Reason 7

[mr echo]

Okay, here's an example. WOW filter. I've heard a bunch of people on this forum say they've tried using it... but do they actually know how it works? I could create something similar in Reason using an automated EQ or a couple bandpass filters (I'm ignoring the formant filter on Thor for this example) and save it as a combinator, creating my own "VST" so to speak. At least 50% of the people on this forum would go ahead and slap a wow filter on something knowing what it does to the sound, but not how or why.

I'm a bit confused. The WOW filter is a filter. It is very simple to use and understand. It has no 'sound good' features. The good thing about it is it is simple and easy to use. This is good only where workflow is concerned. But that is the point of the WOW filter. If you want to filter a sound and/or automate the cutoff, then the WOW filter is the place to go. I do think it has a feature along the lines of certain vowel sounds as the cutoff opens if that is your cup of tea. But I have only used this once when I first got the VST just as a test.

So basically, if you want simple filtering then the WOW filter is good. It is basically the same as Waves 'One Knob Filter', or Sonalksis 'Creative Filter'. These are all pretty much the same thing. They give a nice, clear and simple way to filter a sound with some basic automation. Simple tools for simple tasks. If I want more control over a filter I will go to SoundToys 'FilterFreak'. This has way more capabilities and control. I think Fabfilter have a very complex one too.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here is that you said that loads of people use the WOW filter but do not know what it does to the sound. So basically what you are saying is that all these people don't know what a filter is. I don't think I agree here. Within one day of starting to produce music I knew what a filter was. I'm sure it is the same for nearly everyone. It is one of the most important tools in the game.

I see what you are saying about being able to recreate the effects using EQ. A filter IS an EQ. You can do more with a dedicated EQ tool of course, but it is much easier to do this with a filter - if that is right for the job. It is just a workflow issue.

Just one problem I have with the WOW filter though. It affects the sounds as soon as it is opened - with the cutoff fully open. As far as I am aware this should not be the case. Which is why I now use Sonalksis 'Creative Filter' more now.

[MoonUnit]

Okay, here's an example. WOW filter. I've heard a bunch of people on this forum say they've tried using it... but do they actually know how it works? I could create something similar in Reason using an automated EQ or a couple bandpass filters (I'm ignoring the formant filter on Thor for this example) and save it as a combinator, creating my own "VST" so to speak. At least 50% of the people on this forum would go ahead and slap a wow filter on something knowing what it does to the sound, but not how or why.

I'm a bit confused. The WOW filter is a filter. It is very simple to use and understand. It has no 'sound good' features. The good thing about it is it is simple and easy to use. This is good only where workflow is concerned. But that is the point of the WOW filter. If you want to filter a sound and/or automate the cutoff, then the WOW filter is the place to go. I do think it has a feature along the lines of certain vowel sounds as the cutoff opens if that is your cup of tea. But I have only used this once when I first got the VST just as a test.

So basically, if you want simple filtering then the WOW filter is good. It is basically the same as Waves 'One Knob Filter', or Sonalksis 'Creative Filter'. These are all pretty much the same thing. They give a nice, clear and simple way to filter a sound with some basic automation. Simple tools for simple tasks. If I want more control over a filter I will go to SoundToys 'FilterFreak'. This has way more capabilities and control. I think Fabfilter have a very complex one too.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here is that you said that loads of people use the WOW filter but do not know what it does to the sound. So basically what you are saying is that all these people don't know what a filter is. I don't think I agree here. Within one day of starting to produce music I knew what a filter was. I'm sure it is the same for nearly everyone. It is one of the most important tools in the game.

I see what you are saying about being able to recreate the effects using EQ. A filter IS an EQ. You can do more with a dedicated EQ tool of course, but it is much easier to do this with a filter - if that is right for the job. It is just a workflow issue.

Just one problem I have with the WOW filter though. It affects the sounds as soon as it is opened - with the cutoff fully open. As far as I am aware this should not be the case. Which is why I now use Sonalksis 'Creative Filter' more now.

I was getting at the formant uses of WOW filter. I never said WOW had sound good features, but I have definitely seen people trying to use it for "talking basses" or what have you. If you didn't like how WOW sounded, you could make your own formant-y filter that suits your needs and sounds based on the concept of how WOW works. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can avoid pigeon-holing yourself if you know exactly what is going on behind the curtain.

