Pitchfork this month featuring...

[foundational]

That would be the new breed of (UK) progressive house, which was very popular in the early 00's. Let me know if you want the names of some tunes to check out.

If you could tell me some names I would most interested - perhaps the ones you consider to be most similar to dubstep for starters.

[epithet]

that proggy house stuff was closer to 'plodstep' which is basically watered down breaks...lee coombs, meat katie, dj hyper etc

[fractal]

so tired of hearing ___step (fill in the blank with anything your lil heart desires)

and arguing over labels and genres is silly, discussion is fun

[special_k]

I thought the hardcore continuim was supposed to be about the sonic evolution and mutation that coincided with the subculture, and this works with rave/hardcore>jungle/DNB>garage>Grime/dubstep with many other genres making contributions to the aesthetics of the sounds in the process. But funky is a complete departure from that lineage, theres no sonic continuim, might be an inner city london subculture that has adopted it but is that sufficient for it to truely qualify? Surely if it was it would be soncially traceble back to it's core components as well as culturally.

[slothrop]

Ah yes, simon reynolds the bliss blogger. He being the originator of the 'nuum, having dubious taste in music and a former penchant for chemically enhanced electronica. The last of a dying breed of ol skool tastemakers. Don't think he's much into the d

SR is the don, as far as I'm concerned. He was pretty much the first serious critic to start taking dance music on its own terms (ie going raving and writing about the tunes and the culture rather than sitting at home criticizing anything that doesn't produce 'proper albums' with 'real musicianship' or whatever) and the original Energy Flash is still required reading IMO. Even if you disagree with a lot of it, it actually challenges you and makes you think.

Unfortunately, he recently seems to have started not really bothering to listen to much UK underground dance stuff, but still giving big pronouncements on the state of different scenes and making generalizations about what's going on.

[slothrop]

I thought the hardcore continuim was supposed to be about the sonic evolution and mutation that coincided with the subculture, and this works with rave/hardcore>jungle/DNB>garage>Grime/dubstep with many other genres making contributions to the aesthetics of the sounds in the process. But funky is a complete departure from that lineage, theres no sonic continuim, might be an inner city london subculture that has adopted it but is that sufficient for it to truely qualify? Surely if it was it would be soncially traceble back to it's core components as well as culturally.

Wasn't that true of speed garage as well, though?

[shonky]

rave/hardcore>jungle/d&b>UKG>dubstep/grime and now funky.

i dunno it just seems broken has more influence from rave/jungle/garage etc than funky does..

http://www.myspace.com/markdeclivelowe - check 'turn the light'.. really funky

http://www.myspace.com/sonarcircle - check 'faster than the sun' and also 'BnE 1 dub' which is sort of on a dark broken break flex

http://www.myspace.com/richardspaven - check 'promise is'

http://www.myspace.com/afronaught - check 'dreams come true' a bugz tune


http://www.myspace.com/2000black
http://www.mysapce.com/goyamusic

this is the sound that id personally prefer to be pushed more, it has more relevance to what i am and have been into for years and i can only imagine its the same thing for a lot of heads making/listenin to funky.? funky has an emphasis on 4/4 rhythms whereas broken has a more, well, broken rhythm structure, like jungle/2step/grime/dubstep..

Yes Mr Tron, totally agree. I think some of the more harder edged, bassy broken beat is sonically closer to the nuum sound and rhythmically far more interesting. Been buying more of this lately than dubstep - all about the drums I think

[chef]

Checkout the Afroforce dub of Nicole Willis - Hold On. it's baaad. Been spinning it here and there.

[bribkin]

Checkout the Afroforce dub of Nicole Willis - Hold On. it's baaad. Been spinning it here and there.

Nicole Willis is heavy.

Just to throw a spanner in the works though..... how much does it matter if the scene comes before the sound?

You can be skeptical about Martin's motives, but I've just been updating myself on all the blogs around and it's pretty obvious that everyone who writes opinion/tastemaking has their own agenda. It's been obvious for example for TIME that Simon Reynolds really just wants to go back to the rave days and lately it's been blinding his judgement imho.

But a lot of ppl on here would agree that dubstep has become really tedious and repetitive and it's time for something new, so if a group of people who have the power to push something else forward do so, is that really a bad thing? I think it's a big move.

