Police on strike...

[Pedro Sánchez]

We wouldn't need the police if we lived in smaller-scale societies where everyone looked out for each other

Areas like that do exist, they are called council estates,only they are rife with economical problems (I say problems, but we all know that ain't the correct term) which pushes the crime levels to the top.

[noam]

whats the motto written on Police cars in America dude?

I'm considered a minority and living in the south and the only time I've ever been fucked with was when I was high, carrying drugs, on my way to get high or get drugs, or fighting. All situations that as an adult I can recognize that I should've been fucked with by the police.

Not sure how it is in the UK.... but generally the cops do a decent job.....

and how many times have you done any of those activities and got away with them??

[firky]

We wouldn't need the police if we lived in smaller-scale societies where everyone looked out for each other

Areas like that do exist, they are called council estates,only they are rife with economical problems (I say problems, but we all know that ain't the correct term) which pushes the crime levels to the top.

There's only crime because of the socio-economic tight belt that the proletariat are forced to live. Coupled with stigma that anyone from such a place is automatically dodgy, or thick, or somewhat less of a person is never far away.

[firky]

We wouldn't need the police if we lived in smaller-scale societies where everyone looked out for each other

Areas like that do exist, they are called council estates,only they are rife with economical problems (I say problems, but we all know that ain't the correct term) which pushes the crime levels to the top.

There's only crime because of the socio-economic tight belt that the proletariat are forced to live. Coupled with stigma that anyone from such a place is automatically dodgy, or thick, or somewhat less of a person is never far away. Test recordings is right. We don't need a police force if we lived in small cooperative anarchist societies (which already exist in this country (somewhat) and Europe) with a vigilante (for want of a better word) approach to dealing with trouble. It is always important to remember why the police force was brought into existence, it was not to prevent crime or protect the vulnerable.

Not a bad little bit on the subject here:

http://weblog.timoregan.com/archive/200 ... ou-and-me/

There's more academic writings than that but you get the jist.

[64hz]

let the police go on strike for 6 months (with no martial law)!!

then watch how we "the people", would react.

firstly there would be an increase in crime, mostly theft, burglary, intentional damage, fighting, etc.
( I doubt murder, rape, kidnap, & other extreme crime would grow much).

then people would start banding together to deal with the issues.
there would be renegade squads patrolling our streets.

I can only speak from expierience, but in the town I lived in in Kenya, vigilante civilian patrols were set up to patrol some of the more dangerous 'streets'. It worked fairly well, and the area was relatively safe until vigilante patrols turned protection gangs and extorted the populace for cash, they wouldnt protect those who didnt pay them and even attacked people themselves. Only trying to feed their own families I guess, but in dire times desperate people will do anything for their own kin. However, that region of Kenya is rife with inter-tribal conflict, so that issue adds to the problem, we wouldnt have quite the same reaction here imo.

youre right, there are soooo many pointless laws though, which infact hinder the police as opposed to making them more efficient.

[test_recordings]

We wouldn't need the police if we lived in smaller-scale societies where everyone looked out for each other

Areas like that do exist, they are called council estates,only they are rife with economical problems (I say problems, but we all know that ain't the correct term) which pushes the crime levels to the top.

There's only crime because of the socio-economic tight belt that the proletariat are forced to live. Coupled with stigma that anyone from such a place is automatically dodgy, or thick, or somewhat less of a person is never far away. Test recordings is right. We don't need a police force if we lived in small cooperative anarchist societies (which already exist in this country (somewhat) and Europe) with a vigilante (for want of a better word) approach to dealing with trouble. It is always important to remember why the police force was brought into existence, it was not to prevent crime or protect the vulnerable.

Not a bad little bit on the subject here:

http://weblog.timoregan.com/archive/200 ... ou-and-me/

There's more academic writings than that but you get the jist.

Of course, the concept of a police force is designed to enforce the status quo and thus perpetuating all the ills of society. The police can't be apolitical, they are a political institution as much as the army, NHS and education system. We need to re-write the rule book so society is fair and equal to solve all our problems!

[Pedro Sánchez]

We don't need a police force if we lived in small cooperative anarchist societies (which already exist in this country (somewhat) and Europe) with a vigilante (for want of a better word) approach to dealing with trouble. It is always important to remember why the police force was brought into existence, it was not to prevent crime or protect the vulnerable.

I completely agree,
but there is always the danger of those who enforce that protection adopting a slightly gang mentality and punishing innocent people because of the lack of investigation methods. It happens in places like Mexico and Brazil where the local residents of areas have formed their own police, (vigilante) fought back against the young gangs because the police ain't doing their jobs. But some of the vigilante began to beat the fuck out of kids before they had a chance to do something wrong or if they were dressed like those in a gang. So it's the training that a police is given that is key, you can't give someone the responsibility of carry out crime prevention without the knowledge, skills and training needed and essentially that is what a 'local police' force was only now they are police officers, a target driven super state corporate.
I'm saying that growing up on a couple of shithole council estates where you would get local 'hard-men' kicking fuck out of teen thieves for snatching handbags, then the next day getting it wrong and breaking the hand of some poor sod because they were new to the area and looked shifty, but that poor sod can't call the police because they won't go anywhere near that estate without a van full.

