my friends Macbook Pro I become frustrated. OSX lacks these feautres, so swapping between sample/music folders and music apps is laborious and tedious. OSX inability to go full screen with a double-click is or resize from any edge is painful. The lack of full screen on some windows is distracting when the desktop shows through.

Strangely enough, Mac was prefered by printers in the 90ies because back then, OSX was faster to navigate than Windows! This helped develop the 'Macs are better for graphics' urban legend we hear so often today.

But from the perspective of simple & speedy workflow, I currently find Windows 7 the fastest operating system available.

-------------------------------------

Comparing Macs vs PCs for Music Production

When it comes to music production, you should consider how much freeware you want to check out and use. While Logic is Mac only, the majority of music freeware is PC only.

Logic is great, potentially all you'll ever need, but some of the freeware out there fantastic too.

Macs have decent built in soundcards. Not all PC's do. When buying a PC, it is prudent to check the quality of the built in soundcard. PC's with Audigy cards will function like a dream. Considering PC's with the same spec as a Mac cost less, one could purchase a better specialist card than those that come built into Macs with the extra money saved through buying a PC.

ASIO drivers are available for both Mac and PC. Any serious producer only ever uses ASIO drivers, regardless of platform.

-------------------------------------

Comparing Macs vs PCs in terms of ease of setting up software and hardware

Your tolerance for technology may be an influential factor in your purchase. For my friend who is a technophobe, Macs have helped his production output increase.

For me personally, I don't find installing software or hardware on PC difficult. Windows 7 has many device drivers built in, so like Mac, most programs/hardware are simple to install.

While installing software is sometimes harder on a PC due to drivers, uninstalling software on a Mac can be troublesome too. This is especially true of cracked music software like Native Instruments products.

Dual booting raises the technical barrier again. I don't know any Mac users who actually know how to dual boot. If a Mac user is going for simplicity, dual booting kind of destroys the simplicity of Mac.

-------------------------------------

Differences between Macs and PC's by function

The functions you intend to perform on your computer may also guide your purchasing choice. When it comes to serious graphics and media production work, the boundaries of which platform are better become blurred.

For graphics and web design work, Adobe Create Suite is the industry standard software package. This software suite performs identically on both platforms, with no differences in features between the two. In the 80ies, Macs cam with a better font technology than was available on PC's. This cut the cost of desktop publishing at the time and many design houses bought Macs. This is no longer relevant today, as both Macs and PC's dominantly use the Opentype format developed by Adobe and Microsoft.

Working with video becomes a choice of which program to use. Adobe Premiere on the PC (or Mac) and Final Cut Pro (Mac only) are the leading solutions for non Hollywood scale studios. The popular Sony Vegas is PC only.

If you are serious about 3D graphics and games programming, the last time I checked, 3ds Max, Maya and Cinema 4D etc were PC only.

-----------------------------

Comparing Macs and PCs - Random Feature Comparison

- 'Macs don't crash'. My Windows 7 laptop doesn't either. I haven't had a single crash since I bought the thing in January 2010.

- 'Macs don't get viruses'. This isn't true, and as Macs become more popular, it becomes a better target for hackers. Again, since buying my current laptop I haven't had a virus.

- 'Macs have multi gesture mouse pads'. Today, most PC laptops do too.

- 'Macs screens are better'. Only compared to bargain basement laptops from supermarkets etc. If you have the money to drop on a Mac, the screen that comes on a high-end PC laptop will not disappoint. Again, serious graphic designers don't rely on Mac screens, prefering dedicated graphics monitors by NEC and LaCie etc.

- 'Macs look cool'. Oddly enough, several friends including three Mac users have commented on how cool my Packard Bell laptop looks... Packard Bell is hardly a 'cool' brand, yet the laptop they produced that I own does look cool.

-----------------------------

Comparing the price of Macs & PCs

price is an issue for many people.

Macs are expensive compared to similarly spec'd PCs. Why not spend the extra cash on silent computer components (desktop), software or extra studio hardware?

