Are you rasta or do we all just front its vibe?

[jim]

let's face it, none of these books are telling anyone to hurt anyone else.

The bible says that gays should be put to death. And that's just for starters.

Maybe by the translation you're reading...

Doesnt sound very christian to me...

Try reading the bible. All translations.

[parson]

the old testament is not a christian book

christians have adopted a revised version of it and tacked on their own doctrine to it that completely contradicts a lot of things said in the old testament.

[echo wanderer]

the old testament is not a christian book

christians have adopted a revised version of it and tacked on their own doctrine to it that completely contradicts a lot of things said in the old testament.

Correct.

And what's really funny is that Christians abhor the Mormons for The book Of Mormon,which is basically(to the Mormons),the Third Testament.

The Old Testament is basically the Torah condensed.The first printed Bible containing both wasn't made until the 15th century.Before that,it was passed down through generations of spoken word.Have you ever played that kids game called "telephone",just to see how misinterpreted it gets to the end?Well,there are many interpretations of the bible.When the Old Testament was first being written by man,it was only bits and pieces,not an entire book.It took almost a century after Rome fell for scholars and churches to sit down and agree what would go into the bilbe before it could be "properly" translated into latin.

There are a lot of ancient chidren's stories that mirror the stories in the bible as well.There is controversy that even Aesop's Fables,which were written c.600 BC,had a huge impact on the translation of the New Testament as the fables were basically moral lessons that are all the same lessons in the bible.

For example:
The boy who cried wolf was about lying.The one about the dog who drops his bone in the water because he saw another dog(himself) and wanted his bone too is about greed and gambling.The goose that laid the gold eggs is about greed and knee-jerk reaction.All these tales had morals that were basic in human existence long before the bible.Even Aesop's fables were printed before the bible!!Go figure!

[slothrop]

You don't have to look very hard to see Jamaican / dub / reggae influence in dubstep - it's even there in the structure of the scene (albeit via jungle) with the soundsystems and dubplates. And it's there in the sounds, in the samples, in the bass and in the vibe. But I'm not sure how much use it is to reduce dance music to "dub >>>> jungle >>>> dubstep", when you can follow other lines back and get to Derrick May listening to Gary Numan and Italo disco or to James Brown or Kraftwerk, or back to a lot of individual or collective moments of genius along the way. Sure Jamaica played a pivotal role in the genesis of dubstep, but so did London, Detroit, New York (hey, lets not forget where all that garage came from too), then subtler contributions from Sheffield, Leeds, Antwerp. Imo it's this sort of interconnection and mutation and recombination that's kept dance music so fresh for so long, even while individual scenes have died out, dried up or gone stale.

On the original topic, I think there are a lot of valid reasons that a dubstep producer might use a rasta vocal without being rasta themself. You can admire the militancy and righteousness of rasta, the energy of it, or you could be linking yourself back to roots and dub or ragga by referencing their vocal style rather than the lyrical content. It's like people sampling holyroller preachers, not because they're baptists themselves but because they want to capture the vibe of communal ecstacy and uplift. I wouldn't call that fronting.

[thesynthesist]

the old testament is not a christian book

christians have adopted a revised version of it and tacked on their own doctrine to it that completely contradicts a lot of things said in the old testament.

'

Take that, JIM!

[jim]

Yeah, no irony in "the old testament is not a christian book ... christians have adopted a revised version" (how much more christian could a book be than a book revised by christians?)

[jim]

The ten commandments are also in the old testament but I suppose we can strike them out of christian belief too now.

[echo wanderer]

You don't have to look very hard to see Jamaican / dub / reggae influence in dubstep - it's even there in the structure of the scene (albeit via jungle) with the soundsystems and dubplates. And it's there in the sounds, in the samples, in the bass and in the vibe. But I'm not sure how much use it is to reduce dance music to "dub >>>> jungle >>>> dubstep", when you can follow other lines back and get to Derrick May listening to Gary Numan and Italo disco or to James Brown or Kraftwerk, or back to a lot of individual or collective moments of genius along the way. Sure Jamaica played a pivotal role in the genesis of dubstep, but so did London, Detroit, New York (hey, lets not forget where all that garage came from too), then subtler contributions from Sheffield, Leeds, Antwerp. Imo it's this sort of interconnection and mutation and recombination that's kept dance music so fresh for so long, even while individual scenes have died out, dried up or gone stale.

Dude...have you read anything I've said in this thread?

[slothrop]

Dude...have you read anything I've said in this thread?

Erm, yeah. I didn't respond to a particular post, but I was reading your stuff, and I think you're spot on picking out the JA influences, comments like

The concept of Hiphop comes from Jamaican soundsystems essentially and was started by a Jamaican.Look up Kool Herc and you'll see what I mean.Though the funk sound integration and the term were coined in New York,that doesn't change the fact that it was a Jamaican who invented the break

seem to play down the importance of Motown, James Brown, Kraftwerk and the raw genius of the pioneering DJ's and MC's. It'd be hard to say that Afrika Bambaataa, Melle Mel, Grandmaster Flash, Grand Wizard Theodore and so on were just a bunch of chancers getting big on repackaging Jamaican ideas. I'm sure that's not what you're saying, but it's what the above quote sounds like.

[showguns]

the old testament is not a christian book

christians have adopted a revised version of it and tacked on their own doctrine to it that completely contradicts a lot of things said in the old testament.

Correct.

And what's really funny is that Christians abhor the Mormons for The book Of Mormon,which is basically(to the Mormons),the Third Testament.

