Sending mastered tracks to a label?

[Toric]

Changing the context to support your argument. Very post modern.

The industry changes constantly, what worked 5 years ago in an economic recession for multiple powerhouse countries won't work today.

Good lord, something we agree on. Yes, the industry has changed - which is why in today's climate, an underground label (even one as high profile as Deep Medi) is not selling 30k+ per release.

:/ I wish I could post screenshots of statistics man. Hopefully Deep Medi gets back to me with an e-mail soon.

The only info free to the public that I could find is that untrue by burials peaked at #58 on the UK album chart on 2008, which is probably WAY more than 30k, considering Lady GaGa was like #40 the following year (and she generally sells a shit ton of music).

Small comparison, no real facts, but there, once again I've done something just for you Wub.

Edit: Here's some more info for you Wub. A quick google trends search to show you the difference between dubstep popularity on 2008 when that record apparently sold 70k record and today. which I guarantee has boosted sales tremendously.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=dubstep

-T

[atticuh]

Good luck with your career dude.

-T

I'm not worried about my career, bro. I'll be an accountant in about two semesters. I know how to make money as well as run a business, but I don't make music for money. I make it, because I have something to say. Maybe even for the sheer love of it. TBH, I feel sorry for you, lol.

It's you that will need the luck.

And you should probably invest in some business classes, rofl, before you start "self-releasing" via aggregators.

[Toric]

Good luck with your career dude.

-T

I'm not worried about my career, bro. I'll be an accountant in about two semesters. I know how to make money as well as run a business, but I don't make music for money. I make it, because I have something to say. Maybe even for the sheer love of it. TBH, I feel sorry for you, lol.

It's you that will need the luck.

And you should probably invest in some business classes, rofl, before you start "self-releasing" via aggregators.

I don't need aggregators, I have distro through Sony.....

[wub]

The only info free to the public that I could find is that untrue by burials peaked at #58 on the UK album chart on 2008, which is probably WAY more than 30k, considering Lady GaGa was like #40 the following year (and she generally sells a shit ton of music)

Small comparison, no real facts, but there, once again I've done something just for you Wub.

Once again - sorry, I must've missed the other thing(s) you've done for me in this thread? Think you're getting me confused with some other users, must be confusing all these people taking a different side to you all at once.




While we're at it (and this isn't directed at your Toric, so feel free not to reply), did you know that in the year 2005-2006 single sales of as little as 2500-3000 would've been enough to secure a top 40 UK singles chart position?

[atticuh]

Good luck with your career dude.

-T

I'm not worried about my career, bro. I'll be an accountant in about two semesters. I know how to make money as well as run a business, but I don't make music for money. I make it, because I have something to say. Maybe even for the sheer love of it. TBH, I feel sorry for you, lol.

It's you that will need the luck.

And you should probably invest in some business classes, rofl, before you start "self-releasing" via aggregators.

I don't need aggregators, I have distro through Sony.....

You would think someone that has distribution through Sony (LOL), would be capable of managing sibilance in a track.

[Toric]

The only info free to the public that I could find is that untrue by burials peaked at #58 on the UK album chart on 2008, which is probably WAY more than 30k, considering Lady GaGa was like #40 the following year (and she generally sells a shit ton of music)

Small comparison, no real facts, but there, once again I've done something just for you Wub.

Once again - sorry, I must've missed the other thing(s) you've done for me in this thread? Think you're getting me confused with some other users, must be confusing all these people taking a different side to you all at once.




While we're at it (and this isn't directed at your Toric, so feel free not to reply), did you know that in the year 2005-2006 single sales of as little as 2500-3000 would've been enough to secure a top 40 UK singles chart position?

What were the minimum sales at that time period?

It changes from year to year based on the economy and overall sales.

You would think someone that has distribution through Sony (LOL), would be capable of managing sibilance in a track.

Y'know, you'd be surprised how many people don't know how to do thing properly and are selling millions of tracks nowadays. That's why engineers make money.

If you're referring to the track in my sig, it's a demo. I spent a day and a half on it maybe (not 36 hours, but probably more like 12 hours. which is an 8 hour day and a 4 hour day. day and a half). So cool, you can judge that track if you want. Any of the tunes I am going to release are probably (I say probably because I never know what I'm going to go back and rework) not up on the internet, and won't be until release.