While Macs generally have a good build quality, by the time a PC laptop begins failing (3 or 4 years at least), the hardware will be long out of date. Will you really be using 3 or 4 year old out of date Mac in a few years time?

-----------------------------

In summary, I find Windows 7 is currently the easiest operating system to use.

- Tasks like finding, opening and organising programs and files is quick and easy.
- Installing new software and hardware is also quick and easy.
- Resizing windows whilst 'in the zone' producing music, graphics and websites is really simple and easy.

Finally, the PC laptop cost a fraction of the price of a Mac, and I am able to use lots of freeware in my studio setup!

[collige]

- In Win 7, moving your mouse to the bottom right corner of the screen lets the user see the desktop.

In OS X, you can set any corner to show the desktop, all open windows or the dashboard.

- Press the Windows button on the keyboard and start typing the name of the application or file you wish to find, and Win 7 starts displaying results as you type. This search feature is found at the top of every filebrowser window.

command + space does the same thing, no matter what application you're using. Windows also took the search bar idea from OS X.

- Any open apps/windows on the taskbar can be reshuffled in any order. This also makes working with multiple apps/windows easier and more logical.

you can do this on Mac too.

-Mac OSX doesn't allow all windows to go full screen, which becomes distracting on wide screens as the desktop shows through around the edges of the window that's open.

Incorrect.

But from the perspective of simple & speedy workflow, I currently find Windows 7 the fastest operating system available.

That's because you don't know how to use the damn OS. Learn to Expose.

If you are serious about 3D graphics and games programming, the last time I checked, 3ds Max, Maya and Cinema 4D etc were PC only.

Both Maya and Cinema 4D are on Mac. Maya is also on Linux.

[futures_untold]

- In Win 7, moving your mouse to the bottom right corner of the screen lets the user see the desktop.

In OS X, you can set any corner to show the desktop, all open windows or the dashboard.

How is this set up? By default, Windows seems to have a speedier workflow.

- Press the Windows button on the keyboard and start typing the name of the application or file you wish to find, and Win 7 starts displaying results as you type. This search feature is found at the top of every filebrowser window.

command + space does the same thing, no matter what application you're using. Windows also took the search bar idea from OS X.

I believe you're right, and this kind of feature has improved both platforms. In terms of functionality, my Mac user friend believes the windows search function finds things faster.

- Any open apps/windows on the taskbar can be reshuffled in any order. This also makes working with multiple apps/windows easier and more logical.

you can do this on Mac too.

Personally, I prefer Windows taskbar over OSX Docker. I like the fact it is highly customisable in Win 7, including options to function much like the OSX docker or to remain more like XP.

-Mac OSX doesn't allow all windows to go full screen, which becomes distracting on wide screens as the desktop shows through around the edges of the window that's open.

Incorrect.

Really? I have tried to make windows/apps go full screen and can't manage it...! (I click on the buttons in the top left corner of the window).

The lack of double-click full screen in OSX is a complete deal breaker for the entire platform for me. This feature alone speeds up my workflow more than anything else on both platforms! I'm not wholly against Mac. I like the iLife suite of programs more than the Windows equivalent.

But from the perspective of simple & speedy workflow, I currently find Windows 7 the fastest operating system available.

That's because you don't know how to use the damn OS. Learn to Expose.

What is Expose?

Macs are meant to be easier to use than PC's, but after being raised on PC's, I find them harder to use.

Why are the minimise, maximise and close buttons placed on the left? This confuses me everytime I use a Mac.

(Incidently, these buttons are a lot smaller on Mac than PC. This slows down my workflow when minimising, maximising and closing windows/apps. As simple and fast work flow is a priority for me, Windows 7 is currently my preffered operating system).

If you are serious about 3D graphics and games programming, the last time I checked, 3ds Max, Maya and Cinema 4D etc were PC only.

Both Maya and Cinema 4D are on Mac. Maya is also on Linux.

Last time I checked...

