Do you believe in God?

[weedlefruit]

For those who are questioning the Big Bang Theory, it is a theory that has been peer reviewed, tested and not-disproved for close to 100 years. That's enough of a dead certainty in my book as anything haha.

people who don't understand the difference between a theory and a hypothesis

Yeah, too many people assume a theory is what people think rather than what has been tried, tested, peer reviewed and faced much criticism on a personal and local level, before seeing global review and being accepted as the way it is until a new, demonstrable concept is put through the same scrutiny. Takes years, decades for something to be a recognised theory.

It's not quite the same as when people say "In theory, this sofa should fit through to whole", although when it comes to religious arguments, it seems to be the argument for God(s) that relies on this misunderstanding.

yeah you say that but there can never be proof of what happened all thoses billions of years ago can there...

your gonna dissagree but idk.

(The man that knows something knows that he knows nothing at all)

Actually, you can prove what happened billions of years ago by looking at how things are now or by looking for evidence of what has happened in the past. It's not really that much different from proving what happened yesterday, a century ago, 10000 years ago, and so on. You just have to work out what clues to look for.

If you change some of the parameters used in various models for the beginning of the universe slightly, the universe would be very different from what we currently see around us. As it is, the inflation model for the big bang actually predicted a result that no one had ever seen before. This was then corroborated a number of years later. Therefore, in this case, reality confirmed the prediction.

Exactly yeah, we know how things were because of how things are now. Theories come unstuck of predictions are made which don't come to fruition.

When newton invented calculus to find out how planets move in eliptical orbit and don't fly off with their momentum, predictions had to made which at first had people laughing, until those predictions were realised.

[unwind]

I feel that this video is necessary to post in any topic regarding God.



Most videos by this guy (philhellenes) are really, really good to watch. Very provocative.

This video in particular really touches me. I urge everyone to watch it (if you haven't already).

people who don't understand the difference between a theory and a hypothesis

Yeah, too many people assume a theory is what people think rather than what has been tried, tested, peer reviewed and faced much criticism on a personal and local level, before seeing global review and being accepted as the way it is until a new, demonstrable concept is put through the same scrutiny. Takes years, decades for something to be a recognised theory.

It's not quite the same as when people say "In theory, this sofa should fit through to whole", although when it comes to religious arguments, it seems to be the argument for God(s) that relies on this misunderstanding.

yeah you say that but there can never be proof of what happened all thoses billions of years ago can there...

your gonna dissagree but idk.

(The man that knows something knows that he knows nothing at all)

Actually, you can prove what happened billions of years ago by looking at how things are now or by looking for evidence of what has happened in the past. It's not really that much different from proving what happened yesterday, a century ago, 10000 years ago, and so on. You just have to work out what clues to look for.

If you change some of the parameters used in various models for the beginning of the universe slightly, the universe would be very different from what we currently see around us. As it is, the inflation model for the big bang actually predicted a result that no one had ever seen before. This was then corroborated a number of years later. Therefore, in this case, reality confirmed the prediction.

Exactly yeah, we know how things were because of how things are now. Theories come unstuck of predictions are made which don't come to fruition.

When newton invented calculus to find out how planets move in eliptical orbit and don't fly off with their momentum, predictions had to made which at first had people laughing, until those predictions were realised.

In most cases really old theories are 'proven' through deduction/trial and error...

Although in some cases it can be just through common error, I forget exactly what/who it was but I read in Bill Bryson's 'A Short History of Nearly Everything' about some fossils that were collected by a famous paleontologist in the late 1800's, and at the time they classed them as a certain species of prehistoric creature but only recently (2007ish) they discovered that the fossil was in fact upside down and the creature actually belonged to a completely different species.

Just goes to show that even the greatest minds can make silly mistakes.

I mean Einstein's theory of relativity is taken for granted but there are still certain things that, if they are discovered (or not discovered) they could still prove his theory wrong, which is partially why i think science is so reliable. I mean when you compare religion to science, Einstein could be regarded as the equivalent of Jesus... The difference is, in religion no-one (religious) would even dare try to prove Jesus wrong, whereas in science there is always a possibility that anyone could be wrong, regardless of their social or intellectual status, and in some cases finding that someone is wrong brings more progress than someone being correct.

[NilsFG]

I think the OP is an alias and made this thread just to cause some ruckus.

[scspkr99]

I don't believe in God, although quite like the poetry of Spinozas God. However, I've always found Spinozas God to just be a needless redefining of the term, a term which in it's basic form is just referring to the indiscriminate and impersonal laws of the universe. That is something you can't not believe in, as the laws of the universe are what we have discovered so far to be the way things are.