The Old Testament is basically the Torah condensed.The first printed Bible containing both wasn't made until the 15th century.Before that,it was passed down through generations of spoken word.Have you ever played that kids game called "telephone",just to see how misinterpreted it gets to the end?Well,there are many interpretations of the bible.When the Old Testament was first being written by man,it was only bits and pieces,not an entire book.It took almost a century after Rome fell for scholars and churches to sit down and agree what would go into the bilbe before it could be "properly" translated into latin.

There are a lot of ancient chidren's stories that mirror the stories in the bible as well.There is controversy that even Aesop's Fables,which were written c.600 BC,had a huge impact on the translation of the New Testament as the fables were basically moral lessons that are all the same lessons in the bible.

For example:
The boy who cried wolf was about lying.The one about the dog who drops his bone in the water because he saw another dog(himself) and wanted his bone too is about greed and gambling.The goose that laid the gold eggs is about greed and knee-jerk reaction.All these tales had morals that were basic in human existence long before the bible.Even Aesop's fables were printed before the bible!!Go figure!

the book of mormon is kinda stretching it though. that book is amost entirely inspired fiction. there is no basis in history for any of those writings at all. though loose, the torah and bible have some basis in history in greek, roman, hebrew and other semitic translations.

[showguns]

edit: double post

[parson]

actually the torah is only the first five books

[parson]

jews, muslims and christians all accept the torah

[echo wanderer]

Dude...have you read anything I've said in this thread?

Erm, yeah. I didn't respond to a particular post, but I was reading your stuff, and I think you're spot on picking out the JA influences, comments like

The concept of Hiphop comes from Jamaican soundsystems essentially and was started by a Jamaican.Look up Kool Herc and you'll see what I mean.Though the funk sound integration and the term were coined in New York,that doesn't change the fact that it was a Jamaican who invented the break

seem to play down the importance of Motown, James Brown, Kraftwerk and the raw genius of the pioneering DJ's and MC's. It'd be hard to say that Afrika Bambaataa, Melle Mel, Grandmaster Flash, Grand Wizard Theodore and so on were just a bunch of chancers getting big on repackaging Jamaican ideas. I'm sure that's not what you're saying, but it's what the above quote sounds like.

I also wrote:

dubstep-->dub--> form of reggae-->reggage -.> form of music with jamaican origin.

Um...Reggae comes from Rocksteady,which came out of Ska,which was basically Jamaican Motown,which is from Detroit,Michigan,USA.The guitar sound was the main diferential there.It wasn't until later that The Rastafarian element brought into Rocksteady(a slower version of Ska essentially) through the addition of African rythyms and percussion(if you don't know about Burra,get to know).

And...

the heritage runs as deep as the influences

Yup.

I always found it sad that so many Americans accredt Elvis with the birth of Rock'n'Roll,though even Elvis knew different.It seems in the UK it has always been considered a African-American Boogie Woogie/Jump Blues thing(ie.:Yardbirds,John Mayall's Bluesbreakers),not a white American sound.Sam Phillips only got Elvis because he loved the sound of the Blues - and so did Elvis - but couldn't sell it to the American people,due to the racial climate of the time.And Blues in itself goes back to slavery-era Gospel,which goes back to African spirituals.

.

I know there are a lot of other things that go into it,but Kraftwerk was barely even a krautrock band when dub emerged,and they certainly weren't what people think Kraftwerk was the mid '70s( the first albums were guitar/bass/drum based if you don't know).Afrika Bambatta,Mann Parish,and Mantronix would probably tell you themselves that dub was a major influence.As for James Brown,he was in a whole other category.But Kool Herc was the first for hiphop.James Brown,P-Funk,etc. provided the musical inspiration,but it was Herc who created the break from that music back in 1970.

Here's a great interview from about '89.I suggest everyone read it:

http://www.daveyd.com/interviewkoolherc89.html


Afrika Bambatta,The GW,and Flash were waaaay later:

By 1977, inspired by DJ Kool Herc and after getting his first equipment loaned to him from Disco King Mario, Bambaataa had begun organizing block parties all around the South Bronx. He even faced his mentor, Disco King Mario in a DJ battle.

I excluded them not because of lack of importance(JB is one of my biggest influences ever),but because it lacked relevance to what I responding to: the idea that UKG had nothing to do with dub and that the dub in dubstep came from UKG intrumentals.So I mentioned dub technique and how it relates.I could have mentioned the lates 70s/early 80s Sheffield scene(ie:Throbbing Gristle/Genesis P.Orridge/Chris & Cosey,Future/Human League,Clock DVA,Cabaret Voltaire[who were very dub influenced],etc).Industrial is another sound I could go off about.And I could get beyond balls deep on dub's impact on Factory and Creation bands and thier influence on later dub styles.

And when I said:

Dude...have you read anything I've said in this thread?

I was simply agreeing with you.I seriously wasn't sure if you had read the previous posts or just jumped in on a whim.Thus the at the end.

A side note on Kraftwerk,they are actually considered a progressive rock band.Full length concept albums with instruments replaced by Moogs essentially.Reggae and dub had more of an impact on the German electronic scene than Kraftwerk,contrary to popular belief.Germany boasts one of the strongest Reggae/Dub scenes outside of Jamaica.

[FSTZ]

[echo wanderer]

jews, muslims and christians all accept the torah

Yeah.And they all worship the same god:The God of Abraham.Yet they all fight over who's god is the one true god....

[echo wanderer]

Check out Ms.Cleo's Myspace!


Notice her comments are pretty much all spam!!Macy's strikes again!

And I found this on an image search:



I couldn't resist making this after seeing that...

[feasible_weasel]

i love this thread

[parson]

MISS CLEO CELEBRITY PRANK CALLS
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[echo wanderer]

MISS CLEO CELEBRITY PRANK CALLS
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BWAHAHAHAAAHAAHAHAHA!!!