Isn't that what Soulja did with FWD in the first place? Isn't giving the music a place to grow and develop the best way of pushing it forward?

I have to say I'm pretty sick of hearing people talk about Soulja and Gee as if they are always doing stuff wrong, it totally takes for granted all the massive things they have done and the lifetime's work they have dedicated to putting forward good music and keeping things moving. Whatever issues you may have about some of their decisions it seems it might be reasonable to keep that in mind?

Also if you read through Martin's blog properly you'll see that he hasn't been unwaveringly in favour of Funky.

Just some thoughts.

[bribkin]

Oops sorry that last bit was meant as a response to the following:

Sorry, but i smell bullshit coming from your quarter blackdown. It just seems like a convenient copout claiming to respect the wishes of a select few while decieving the public at large of the *ahem* true roots of dubstep

Also though, what everyone is saying about the continuum is true, though my immediate reaction is to not give a fuck because as someone that's studied all types of theory for years one of the most valuable things I know is never to put the theory before what actually goes on artistically.... I think oneman is partly right.... but having been listening all yesterday to Skepta's new Rinse mix which I know isn't out yet puts it in another context, which is that grime producers have been moving towards 4/4 for a couple of years now anyway. And if the sound grows organically out of the subculture then that fits just fine. Don't need to put it in no big words!!

If you were gonna rely on Reynolds it would just be a reaction, which if you read Energy Flash properly is a vital part of what he documents.

People just wanna rave. Simple.

Besides all that I think it would be totally erroneous to base the whole nuum theory on beats/rhythms/bpm, whatever. Timbres/textures and overarching moods, vocal elements, etc. gotta have some role in it as well. Otherwise music would be kind of boring wouldn't it.

[seckle]

how much does it matter if the scene comes before the sound?

great point.

[ory]

That would be the new breed of (UK) progressive house, which was very popular in the early 00's. Let me know if you want the names of some tunes to check out.

If you could tell me some names I would most interested - perhaps the ones you consider to be most similar to dubstep for starters.

Well to begin with there's the tribal sound, which relates to Mala and Quest (though I don't know if they've been directly influenced by it).

Try these:

The Low End Specialists - Smoked Piece
Chimera - Just Wanna Do My Thing
Mavi - Sufi

that proggy house stuff was closer to 'plodstep' which is basically watered down breaks...lee coombs, meat katie, dj hyper etc

Not quite sure what you're on about here.

[tronman]

Isn't that what Soulja did with FWD in the first place? Isn't giving the music a place to grow and develop the best way of pushing it forward?

this is also what goya did with Co-Op, strangely enough starting out at Velvet Rooms (like fwd>>) before moving on to Plastic People (like fwd>>)..

i just get the feeling that the ppl making/raving to funky are all people from a 2step/grime background who miss the 2step vibes, and want to put on some smart clothes, sip some champagne and dance, which is all good, but to me Funky is nowhere near sonically progressive or interesting as Broken Beat.

[slothrop]

But a lot of ppl on here would agree that dubstep has become really tedious and repetitive and it's time for something new,

A lot of other people would say that those people need to pull their heads out of their arses and listen to some of what's around, though. I mean, this is exactly what I'm talking about. People (SR and Mark K-Punk have been doing this a bit in their responses to funky and bassline, for instance) decide that funky is the New Thing and dubstep is the Old Thing, and funky is upbeat and fun and relaxed and therefore to fit their argument they have to say that all dubstep is miserable ploddy horrorcore halfstep. You point out Kode 9, Mala, D1, Whistla, Geiom, Hessle Audio, Hyperdub, 2562, Peverelist, TRG, Untold, Quest, Silkie, Shonky and all the other people who have almost nothing to do with predictable halfstep horrorcore and they say that those are exceptions to the rule and they aren't interested, dubstep is still boring.

With the amount of awesome stuff coming from the 'exceptions' it seems pretty stupid to write the whole scene off, but people seem to do that if it fits better with their narrative about exciting fresh new funky taking over from boring ploddy staid dubstep, and if anything, that's going to suffocate the people within dubstep who aren't doing boring ploddy staid stuff, as an audience who could have been turned on to them are just told that dubstep's boring and on its way out.