[firky]

Rain down justice IRA style on smack dealers!



Double tap a 9mm slug into each kneecap.

[test_recordings]

Or just do what Portugal has done and ignore them, having decriminalised all drug use.




Levels of drug use have dropped significantly since 2001 when this was implemented.

[dubmatters]

Or just do what Portugal has done and ignore them, having decriminalised all drug use.




Levels of drug use have dropped significantly since 2001 when this was implemented.

The police in Portugal will have no problem in smashing your skull with a baton if your out of line.

[noam]

Or just do what Portugal has done and ignore them, having decriminalised all drug use.




Levels of drug use have dropped significantly since 2001 when this was implemented.

The police in Portugal will have no problem in smashing your skull with a baton if your out of line.

yeah so to prevent excessive beatings they decriminalised drugs.... thus making it harder to be 'out of line'

win/win

[Redd]

OK, calm down.
I did read some of them yes. And I'm not disagreeing with you, it is 'unacceptable' but I'm not getting drawn into an argument about some cases I've
got absolutely no experience or insight into apart from the articles you posted from the media.

For the most part Police deal with child sexual, mental and sexual abuse as well as vulnerable adults, and of course serious sexual offenses.

Didn't you read what I stated? there are hundreds of thousands of cases in this bracket every year over the UK, and you pick four examples when things go wrong?

The truth is you generally only hear the negative when things go wrong, not the positive results when he crimes are solved and paedophile's, rapists and sex offenders are
locked up.

Your last claim is certainly true but it's not sufficient to establish that the these positive outcomes occur as often as they should. If you look at the actual conviction rates you'd find that there are more examples of things going wrong than there are things going right:

9/10 rapes go unreported.
6% of those reported rapes make it to court.
58% of the 6% which make it to court result in conviction.

which means that:

if 100/1000 are reported.
6 of those 100 go to court.
3/4 get convicted.

therefore:

3/4 rapes out of every 100 reported result in conviction.

As the courts manage to produce a conviction from 58% of the cases which make it to them, the shortfall lies in policing as it is their inadequacy which means that only 6 out of a hundred reported cases make it to court. To return to the original point, the police are ineffective at handling this type of crime.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/ ... or-general

I apologise for coming across as a bit cutting in my previous post, but making unjustified assertions as to the effectiveness of the police in these matters contributes to the problem - and it's an emotionally charged issue. Hard not to freak out about.

I'm not a fan of the rape-conviction rate at all but you can't just look at it like that. The reason most rape cases don't get to court is because the evidence simply isn't enough to convict. Most rapes are done by people already known to the victim and it's extremely hard to gather sufficient evidence to dispel all doubt of innocence with a magistrate/jury. You can't blame the police for not sending cases to court that have no chance of conviction... it costs too much.

[test_recordings]

I agree, statistics can be very misleading without acknowledging their context or explaining them in their entirety. I wonder if there's any articles or reports that explain this fully..?

[noam]

I agree, statistics can be very misleading without acknowledging their context or explaining them in their entirety. I wonder if there's any articles or reports that explain this fully..?

\

specifically to do with Rape or just statistics in general??

Alphacat posted an article some months ago about the misunderstanding and misuse of statistics which is commonplace in both science and media... have a search through his posts, if i think of the name i'll post it here

[64hz]

I agree, statistics can be very misleading without acknowledging their context or explaining them in their entirety. I wonder if there's any articles or reports that explain this fully..?

not sure if you mean specifically in the context of rape, but heres an article i posted earlier in the thread

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ading.html

[test_recordings]

Sorry, I meant rape specifically but that article was very good regarding statistics in general which could be extrapolated to this...

[Redd]

I agree, statistics can be very misleading without acknowledging their context or explaining them in their entirety. I wonder if there's any articles or reports that explain this fully..?

Not too sure about articles... We got taught about it on my Engligh Legal System/constitutional law course. Could point you to a few books but as the main reason for the figures seems to be how the justice system is run (which can't really be changed considering the rightly immovable innocent until proven guilty rule), there aren't too many plausible alternatives to be considered that I've seen..
Most of the 6 or 7% allegations are just standard media fare imo... it's more of a problem that there will be real rape victims about who are too scared/ashamed to go to the police in the first place.

[test_recordings]

Sorry, I meant rape specifically but that article was very good regarding statistics in general which could be extrapolated to this...

There was a good thread in here but I don't have the time to look for it for other people to read.