-T

[ambinate]

The only info free to the public that I could find is that untrue by burials peaked at #58 on the UK album chart on 2008, which is probably WAY more than 30k, considering Lady GaGa was like #40 the following year (and she generally sells a shit ton of music).

i'm using a random example from a band not in the dubstep genre here, but i think it's still relevant. opeth released "watershed" in 2008. it hit #23 in the US charts with sales of 19,000 in its first week.

source: http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... emID=98838

at #23 they're within spitting distance of the top 10, and they didn't have 30k first-week sales in a country with more than 300 million people in it. i'm sure they've gone way past 30k since then, but do we really think burial, peaking at #58 in the uk (which has something like 60 or 70 million people, i think?), sold "WAY more than 30k"?

i don't have a clue what kind of numbers labels like Deep Medi or Hyperdub are putting up, but i would seriously doubt it's 30k with each release.

[skimpi]

What are the actual odds of that happening to someone?

well yeah its not gonna happen to everyone, but if your tunes are good enough, then it will be picked up, if you send your music out to enough people, and it is good then someone is bound to listen. DJ's are open to getting sent new music, so if you send it and they are drawn in, in the 30 seconds they skim through, then they will play it and then other people will hear.

Think about it. Are you sure this guy didn't sell any records or do any self promotion? Being an unknown worldwide is much different than being an unknown period. If you have a local following, it helps your chances of getting attention from a label. I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE to get signed without having done any self promotion, but the guy didn't just sit around with his tunes doing nothing with them.

actually he thought the tunes were shit and they were just on his computer, so yes he was pretty unknown.


oh you want a source do I hear you say?

http://www.dummymag.com/new-music/2011/ ... interview/

3rd paragraph down

I'm sure he promoted, got feedback, did all the necessary things to help is own production and then got lucky. It happens. If you're gonna base your music career on that, then good luck. I don't base my financial future on luck (that's called gambling), I base it on knowledge, training, experience, and schooling. Cold hard facts. Promoting my own music is the way I've chosen to do it, and I think it's a good way, especially if you're looking to make some money off it and maybe even get signed to a label who can connect you with MORE fans. Dubstep is the new "in" right now, and sales are going to skyrocket in the future. Atleast, that's what I see. Sure, I might be in it for the money just a little bit, but I have bills to pay and a genetic illness to keep under control. So I'm surviving, and I choose to take my career as far as possible. I like dubstep a lot, and that's why I chose to start making dubstep. I also chose it, over other genres that I could have easily broken in to, based on my own research.

So yes, record labels like Deep Medi, if they already aren't, are probably selling over 30,000 copies of songs for even just smaller artists. If you can't believe it, I'm sure you will in the next few years when dubstep gets EVEN BIGGER.

This also means these labels have a bigger talent pool to select from in the future, and can set more standards and be more picky. They might not be in it for the money, but they sure as hell aren't running a record label in their spare time. They do have to pay bills, y'know? If Deep Medi has been around for more than 5 years and they don't have at least 30k people on a mailing list, they may end up being bought out or phased out. It's the facts of business. I've seen many industries change over the 22 years I've been alive, and I have some people in my family/extended family who have watched and even contributed to that change over the past 40 or so years.

30,000 is really not a lot guys. Sorry to say it. 30k should be a starting goal if you're serious about being a musician as a career.



-T

Im not basing my music career on anything, i havent got a music career. you know your going to have to become some sort of popstar if you want to live off your music? there is NO money in music these days, the only way you are gonna make money out of it is from doing shows, and thats probably where mala gets his money from, not deep medi! yes he may make a profit, but he aint making 30,000 a year from the label.

i havent got a goal of what to sell with music, i dont care about selling my music, if someone wants to release it, and i feel its the right place to release it then yeah i would, but all i aint making music because i wanna make money, i just like making tunes.

:/ I wish I could post screenshots of statistics man. Hopefully Deep Medi gets back to me with an e-mail soon.

The only info free to the public that I could find is that untrue by burials peaked at #58 on the UK album chart on 2008, which is probably WAY more than 30k, considering Lady GaGa was like #40 the following year (and she generally sells a shit ton of music).

and with this little 'fact' here i dont get what you mean, lady gaga would have got to #1 most definately, not #40. when she was at 40 that was probably after selling the 'shit ton of music'. the charts are run weekly you know. so when she was at 40 most people had probably already bought he album which is why she got to #1, and during that week she probably didnt sell that many.

you seem to just be chatting ALOT of shit about the industry and clearly cant see the difference between chart music, and the underground scene.