I'm probably taking it too seriously, but this is kind of fecking me off at the moment.

[Krumb]

Checkout the Afroforce dub of Nicole Willis - Hold On. it's baaad. Been spinning it here and there.

Yes chefal! Thats a big tune, been playing that for a while now

[slothrop]

Isn't that what Soulja did with FWD in the first place? Isn't giving the music a place to grow and develop the best way of pushing it forward?

this is also what goya did with Co-Op, strangely enough starting out at Velvet Rooms (like fwd>>) before moving on to Plastic People (like fwd>>)..

i just get the feeling that the ppl making/raving to funky are all people from a 2step/grime background who miss the 2step vibes, and want to put on some smart clothes, sip some champagne and dance, which is all good, but to me Funky is nowhere near sonically progressive or interesting as Broken Beat.

Got any mixes along those lines? Most of the broken beat I've heard has sounded kind of interestingly open ended but never in a way that gets me excited. It's like people can do what they want to do sonically but it doesn't really matter and it never really sounds surprising. I've also found the retroish jazz / funk / soul aesthetics of a lot of what I've heard strangle it a bit, is there anything edgier?

[bribkin]

But a lot of ppl on here would agree that dubstep has become really tedious and repetitive and it's time for something new,

You point out Kode 9, Mala, D1, Whistla, Geiom, Hessle Audio, Hyperdub, 2562, Peverelist, TRG, Untold, Quest, Silkie, Shonky and all the other people who have almost nothing to do with predictable halfstep horrorcore and they say that those are exceptions to the rule and they aren't interested, dubstep is still boring.

With the amount of awesome stuff coming from the 'exceptions' it seems pretty stupid to write the whole scene off, but people seem to do that if it fits better with their narrative about exciting fresh new funky taking over from boring ploddy staid dubstep, and if anything, that's going to suffocate the people within dubstep who aren't doing boring ploddy staid stuff, as an audience who could have been turned on to them are just told that dubstep's boring and on its way out.

I'm probably taking it too seriously, but this is kind of fecking me off at the moment.

Nah I don't disagree with any of that, that's kind of why I said taking the theory too seriously can be a mistake as well.

ONEBUM i think ur right there as well quite possibly, but CO-op was sooo much more interesting about 4 years ago.... jeez suddenly i feel old.

Maybe they should both look to each other and start off some exciting competition. OOOEeeee!

[slothrop]

Nah I don't disagree with any of that, that's kind of why I said taking the theory too seriously can be a mistake as well.

Cool. I agree with you that it's cool to see people supporting funky because its showing some signs of getting really good rather than because it's already obviously awesome, by the way.

Actually, I'd really like to hear more dubstep producers and DJs picking up the interesting / cool / fun elements of funky and mixing it into their styles, get a Kode 9 refix of Bongo Jam on the go or something.

[bribkin]

Nah I don't disagree with any of that, that's kind of why I said taking the theory too seriously can be a mistake as well.

get a Kode 9 refix of Bongo Jam on the go or something.

Amazing !

[shonky]

With the amount of awesome stuff coming from the 'exceptions' it seems pretty stupid to write the whole scene off, but people seem to do that if it fits better with their narrative about exciting fresh new funky taking over from boring ploddy staid dubstep, and if anything, that's going to suffocate the people within dubstep who aren't doing boring ploddy staid stuff, as an audience who could have been turned on to them are just told that dubstep's boring and on its way out.

I think that's already happening to be honest, but then the exceptions will do what they want to do regardless. The healthiest way forward is to take the bits you like and ditch all the purist bullshit, so as to not just end up with generic sludge. Think Elgato mentioned ages back that levity is sorely lacking in dubstep, and the over-earnestness of a lot of the deeper stuff and the grating nature of a lot of the bangers is making quite a lot of people look elsewhere for inspiration and indeed fun. Whilst I don't reckon that funky is (yet) that interesting, I can see some cross-pollination being healthy for the scene as a whole.

I don't really think dubstep's on the way out, it's clearly more popular than it's ever been since it came on the scene, but for all the new releases, I think too many people seem to be basing their tunes on particular blueprints that have been caned to death to my mind. So whilst it might be good in the short term, it does face killing it off when the scenesters move on elsewhere