[MoonUnit]

You're missing the point. You said they should know how are why something affects their sounds, even if they know what it does to the sound itself, and i'm saying that's pointless if you're just out to make good music, since knowing what it does to the sound is all you should know then.

another example off the top of my head: If you slap a reverb on something and start adjusting parameters, like diffusion, yes, you can make the inference from adjusting that it makes the reverb sound more dispersed.

Say you're trying to emulate a specific space. If there many objects in the room you are trying to emulate, how would you know to increase diffusion to simulate the large amount of objects in the room to reach desired sound (unless you truly knew what diffusion meant and how it was caused, in terms of reverberation)?

Then, how will this introduced diffusion interact with the rest of your mix? If you know all these sorts of things you won't spend too much time fiddle-farting around with algorithms and parameters and you will know the right reverb to use circumstantially and right adjustments to make EVERY TIME.

EDIT: because I take the time to understand the how and why of equipment, if I get presented with a new piece of equipment/plug-in I can start to understand what I can do with it without having touched it yet. Maybe you've reached that point through years of experimentation/trial/error, but I'm saying it doesn't have to be that way.

[mr echo]

Okay, here's an example. WOW filter. I've heard a bunch of people on this forum say they've tried using it... but do they actually know how it works? I could create something similar in Reason using an automated EQ or a couple bandpass filters (I'm ignoring the formant filter on Thor for this example) and save it as a combinator, creating my own "VST" so to speak. At least 50% of the people on this forum would go ahead and slap a wow filter on something knowing what it does to the sound, but not how or why.

I'm a bit confused. The WOW filter is a filter. It is very simple to use and understand. It has no 'sound good' features. The good thing about it is it is simple and easy to use. This is good only where workflow is concerned. But that is the point of the WOW filter. If you want to filter a sound and/or automate the cutoff, then the WOW filter is the place to go. I do think it has a feature along the lines of certain vowel sounds as the cutoff opens if that is your cup of tea. But I have only used this once when I first got the VST just as a test.

So basically, if you want simple filtering then the WOW filter is good. It is basically the same as Waves 'One Knob Filter', or Sonalksis 'Creative Filter'. These are all pretty much the same thing. They give a nice, clear and simple way to filter a sound with some basic automation. Simple tools for simple tasks. If I want more control over a filter I will go to SoundToys 'FilterFreak'. This has way more capabilities and control. I think Fabfilter have a very complex one too.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here is that you said that loads of people use the WOW filter but do not know what it does to the sound. So basically what you are saying is that all these people don't know what a filter is. I don't think I agree here. Within one day of starting to produce music I knew what a filter was. I'm sure it is the same for nearly everyone. It is one of the most important tools in the game.

I see what you are saying about being able to recreate the effects using EQ. A filter IS an EQ. You can do more with a dedicated EQ tool of course, but it is much easier to do this with a filter - if that is right for the job. It is just a workflow issue.

Just one problem I have with the WOW filter though. It affects the sounds as soon as it is opened - with the cutoff fully open. As far as I am aware this should not be the case. Which is why I now use Sonalksis 'Creative Filter' more now.

I was getting at the formant uses of WOW filter. I never said WOW had sound good features, but I have definitely seen people trying to use it for "talking basses" or what have you. If you didn't like how WOW sounded, you could make your own formant-y filter that suits your needs and sounds based on the concept of how WOW works. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can avoid pigeon-holing yourself if you know exactly what is going on behind the curtain.

I understand what you are saying, but just don't think it is practical workflow wise. I wasn't saying that you said it has sound good features. What I was saying is that there is no point going around the back alley route to get what is ultimately the same outcome as slapping a filter onto it. Like I said, a filter is in effect an eq. It is designed mainly as a quick and easy way of to eq a sound in a certain way. Why not just go about it the quickest and easiest way regardless of whether you understand it or not?

[MoonUnit]

because you might not like how a stock filter sounds for what you are trying to accomplish.
because not everyone is made out of money and can buy additional plug-ins or relies on pirated software.
because you can make something tailor-fit to your needs that suits a similar/same purpose.
because quickest and easiest way is not necessarily the best way.