[Toric]

The only info free to the public that I could find is that untrue by burials peaked at #58 on the UK album chart on 2008, which is probably WAY more than 30k, considering Lady GaGa was like #40 the following year (and she generally sells a shit ton of music).

i'm using a random example from a band not in the dubstep genre here, but i think it's still relevant. opeth released "watershed" in 2008. it hit #23 in the US charts with sales of 19,000 in its first week.

source: http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... emID=98838

at #23 they're within spitting distance of the top 10, and they didn't have 30k first-week sales in a country with more than 300 million people in it. i'm sure they've gone way past 30k since then, but do we really think burial, peaking at #58 in the uk (which has something like 60 or 70 million people, i think?), sold "WAY more than 30k"?

i don't have a clue what kind of numbers labels like Deep Medi or Hyperdub are putting up, but i would seriously doubt it's 30k with each release.

My whole argument is the long term investment a label makes and the long term income they get. Every release is an investment with long term goals and operations including marketing and promotion.

The amount you sell on release is just a promotional tool.

I don't even think I can get release info from the RIAA, and that's america alone.

19k in america alone, and what's the record sales amount in the UK? Germany? Sweden? Norway? Those all add up as well.

Also, I wouldn't compare metal and dance music with sales. It's a whole different world, but the principals are the same. Dance music puts merchandise and song sales first, where as metal bands put touring and merchandising. You can't make money between 4 guys with 19k sales. They make their money elsewhere. A lot of it has to do with the face that most fans thing record labels in that industry just rip off the bands so they don't but the music anyways.

also, that's 19k x the amount of the full album (usually what, 15-20 bucks? and then special editions are 30-35). On top of that it charted in all of these other countries.

Finland: #1
Sweden: #7
Norway: #7
Australia: #7
Holland: #14
Japan: #15 (Oricon chart)
Canada: #17
USA: #23
UK: #34
Italy: #42
Ireland: #59

So it's a lot more money than someone selling 40,000 copies of a single, and in addition to that, the label has pumped out even MORE money into releasing it because releasing a metal band like Opeth is a much more old school approach. Studio time, CD replication (not duplication, but replication which is for quantities over x amount depending on the duplication/replication company). Most people choose to download the music because they're just going to buy a shirt or see them in concert anyways, and they think that (and it does happen) record labels take all of the sales from CDS. They do this because the artist accrues a huge debt printing/writing/recording/producing said album. A debt that they spend a long amount of their times repaying.

So basically, it's the same, really. 19k albums sales in the USA alone (where they aren't even really popular) is a good accomplishment. I'm sure it sold much more than that worldwide.

-T

[Toric]

What are the actual odds of that happening to someone?

well yeah its not gonna happen to everyone, but if your tunes are good enough, then it will be picked up, if you send your music out to enough people, and it is good then someone is bound to listen. DJ's are open to getting sent new music, so if you send it and they are drawn in, in the 30 seconds they skim through, then they will play it and then other people will hear.

Think about it. Are you sure this guy didn't sell any records or do any self promotion? Being an unknown worldwide is much different than being an unknown period. If you have a local following, it helps your chances of getting attention from a label. I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE to get signed without having done any self promotion, but the guy didn't just sit around with his tunes doing nothing with them.

actually he thought the tunes were shit and they were just on his computer, so yes he was pretty unknown.


oh you want a source do I hear you say?

http://www.dummymag.com/new-music/2011/ ... interview/

3rd paragraph down

I'm sure he promoted, got feedback, did all the necessary things to help is own production and then got lucky. It happens. If you're gonna base your music career on that, then good luck. I don't base my financial future on luck (that's called gambling), I base it on knowledge, training, experience, and schooling. Cold hard facts. Promoting my own music is the way I've chosen to do it, and I think it's a good way, especially if you're looking to make some money off it and maybe even get signed to a label who can connect you with MORE fans. Dubstep is the new "in" right now, and sales are going to skyrocket in the future. Atleast, that's what I see. Sure, I might be in it for the money just a little bit, but I have bills to pay and a genetic illness to keep under control. So I'm surviving, and I choose to take my career as far as possible. I like dubstep a lot, and that's why I chose to start making dubstep. I also chose it, over other genres that I could have easily broken in to, based on my own research.

So yes, record labels like Deep Medi, if they already aren't, are probably selling over 30,000 copies of songs for even just smaller artists. If you can't believe it, I'm sure you will in the next few years when dubstep gets EVEN BIGGER.

