£1000 fine for not registering to vote

[nowaysj]

I don't know if you've read my post. Grassroots organizations go one of two ways, co-opted and diverted, or infiltrated and collapsed. Tea party as an example of the former, Occupy as the latter.

Perhaps there was a time when these types of organizations could have been effective, but the control mechanisms are too advanced, they know how to deal with this threat, thus rendering it a non-threat.

Writing in to your representatives... I've done a lot of writing in the last year, just so I can say I that I did it, but there is no indication that mass letter writing is having any kind of effect. And why would it? The stakes are very high now.

[mks]

I've read your post and it breaks my heart that people don't believe there is any possibility of change. I wish that people would at least try to make some sort of effort because if not, then I don't know anymore. Maybe they are all consigned to the way things are.

[nowaysj]

Well, now I'm certain that you didn't read my post.

Because, I do believe there is a nonviolent path forward.

The other nonviolent forms I really REALLY don't believe to be effective anymore. They have proven to be ineffective, not for any intrinsic flaw, but because of external forces acting on them. Grassroots populist movements are dead. The level of infiltration is insane. I don't know how knowledgeable you are about the tea party, but from what I understand its core concerns are more than similar to occupy's concerns, the redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the super-elites. The tea party rightly focused on the constitution, as the constitution was first bypassed to allow these political travesties, and they saw a restoration of constitutional authority as a means to rectify the injustices. But look what they became... they were foxified. They were turned into a party that sought only to end social welfare programs... completely antithetical to their original aims. See, they built a grass roots organization, and then it was taken away and used as a cudgel to further beat down the middle class AND the constitution.

Occupy, they had less weight, so they were just dismantled from within. Governmental and private infiltrators gained access to occupy groups and just tore them apart, in many ways, but it is easy to do with consensus based groups.

I no longer believe grassroots movements can be effective against a very prepared enemy.

But I do believe a boycott of the entire system has the potential to cripple it. I believe we could get some constitutional amendments out of it, a modification of the 14th, that limited liability corporations are not citizens and do not have the natural rights as citizens (as a start) as well as campaign finance reform, which would prevent corporate/financial organizations form outright dictating the selection of candidates. Could set up term limits. Could close loop holes that allow corps that very heavily draw upon our common natural bounty to produce huge profits, and yet pay no taxes, and even beyond, receive credits. Could remove tax incentives for corps to outsource.

on and on. But you get me? We could fix this system. I believe in this country and this constitution, and I do believe they can be restored to a functional state, and I think we would be in an incredible position to confront the challenges of this quickly evolving century that may be the most pivotal 100 years of human development.

[Laszlo]

Perhaps there was a time when these types of organizations could have been effective, but the control mechanisms are too advanced, they know how to deal with this threat, thus rendering it a non-threat.

Just popping in to QFT.

Sorry, mks.

[m8son666]

alright, so none of the parties appeal to you.

are you going to do anything to change it?

nah blud

night in, xfactor b2b curry init

i expected better of u garethom )-:

LOL what are you doing to change that?

[nowaysj]

He's tryin to get garet to do something. Change by proxy. It is the managerial class, blood.

[garethom]

Before somebody acts like I'm some moody teenager crusty by not voting, but I can't vote for any party out there. Next time will be the first I haven't voted in general or local elections. I can't back any of them. I don't wan't ANY of the current parties in power, not the big 3, the next tier or the protest vote parties. None of them speak to me, nor do I feel like I can trust them. If I vote for one of them, that's one person saying "I agree with you". I don't. So I won't. I don't want any part in electing a party I don't want in power. That's all. If a party gets in to power that I don't back, then I don't want to have played a part in it. This is the best, and really only step you can take if there isn't a single party that represents your interests. If you wanna vote for the "lesser of two evils", then do it don't be surprised if you don't like what you ended up with, knowing you voted them in.

inb4 endless disagreements b2b hippy b2b veterans died for ur right to vote b2b tory scum b2b lefty liberal b2b ukip's biggest fan

alright, so none of the parties appeal to you.

are you going to do anything to change it?

nah blud

night in, xfactor b2b curry init

i expected better of u garethom )-:

No, I'm not. I'm too comfortable to be honest. I have a good job on a more than decent wage, my girlfriend does too, we can afford a house in a decent affordable area. My parents both have comfortable jobs. I can't be arsed, but at least I don't act like I can and do nothing like I'm guessing the majority of bods on here do.

So fuck off.