I'm not trying to force anyone to try and understand audio engineering/synthesis technicalities I'm trying to make a point that it can be incredibly helpful; more so than just basing your knowledge and signal flow off of what you learn from what you hear. There is only so much you can learn from hearing. If you don't open your mind up to the technicalities you are keeping doors shut that may lead to more sounds to learn from.

[mr echo]

because you might not like how a stock filter sounds for what you are trying to accomplish.
because not everyone is made out of money and can buy additional plug-ins or relies on pirated software.
because you can make something tailor-fit to your needs that suits a similar/same purpose.
because quickest and easiest way is not necessarily the best way.

I'm not trying to force anyone to try and understand audio engineering/synthesis technicalities I'm trying to make a point that it can be incredibly helpful; more so than just basing your knowledge and signal flow off of what you learn from what you hear. There is only so much you can learn from hearing. If you don't open your mind up to the technicalities you are keeping doors shut that may lead to more sounds to learn from.

These are all very good reasons to understand the tools you are using. But all I am saying is that having something that can achieve the simple results you are looking for is not a bad thing. It doesn't make sense to do something the long way round unless you have very specific reasons for doing so (eg, what you said). The only point I was making is that in many cases a filter is all that is needed. Also that the majority of people making music will more than likely know what a filter is, what it does and how it works.

[ItsSofaKing]

Reason isn't immune to being torrented. I'm not an expert tho so don't quote me on that. The folks at Propellorhead always add some shit that personally I think is just bells and whistles for the most part. Rack extensions for example, I never used one but it looks like some shit i don't care about. They finally got something right by giving us a mixer with some damn numbers for the DB. They're kind of slacking by not making it so you can use vsts without having to rewire but thats a slight inconvenience. I love Reason tho and I would pick it over any other DAW. It forced me to learn things instead of just trying to find this awesome vst to do shit for me. But to each his own, some people like coke nd some like pepsi. It's all the same shit at the end of the day.

[ehbes]

no sir you are wrong. NO ONE like pepsi more than coke

[ItsSofaKing]

Pepsi is shit compared to coke imo. But every so often I'll hear someone complain that they can't get a pepsi at a restaurant. I would give the place props for not letting a mediocre cola in their business. Some people don't make sense

[Ledger]

My only problem with Reason 7 that I'm seeing, is you either have to buy 6.5 or some other Reason product after March 1st, or buy Balance to get Reason 7 for free. People that bought Reason in the past should get it for free, not people just arriving. Otherwise, it's $129 for the upgrade. Honestly, I call bullshit.

[beat]

hi, im new here as you can see.
interesting forum!
about reason as i experience it,
i use it since 1.0, up till 09 i did a great deal of live acts solo or with other musicians, reason being my trigger instrument (wx5, midikey, ajustable keycomand) and sequencer of corse, but i also was/am the equipment guy, bandmixdesk, hammerfall, mics etc.
so i had to get another daw to rewire, live in my case, at home i used many of the cm plugs (vsts), but never live on stage, at least not after a shamfull crash.....
reason has not let me down in all this years, not once!! i loved the free update around 3.0... i guess,
when record came along i was in heaven!
updating to 6.0 was to our own guess, money wise.
and, not cos im rich, but for thinking that they do a great job i payed the usual update rate.

reason started as a electronic musician tool only, close to rebirth as they where, but soon it atracted people in other musical fields and mischmasher like myself......if you take a look at the props advertisement, you can clearly see that they are doing a lot to get more band people on the wagon....
i can anderstand the point of view of one daw buyers that it is a hard desicion, but good vsts ar not free as well...
as a sol electro musician/producer starting today, i dont know what id choos as a daw, there are so many great things out there and the apps getting better and better by the month.......?
you know, ive had it with schleppen!!
i guess im with the folks who know, the tool you love is the best for your workflow, inspiration and coffeemashine -ö-

and a great forum is where one can have a laugh, dispute and learn from others expeience

beat

Edit: ...and this year, im not gonna update the usual way, i just got me the 'Antidote' and for my ipad love to ip6 the 'Polisix' rack-exs. about the same amount of € that id spend for an update!