This also means these labels have a bigger talent pool to select from in the future, and can set more standards and be more picky. They might not be in it for the money, but they sure as hell aren't running a record label in their spare time. They do have to pay bills, y'know? If Deep Medi has been around for more than 5 years and they don't have at least 30k people on a mailing list, they may end up being bought out or phased out. It's the facts of business. I've seen many industries change over the 22 years I've been alive, and I have some people in my family/extended family who have watched and even contributed to that change over the past 40 or so years.

30,000 is really not a lot guys. Sorry to say it. 30k should be a starting goal if you're serious about being a musician as a career.



-T

Im not basing my music career on anything, i havent got a music career. you know your going to have to become some sort of popstar if you want to live off your music? there is NO money in music these days, the only way you are gonna make money out of it is from doing shows, and thats probably where mala gets his money from, not deep medi! yes he may make a profit, but he aint making 30,000 a year from the label.

i havent got a goal of what to sell with music, i dont care about selling my music, if someone wants to release it, and i feel its the right place to release it then yeah i would, but all i aint making music because i wanna make money, i just like making tunes.

:/ I wish I could post screenshots of statistics man. Hopefully Deep Medi gets back to me with an e-mail soon.

The only info free to the public that I could find is that untrue by burials peaked at #58 on the UK album chart on 2008, which is probably WAY more than 30k, considering Lady GaGa was like #40 the following year (and she generally sells a shit ton of music).

and with this little 'fact' here i dont get what you mean, lady gaga would have got to #1 most definately, not #40. when she was at 40 that was probably after selling the 'shit ton of music'. the charts are run weekly you know. so when she was at 40 most people had probably already bought he album which is why she got to #1, and during that week she probably didnt sell that many.

you seem to just be chatting ALOT of shit about the industry and clearly cant see the difference between chart music, and the underground scene.

GaGa was at that spot at the same time as the album that was released a year after that. It wasn't supposed to be a hard fact, but if you take the time to realize that she probably peaked at number one two months before that and was shadowed by her next single or someone else, then you'd realize that she probably still sold quite a few thousand copies in just that week. How can you stay on a chart for a long time without selling a lot of music?

I do know the difference between an underground scene and charted music. The difference is there are no labels in an underground scene. The labels aren't super sturdy and they probably aren't as pick as a label in an established scene. Dubstep isn't underground anymore. It's over, it's gone mainstream.

Why would you think you'd have to be a popstar to make a living doing music? There are plenty of jobs in the music industry in which you can make money at, you just have to find them. You also have to be good at what you do.

If you're doing music for fun or just for a hobby, then a small label is probably best for you, but they probably aren't going to push you very hard as you probably don't have time to work with their promotion schedule. If you get on a label that is willing to let you be a hobby musician, then good for you. I don't know many labels that do that, as most people who own record labels are trying to make a living doing it.

Also, if you think you can get on a label like Deep Medi and just be a hobbyist, you're certainly wrong. They have a release schedule, due dates, promotional activities, meetings, festivals, conventions. They aren't going to let you sit at home while they hire someone to go to all these things. As an artist, you are their EMPLOYEE and you will be TREATED AS SUCH. If you miss a due date, you either have to wait until next release schedule ( a year from then) or you're just plain kicked off the label. Depends on the situation.

So if you're doing it for the love of music, release your own tunes and promote them yourself, as you won't have time to have a career, feed your family, and work for a label at the same time. It just DOESN'T HAPPEN.

Mala most certainly is making more than 30k a year from Deep Medi, I can guarantee that.

-T

[skimpi]

GaGa was at that spot at the same time as the album that was released a year after that. It wasn't supposed to be a hard fact, but if you take the time to realize that she probably peaked at number one two months before that and was shadowed by her next single or someone else, then you'd realize that she probably still sold quite a few thousand copies in just that week. How can you stay on a chart for a long time without selling a lot of music?

I do know the difference between an underground scene and charted music. The difference is there are no labels in an underground scene. The labels aren't super sturdy and they probably aren't as pick as a label in an established scene. Dubstep isn't underground anymore. It's over, it's gone mainstream.

Why would you think you'd have to be a popstar to make a living doing music? There are plenty of jobs in the music industry in which you can make money at, you just have to find them. You also have to be good at what you do.