In terms of the anthropomorphic personal God concept, I personally don't believe one exists. I'm not against people having the belief and defend the right for people to do so but for me, I've never felt comfortable going on faith as faith to me is not seeing the wood for the tree's. I feel we know too much about biology, geography, sociology, psychology, history etc to be able to go against all of that on faith.

Too much explainable beauty in the world against a very small set of accounts that weren't witnessed first hand.

Those who do believe in God(s), I'd like to find out I guess firstly, which God and why? Have you always believed or was there a particular event, or moment where you started to? (I'm not looking to start debates/arguments/flame wars with this, genuinely want to hear more peoples experiences etc)

I've posted about my beliefs here before but as you seem genuinely interested I'll do my best to explain.

My God is probably closer to Spinoza's and I find the concept of a God that sits in judgement a little silly. I'm also fairly clear that what science can explain belongs to science where there is conflict between the teachings of the church and the teaching of science I am invariably going to give a greater credibility to science. Religious people who adopt the stance, tho not the sentiment, of Canute denying the beauty that science explains do their God a disservice. They fail to acknowledge the beauty inherent in a universe that is tuned exactly right to exist and bring forward our own existence. If gravity is little weaker it fails to hold the universe together a little stronger and the universe fails to gather the momentum required for expansion and so on

There's some merit to your view that God almost becomes an academic instrument of defining the laws of universe but I think it ignores the purpose of that exercise which is to leave scope for a philosophical definition of the universe. Those that would proscribe the way we exercise our faith ignore what faith gets to bring to the table. Faith for me is a part of the process of considering our place in the universe, it gives us a why that goes beyond particular sequence of chemical and physical processes. It gives me a perspective that this universe is meant to be and from there I define my role in it. If this sounds pompous then I'm sorry but it's likely that it's my failure to explain myself properly.

The perspective above frames my morality, this is not to say that my morality is better than someones who doesn't believe. I can accept that there are many ways, not involving faith, that can lead to people being brilliant people just as there are many ways faith can be distorted in getting people to do horrendous stuff. Where you are morally and ethically is way more important to how you got there.

I'll leave to science how we are here I'll give to God why.

[Leave Blank]

I don't believe in God, I know God exists. Without a creator, there is no creation.

[bassbum]

I'm a Christian but I don't believe in creationism, I believe god created evolution.

God for me is very real. One of the big things for me is I feel the spirit of god around me when I'm down or sometimes for no reason, I was just thinking of god or reading the bible or something. For me this is outright proof of his existence.

What get to me is people are quick to say "because this about religion has be proven to be wrong by science I'm not going to believe in it ". This is like me saying "because the Standard Model and quantum mechanics contradict each other I dont believe in physics"

[Immune_system01]

ye!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1rGhPN8-MU

[sonar]

I'm a Christian but I don't believe in creationism, I believe god created evolution.

So if you don't believe in creationism you don't believe in adam and eve and original sin and if so the whole jesus thing is sort of pointless. I can't figure it out, am i missing something?

[bassbum]

I'm a Christian but I don't believe in creationism, I believe god created evolution.

So if you don't believe in creationism you don't believe in adam and eve and original sin and if so the whole jesus thing is sort of pointless. I can't figure it out, am i missing something?

Just because I dont believe in adam and eve dose not mean that I dont believe that some things are wrong and god dose not want you to do them.

Also the whole jesus thing is more than just he died for our sins, its about that he was the son of god and what he preached.

[scspkr99]

So if you don't believe in creationism you don't believe in adam and eve and original sin and if so the whole jesus thing is sort of pointless. I can't figure it out, am i missing something?

lots

[sonar]

I'm a Christian but I don't believe in creationism, I believe god created evolution.

So if you don't believe in creationism you don't believe in adam and eve and original sin and if so the whole jesus thing is sort of pointless. I can't figure it out, am i missing something?

Just because I dont believe in adam and eve dose not mean that I dont believe that some things are wrong and god dose not want you to do them.

Also the whole jesus thing is more than just he died for our sins, its about that he was the son of god and what he preached.

Meh, you've still written off the most important parts of Christian doctrine. I'd just say you're agnostic in future, it will save embaressment.