3ds Max is still big within the industry, and I'd be interested to know if the features are the same for both Maya and Cinema 4d on both platforms. The Mac version of Reaper was behind the PC version for a long time.

Fair enough if both packages are equal on both platforms. I suppose choosing which platform to use then becomes a choice based on whether one likes Macs design ethos and operating system.

------------------

Other points:

On OSX, I dislike how each program remains open at the top of the screen, even when the main window is minimised to the docker. Sometimes I end up looking at the menubar for an application when I'm actually trying to use the Finder menu. Very confusing!

The filebrowser on OSX doesn't seem to let me set the width of each window pane. This frustrates me immensely when I'm trying to find and organise files.

Personally, I dislike the default grey metal theme of OSX. Windows 7 allows users to customise the colour of the actual taskbar and window frames etc. I'm unsure if this is customisable on OSX? I'd be very amused if it isn't!

I'm poor by Western standards. The prices Apple charge sicken me considering the technology inside is under spec'd compared to PC's. Why don't the new Macbooks have USB 3 ports for instance? PC's are very customisable, and don't cost the earth to upgrade to '4Gb ram'...

I am shocked that many young media producers think Macs are better without actually knowing about the history of Macs and PC's. In truth, Macs originally were better than PC's for graphics, but today, the technical arguments are no longer relevant.

I'm not a yuppie, a misinformed fashionable arty-farty creative or a technophobe. Macs don't really appeal to me from a fashion perspective, so why would I want to drop extra cash on under spec'd technology?

I loved OSX a few years ago when I was based on XP, but since using Windows 7, OSX is painfully frustrating and limited (due to the windows resizing, menubars, small window buttons and non resizable window panes).

What it boils down to for me is speed and familiarity. I've been a Windows user since Windows 3.1, so I'm comfortable with the Windows layout. As mentioned, Windows 7 has the great ability to resize, open, close and hide windows the way I logically want. this makes Windows 7 a very fast environment for producing music and graphics.

I also use a lot of freeware, some of which simply isn't available on Mac. I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I transfered platforms.

[Depone]

- In Win 7, moving your mouse to the bottom right corner of the screen lets the user see the desktop.

In OS X, you can set any corner to show the desktop, all open windows or the dashboard.

How is this set up? By default, Windows seems to have a speedier workflow.

- Press the Windows button on the keyboard and start typing the name of the application or file you wish to find, and Win 7 starts displaying results as you type. This search feature is found at the top of every filebrowser window.

command + space does the same thing, no matter what application you're using. Windows also took the search bar idea from OS X.

I believe you're right, and this kind of feature has improved both platforms. In terms of functionality, my Mac user friend believes the windows search function finds things faster.

- Any open apps/windows on the taskbar can be reshuffled in any order. This also makes working with multiple apps/windows easier and more logical.

you can do this on Mac too.

Personally, I prefer Windows taskbar over OSX Docker. I like the fact it is highly customisable in Win 7, including options to function much like the OSX docker or to remain more like XP.

-Mac OSX doesn't allow all windows to go full screen, which becomes distracting on wide screens as the desktop shows through around the edges of the window that's open.

Incorrect.

Really? I have tried to make windows/apps go full screen and can't manage it...! (I click on the buttons in the top left corner of the window).

The lack of double-click full screen in OSX is a complete deal breaker for the entire platform for me. This feature alone speeds up my workflow more than anything else on both platforms! I'm not wholly against Mac. I like the iLife suite of programs more than the Windows equivalent.

But from the perspective of simple & speedy workflow, I currently find Windows 7 the fastest operating system available.

That's because you don't know how to use the damn OS. Learn to Expose.

What is Expose?

Macs are meant to be easier to use than PC's, but after being raised on PC's, I find them harder to use.

Why are the minimise, maximise and close buttons placed on the left? This confuses me everytime I use a Mac.

(Incidently, these buttons are a lot smaller on Mac than PC. This slows down my workflow when minimising, maximising and closing windows/apps. As simple and fast work flow is a priority for me, Windows 7 is currently my preffered operating system).