If you're doing music for fun or just for a hobby, then a small label is probably best for you, but they probably aren't going to push you very hard as you probably don't have time to work with their promotion schedule. If you get on a label that is willing to let you be a hobby musician, then good for you. I don't know many labels that do that, as most people who own record labels are trying to make a living doing it.

Also, if you think you can get on a label like Deep Medi and just be a hobbyist, you're certainly wrong. They have a release schedule, due dates, promotional activities, meetings, festivals, conventions. They aren't going to let you sit at home while they hire someone to go to all these things. As an artist, you are their EMPLOYEE and you will be TREATED AS SUCH. If you miss a due date, you either have to wait until next release schedule ( a year from then) or you're just plain kicked off the label. Depends on the situation.

So if you're doing it for the love of music, release your own tunes and promote them yourself, as you won't have time to have a career, feed your family, and work for a label at the same time. It just DOESN'T HAPPEN.

Mala most certainly is making more than 30k a year from Deep Medi, I can guarantee that.

-T

yeah gaga probably did sell lots of copies, but your point was that she was at 40 and burial was at 58 so he must have sold loads, but the week she was at 40, she probably didnt sell that much, well probably not 30,000.

there are labels in the underground scene, you keep thinking of labels as big corporate businesses, that are out to make lots of money, but all the labels who i follow and would call big, arent like that. they are run by a few guys who put what money they can into releasing music they like, when they can. you talk about release schedules, promotion stuff, conventions!? wtf. you are thinking of it like a band, who are signed to a label, and tour their albums, and have shit loads of interviews to promote their new album, and kind of have duties in the contract when they sign. but the underground scene like deep medi for instance dont do that. they may have a launch night for the single, and a few interviews in magaznes and stuff. but nothing you couldnt do with having a job at the same time. the labels may release 1 single, just two tracks from a specific producer, they are contracted to do so many tunes, they just release them when they are done. you arent legally binded to be their servants and make tracks when they see fit.

you have a different idea of dubstep than me, the dubstep i listen to isnt mainstream at all. not alot of it is. who is mainstream? dj fresh and nero got number 1s, thats pretty mainstream yeah. but its not deep medi is it, hell even datsik and the like arent mainstream, they are just big in the scene, and a small percentage of the scene is mainstream.

mate i dont wanna release and promote my tunes myself, i just send them out to people and if they like they like, and if somone wants to release it then so be it. but you are thinking of it wrong again, in this side of the scene that most people are talking about in here, people dont WORK for labels, people make tunes and then different labels release them. and they probably work other jobs, until they get enough bookings to bring in money so that they dont have to work.

[Mad_EP]

I just got dumber by reading this thread...

[Sparxy]

I just got dumber by reading this thread...

It's ridiculous. I can't believe he's still chatting shit as well

[Toric]

you talk about release schedules, promotion stuff, conventions!? wtf.

Your label doesn't have a release schedule? Or a promotion and marketing plan? Doesn't go to the usual networking conventions? Doesn't sound like a label to me at ALL.

Sounds like someone releasing music for a hobby.

Deep Medi has a release schedule. A marketing team. They also have representatives at networking gatherings/conventions. If they didn't, the wouldn't be in business.

Just FYI, a release schedule is REQUIRED by most (if not all) distributors, or they won't distribute your product. This includes Beatport and Juno.

-T

[hifi]

what is going on here. left a while ago and came back just to read all this tomfoolery about labels.

[__________]

Just FYI, a release schedule is REQUIRED by most (if not all) distributors, or they won't distribute your product. This includes Beatport and Juno.

Just FYI, that's not true.

[Sparxy]

Just FYI, a release schedule is REQUIRED by most (if not all) distributors, or they won't distribute your product. This includes Beatport and Juno.

Just FYI, that's not true.

Not true at all. Also Beatport and Juno are not distributors, they are retailers. You really don't have a clue what you're on about do you?

I do know the difference between an underground scene and charted music. The difference is there are no labels in an underground scene. The labels aren't super sturdy and they probably aren't as pick as a label in an established scene. Dubstep isn't underground anymore. It's over, it's gone mainstream.

WTF are you on about mate? Again, total shit. I can assure you there is a thriving underground scene in dubstep, regardless of what is happening in the mainstream. There are more underground labels than you can shake a stick at!

If you're doing music for fun or just for a hobby, then a small label is probably best for you, but they probably aren't going to push you very hard as you probably don't have time to work with their promotion schedule. If you get on a label that is willing to let you be a hobby musician, then good for you. I don't know many labels that do that, as most people who own record labels are trying to make a living doing it.