[bennyfroobs]

In this day and age, how can people affect political change? Anytime a party is formed that represents the will of the people, it is co-opted. See the tea party in the US. If you can't be co-opted, you'll be infiltrated and destroyed from within, see Occupy.
[...]
The protests are censored by the media, either outright or through extreme misrepresentation.
[...]
Or the military would be called up, and anybody not going to work would then be given the opportunity to work for a dollar a day.

i think peaceful protests would be more likely to work in the UK though, than the usa. mainly because our country is considerably less '1984' although after the miners strikes im not so sure :/ fucking thatcher *shakes fist*.

tbh tho jose with your country, i think the result of mass disobedience is much mroe likely to be the military one haha. its already got 'work camps' (aka gulags) being built. it would just turn into russia. i doubt the leaders of america have any qualms with doing that

LOL what are you doing to change that?

i didn't say that none of the parties appeal to me m808son, did i? i think the system is flawed but im realistic about my situation, so i think the best option for me is to vote for people who might be knobs but arent completely evil. im not just gonna sit on my arse. if there was a protest / organisation i agreed with then id make the effort to help out in a way that i could. i dont have the skills to organise anything like that though. id go join a political party if i had any knowledge of politics and didnt have the intelligence of a wet sponge

I can't be arsed

well if u cant be aresd to do anything to make a difference then why dont u just bite the bullet and vote for someone who wont absolutely destroy the country (quite so much) like the current lot of morons are doing? protetsing by being indifferent and apathetic isnt helping anyone imo

[bennyfroobs]

also theres no need to swear haha

[garethom]

I can't be arsed

well if u cant be aresd to do anything to make a difference then why dont u just bite the bullet and vote for someone who wont absolutely destroy the country (quite so much) like the current lot of morons are doing? protetsing by being indifferent and apathetic isnt helping anyone imo

Because I don't trust any of them to do that. I don't like the current government. I don't think Labour will do any better. I don't think any of the other parties would either. So that's why. Do you not get it? I don't like them, but I could probably get along just fine under any party really, hence I'm comfortable. I don't want to protest, because I'm not that bothered. I just don't want to back any of them either.

Look, do what you want, just don't go on at people on a forum because they don't want to vote for whoever you want to vote for. If you want to protest, protest to your hearts content, just remember a whole group of people out there are basically as happy either way. People might have a casual moan down the pub and that, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're so bothered they wanna do anything. Most people wouldn't have the time either way.

I told you to fuck off because constant moralising about voting from people who PROBABLY haven't done shit all gets on my nerves.

[bennyfroobs]

what about people having to rely on food backs, who have lost their jobs, disabled people forced to do demeaning trials to keep their benefits, people forced into free labour because its impossible to get a job, the increasing privitasation nhs???? i dont know if youve got friends or family who have been affected by these things, but i have

its great that youre comfortable though, it really is. theres a reason people like me go on like this when people 'cant be arsed'.....

i dont buy this "theyre all the same" schpiel, theyre clearly not... the only time the tories did any good was during ww2, and as soon as the war was over everyone sacked them off cos they were crap. if the next lot of people who get in arent conservatives, are just as tyrannous i'll gladly eat my words.

[Laszlo]

if the next lot of people who get in arent conservatives, are just as tyrannous i'll gladly eat my words.

Thatcher/Major
Blair/Brown
Cameron/Nick Clegg

All have been awful. The erosion of civil liberties by the last government, a Labour government, was tremendous.

[bennyfroobs]

thatcher/major were both tyrannous conservatives? yes they were awful

brown wasnt that bad man. tony was a gimp though

nick clegg is total worm

[scspkr99]

Blair went to war on a lie.

[Laszlo]

tony was a gimp though

Blair oversaw the continuation of Thatcherism under a red banner instead of blue. 'Gimp' is a slight understatement.

[garethom]

what about people having to rely on food backs, who have lost their jobs, disabled people forced to do demeaning trials to keep their benefits, people forced into free labour because its impossible to get a job, the increasing privitasation nhs???? i dont know if youve got friends or family who have been affected by these things, but i have

its great that youre comfortable though, it really is. theres a reason people like me go on like this when people 'cant be arsed'.....

i dont buy this "theyre all the same" schpiel, theyre clearly not... the only time the tories did any good was during ww2, and as soon as the war was over everyone sacked them off cos they were crap. if the next lot of people who get in arent conservatives, are just as tyrannous i'll gladly eat my words.

I know, it's sad for them. Do I have the time or really, the want, to get off my arse and march with the others in the street. No. That's just life. I'm not gonna bullshit you, I just couldn't be arsed. Dunno what you want me to say.

I'm not saying they're all the same, I just don't trust/want any of them. Stop trying to reduce shit down to fit your notion of people that don't wanna vote.

[garethom]

thatcher/major were both tyrannous conservatives? yes they were awful

brown wasnt that bad man. tony was a gimp though

nick clegg is total worm

Also, I get the conservative/lib dem coalition is rightly criticised on here, but the length people go to whitewash labour's recent history is jokes.

[bennyfroobs]

aye they were war mongering arseholes. and tehy upped university fees and costed me more money, the little fuckers. glad i went to uni when i did and im not of these people who are having to pay like £9000 per year.

i think gimp is a good word though laszo, he was basically just the bush administration's british gimp

I'm not gonna bullshit you, I just couldn't be arsed. Dunno what you want me to say.

lol well i appreciate the honesty m8 hahah

[Laszlo]

'Gimp' implies the inability to fuck, but fuck he most certainly did.

[nowaysj]

lol the bush admin's puppet. No, he was a puppet of the same thing bush and co were puppets to. It doesn't matter the party, the agenda is the same. Here, a republican is indistinguishable from a democrat, there a Tory is the same as Labour. These party distinctions are jokes, sick jokes that have successfully controlled these nations for years. It is embarrassing seeing someone getting wound up about the other party. Get played, motherfucker.