If you are serious about 3D graphics and games programming, the last time I checked, 3ds Max, Maya and Cinema 4D etc were PC only.

Both Maya and Cinema 4D are on Mac. Maya is also on Linux.

Last time I checked...

3ds Max is still big within the industry, and I'd be interested to know if the features are the same for both Maya and Cinema 4d on both platforms. The Mac version of Reaper was behind the PC version for a long time.

Fair enough if both packages are equal on both platforms. I suppose choosing which platform to use then becomes a choice based on whether one likes Macs design ethos and operating system.

------------------

Other points:

On OSX, I dislike how each program remains open at the top of the screen, even when the main window is minimised to the docker. Sometimes I end up looking at the menubar for an application when I'm actually trying to use the Finder menu. Very confusing!

The filebrowser on OSX doesn't seem to let me set the width of each window pane. This frustrates me immensely when I'm trying to find and organise files.

Personally, I dislike the default grey metal theme of OSX. Windows 7 allows users to customise the colour of the actual taskbar and window frames etc. I'm unsure if this is customisable on OSX? I'd be very amused if it isn't!

I'm poor by Western standards. The prices Apple charge sicken me considering the technology inside is under spec'd compared to PC's. Why don't the new Macbooks have USB 3 ports for instance? PC's are very customisable, and don't cost the earth to upgrade to '4Gb ram'...

I am shocked that many young media producers think Macs are better without actually knowing about the history of Macs and PC's. In truth, Macs originally were better than PC's for graphics, but today, the technical arguments are no longer relevant.

I'm not a yuppie, a misinformed fashionable arty-farty creative or a technophobe. Macs don't really appeal to me from a fashion perspective, so why would I want to drop extra cash on under spec'd technology?

I loved OSX a few years ago when I was based on XP, but since using Windows 7, OSX is painfully frustrating and limited (due to the windows resizing, menubars, small window buttons and non resizable window panes).

What it boils down to for me is speed and familiarity. I've been a Windows user since Windows 3.1, so I'm comfortable with the Windows layout. As mentioned, Windows 7 has the great ability to resize, open, close and hide windows the way I logically want. this makes Windows 7 a very fast environment for producing music and graphics.

I also use a lot of freeware, some of which simply isn't available on Mac. I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I transfered platforms.

A lot of these points shows that your not used to mac osx, not that its better or worse. Also in all the points mentioned, i feel you have neglected proper research on how these features were implemented in mac OSX from like version 10.3-4 or something. A good 5-6 years ago.
As for the "Windows 7 has the great ability to resize, open, close and hide windows" ... you must be living in the past man. Of course mac can do all these.
I use windows 7 as well, i like it, but mac has every option windows 7 has as far as the explorer/finder goes. Even the sporlight search/quick search function was way back in osx 10.4 4 years back, and is the same technology, indexing files...

[tripaddict]

FYI just thought id mention steam is now available on mac

[Elkie]

get both, only way to know for sure...






DOES IT REALLY MATTER?!

[collige]

What is Expose?

Expose gives you live preview of every window you have open and lets you pick one by clicking on it. It is by default set to F3 and swipe downwards with 4 fingers on macbooks, but you can assign it to any mouse button, screen corner, function key, or modifier key. It basically makes the dock useless as an application switcher and gets rid of the need to ever minimize a window since you can just put another one on top of it and switch between them.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/what-is-macosx/expose.html

[Elkie]

be a REAL badman... and get an atari!

[futures_untold]

I admit I haven't really researched into how OSX works fully. But at the same time, many other points remain valid. (I don't have the money for 'stylish' harware, I use freeware that isn't available on Mac etc).

For a system that is mooted as being 'easy', so many little things don't seem to be present at first glance.

My friend has had his Mac for only a few months, and truly I don't understand how to get the windows resizing properly with a double click, or the file browser panes to resize etc.

I'm going to give Mac OSX a proper work out when I get time, and learn how to do all the things I want to be able to do. Expose does sound really good too.

As for price...