Complete rubbish. Do you know ANYTHING about small labels? I run one and I can assure you this is NOT the case. I push all my artists as hard as I can and its resulted in airplay on a number of radio stations, analogue and online (including Rinse FM and the BBC). I do a lot more for my artists as well but i'm not going into this with you now, because I can't be arsed and frankly, you're a fool. Also referring back to Wub's point earlier... if you're big, then you started out on a small label. That's the way it is. Deadmau5's first release was on a small label... as were countless more big artists...

TBH id rather sign a hobby producer, it would mean they're not only out to line their own pockets and have a passion for the music and the scene, unlike you who seems to be seeking mainstream success, only in it for the cash (which i'm pretty sure you're not going to get having listened to your tunes) and is full of bullshit.

There are so many more of your points I can call you out on but I don't have the time. I think most people can read your complete BS and come to the right conclusion anyway. I find it unbelievable that no one in this thread has agreed with you, you have been proven wrong multiple times yet you are still fighting your corner and preaching absolute arse.

I don't know about you but I got into music because I loved it. If I ever earn any money off of it, its a massive bonus. But for the meantime i'm happy just to be involved, doing what I love.

[Mad_EP]

you talk about release schedules, promotion stuff, conventions!? wtf.

Your label doesn't have a release schedule? Or a promotion and marketing plan? Doesn't go to the usual networking conventions? Doesn't sound like a label to me at ALL.

Sounds like someone releasing music for a hobby.

Deep Medi has a release schedule. A marketing team. They also have representatives at networking gatherings/conventions. If they didn't, the wouldn't be in business.

Just FYI, a release schedule is REQUIRED by most (if not all) distributors, or they won't distribute your product. This includes Beatport and Juno.

-T

Look - we all get it, you are a young kid who is excited that he has worked a bit in the business and thinks he is in the "know"... you took a marketing class at Uni, worked at some metal label as a marketing intern...and that's great, but you are trying to apply irrelevant generalizations to unrelated situations.

I have worked for bigger companies than you - and yeah, I know what IS possible in the music industry, but that doesn't mean it is possible for mid-sized Dubstep labels/artists. I used to be a classical booking agent where I would secure fees ranging from 10k-50k per gig for most of the solo artists on the roster... and the unknown, up & coming soloists would get 3k-5k. Do you know how ridiculous it would be if I tried to apply that to Dubstep - to say.. "hey, if you are an unknown DJ - you should be demanding at least 3k per gig, otherwise you aren't really a DJ"...

Things are very different in EDM than they are for almost any genre. Sure - even for punk or metal, 10k units of a 7" is a drop in the hat.... but that just isn't the case for electronic music. A lot of notable labels are still run by only 1 or 2 people. Warp has a decent sized staff - and there are a few people working for labels like Ninja Tune, Planet Mu, etc... but to act like most labels (let alone Dubstep-centric labels) have marketing TEAMS?? You are simply regurgitating what your marketing 101 class told you there *should* be in place, not knowing for a fact the way things are. Most of these labels, if they have *anyone* purely for marketing, will have 1 person... or more likely, they farm it out to a publicity firm. But they don't have dedicated Marketing Teams. And as far as going to networking conventions... what conventions have you been going to where you have seen Deep Medi, Hyperdub, Tectonic, etc "representatives"? For someone who demands proof from other's claims - let's see your proof. Let's see an attendance register of a networking gathering with "representatives" of the aforementioned labels listed.

To say if a label doesn't go to a networking convention otherwise they wouldn't be in business is as naive as it is baseless. Take Ad Noiseam for instance - been in business for 10 years, coming up on their 150th release, well respected in dubstep, drum & bass, industrial and noise scenes... run by 1 person. Nic. No marketing teams, no convention-going... just a lot of graft and consistently puts out good music. According to you, they shouldn't even be in business - an anomaly incapable of existing...

[Toric]

you talk about release schedules, promotion stuff, conventions!? wtf.

Your label doesn't have a release schedule? Or a promotion and marketing plan? Doesn't go to the usual networking conventions? Doesn't sound like a label to me at ALL.

Sounds like someone releasing music for a hobby.

Deep Medi has a release schedule. A marketing team. They also have representatives at networking gatherings/conventions. If they didn't, the wouldn't be in business.

Just FYI, a release schedule is REQUIRED by most (if not all) distributors, or they won't distribute your product. This includes Beatport and Juno.