[Dub_freak]

ye!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1rGhPN8-MU

[Ba-zinga]

i have a feeling this thread isn't going to end well but i'll put in my two cents i suppose: (ignoring everything else going except original question)

i don't believe in a god, i'm actually quite against the idea of religion, even though i don't put that out there much. i follow natural morals of what i deem right or wrong, i feel these are things the human mind figures out itself, there is no external source needed. i know not to kill, that would be against the evolution of my species naturally, i don't need a divine prophecy to tell me that it's wrong. so i pretty much just go with the flow, to each their own. i follow a good moral code not because i will get rewarded with an afterlife or someone said I should, i follow a good moral code SIMPLY BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. and if that gets me in hell, then at least i'll have good company

[kay]

I don't believe in God, although quite like the poetry of Spinozas God. However, I've always found Spinozas God to just be a needless redefining of the term, a term which in it's basic form is just referring to the indiscriminate and impersonal laws of the universe. That is something you can't not believe in, as the laws of the universe are what we have discovered so far to be the way things are.

In terms of the anthropomorphic personal God concept, I personally don't believe one exists. I'm not against people having the belief and defend the right for people to do so but for me, I've never felt comfortable going on faith as faith to me is not seeing the wood for the tree's. I feel we know too much about biology, geography, sociology, psychology, history etc to be able to go against all of that on faith.

Too much explainable beauty in the world against a very small set of accounts that weren't witnessed first hand.

Those who do believe in God(s), I'd like to find out I guess firstly, which God and why? Have you always believed or was there a particular event, or moment where you started to? (I'm not looking to start debates/arguments/flame wars with this, genuinely want to hear more peoples experiences etc)

I've posted about my beliefs here before but as you seem genuinely interested I'll do my best to explain.

My God is probably closer to Spinoza's and I find the concept of a God that sits in judgement a little silly. I'm also fairly clear that what science can explain belongs to science where there is conflict between the teachings of the church and the teaching of science I am invariably going to give a greater credibility to science. Religious people who adopt the stance, tho not the sentiment, of Canute denying the beauty that science explains do their God a disservice. They fail to acknowledge the beauty inherent in a universe that is tuned exactly right to exist and bring forward our own existence. If gravity is little weaker it fails to hold the universe together a little stronger and the universe fails to gather the momentum required for expansion and so on

There's some merit to your view that God almost becomes an academic instrument of defining the laws of universe but I think it ignores the purpose of that exercise which is to leave scope for a philosophical definition of the universe. Those that would proscribe the way we exercise our faith ignore what faith gets to bring to the table. Faith for me is a part of the process of considering our place in the universe, it gives us a why that goes beyond particular sequence of chemical and physical processes. It gives me a perspective that this universe is meant to be and from there I define my role in it. If this sounds pompous then I'm sorry but it's likely that it's my failure to explain myself properly.

The perspective above frames my morality, this is not to say that my morality is better than someones who doesn't believe. I can accept that there are many ways, not involving faith, that can lead to people being brilliant people just as there are many ways faith can be distorted in getting people to do horrendous stuff. Where you are morally and ethically is way more important to how you got there.

I'll leave to science how we are here I'll give to God why.

Well thought out and considerate answer

[Sexual_Chocolate]

ye!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1rGhPN8-MU

"you should see what allah said about the origin of everything....he split it, he didnt just blow it up.... by the way we're the muslims, we're experts on blowing stuff up!"

GENUINE FUCKING LOL

[scspkr99]

Meh, you've still written off the most important parts of Christian doctrine. I'd just say you're agnostic in future, it will save embaressment.

if you're going to use terms like agnostic try and know what they mean it may save you the embarrassment

Thing is no one gets to dictate your beliefs to you you don't get to proscribe to someone who wishes to call themselves a Christian what their beliefs should be. There isn't a single world view of Christianity, key concepts such as transfiguration are hotly disputed. A person who calls themselves a Christian can do so without adhering to a seemingly dismissive interpretation such as your own.

[cityzen]

i follow a good moral code SIMPLY BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

This isn't necessarily directed at Ba-zinga, but who says it's the right thing to do? 'Right' by what standards?

[pikeymobile]

worst snh thread this year

[Ba-zinga]

i follow a good moral code SIMPLY BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

This isn't necessarily directed at Ba-zinga, but who says it's the right thing to do? 'Right' by what standards?

good question

no one says it's the right thing to do. i just find it basic to not be intolerant, hateful, or murder someone, but who's to say these values weren't instilled in me subconsciously by a religious society? (i think that's the point you're trying to get at?) i believe that humans are naturally born good, with the best intentions for themselves and their species.

EDIT: the reason i hate most organized religion is because of this topic actually...muslim and christian religions breed intolerance and hate for others that don't believe in the same they do

[Immune_system01]

ye!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1rGhPN8-MU

not feelin the vid?