-T

Look - we all get it, you are a young kid who is excited that he has worked a bit in the business and thinks he is in the "know"... you took a marketing class at Uni, worked at some metal label as a marketing intern...and that's great, but you are trying to apply irrelevant generalizations to unrelated situations.

I have worked for bigger companies than you - and yeah, I know what IS possible in the music industry, but that doesn't mean it is possible for mid-sized Dubstep labels/artists. I used to be a classical booking agent where I would secure fees ranging from 10k-50k per gig for most of the solo artists on the roster... and the unknown, up & coming soloists would get 3k-5k. Do you know how ridiculous it would be if I tried to apply that to Dubstep - to say.. "hey, if you are an unknown DJ - you should be demanding at least 3k per gig, otherwise you aren't really a DJ"...

Things are very different in EDM than they are for almost any genre. Sure - even for punk or metal, 10k units of a 7" is a drop in the hat.... but that just isn't the case for electronic music. A lot of notable labels are still run by only 1 or 2 people. Warp has a decent sized staff - and there are a few people working for labels like Ninja Tune, Planet Mu, etc... but to act like most labels (let alone Dubstep-centric labels) have marketing TEAMS?? You are simply regurgitating what your marketing 101 class told you there *should* be in place, not knowing for a fact the way things are. Most of these labels, if they have *anyone* purely for marketing, will have 1 person... or more likely, they farm it out to a publicity firm. But they don't have dedicated Marketing Teams. And as far as going to networking conventions... what conventions have you been going to where you have seen Deep Medi, Hyperdub, Tectonic, etc "representatives"? For someone who demands proof from other's claims - let's see your proof. Let's see an attendance register of a networking gathering with "representatives" of the aforementioned labels listed.

To say if a label doesn't go to a networking convention otherwise they wouldn't be in business is as naive as it is baseless. Take Ad Noiseam for instance - been in business for 10 years, coming up on their 150th release, well respected in dubstep, drum & bass, industrial and noise scenes... run by 1 person. Nic. No marketing teams, no convention-going... just a lot of graft and consistently puts out good music. According to you, they shouldn't even be in business - an anomaly incapable of existing...

I doubt you've worked for bigger companies than me and I refuse to read your post because you decided to insult me at the beginning of it. 90% of the people in this thread are talking out of their ass, and I'm talking out of experience, so IDK who the fuck you are, but you don't know shit.

See? Is that better? now that I just downright insult people without knowing who they are, does everyone believe me?

no?

K.

-T

[wub]

I have worked for bigger companies than you - and yeah, I know what IS possible in the music industry, but that doesn't mean it is possible for mid-sized Dubstep labels/artists. I used to be a classical booking agent where I would secure fees ranging from 10k-50k per gig for most of the solo artists on the roster... and the unknown, up & coming soloists would get 3k-5k. Do you know how ridiculous it would be if I tried to apply that to Dubstep - to say.. "hey, if you are an unknown DJ - you should be demanding at least 3k per gig, otherwise you aren't really a DJ"...

Things are very different in EDM than they are for almost any genre. Sure - even for punk or metal, 10k units of a 7" is a drop in the hat.... but that just isn't the case for electronic music. A lot of notable labels are still run by only 1 or 2 people. Warp has a decent sized staff - and there are a few people working for labels like Ninja Tune, Planet Mu, etc... but to act like most labels (let alone Dubstep-centric labels) have marketing TEAMS?? You are simply regurgitating what your marketing 101 class told you there *should* be in place, not knowing for a fact the way things are. Most of these labels, if they have *anyone* purely for marketing, will have 1 person... or more likely, they farm it out to a publicity firm. But they don't have dedicated Marketing Teams. And as far as going to networking conventions... what conventions have you been going to where you have seen Deep Medi, Hyperdub, Tectonic, etc "representatives"? For someone who demands proof from other's claims - let's see your proof. Let's see an attendance register of a networking gathering with "representatives" of the aforementioned labels listed.

To say if a label doesn't go to a networking convention otherwise they wouldn't be in business is as naive as it is baseless. Take Ad Noiseam for instance - been in business for 10 years, coming up on their 150th release, well respected in dubstep, drum & bass, industrial and noise scenes... run by 1 person. Nic. No marketing teams, no convention-going... just a lot of graft and consistently puts out good music. According to you, they shouldn't even be in business - an anomaly incapable of existing...

Very well said.