Banksy at it again.

kion · Post by **kion** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:46 pm

^^^ very well put

pk- · Post by **pk-** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:01 pm

and, if someone finds within themself the urge to comment on dominant ideology, psychic oppression and social heirachies, do they neccesarily have to be the most consistent, dedicated socialist evar in order to be worth a look? in order to be entitled to expression?

no, of course they don't. but it certainly depreciates the value of their opinion if they're a fucking hypocrite.

he makes art. how subtle do you think he should be with his opinions/feelings/reactions about the world he lives in?
perhaps he ought to have a little self-awareness and refrain from public discourse, eh? who does he think he is? bloody loudmouth.

the key thing is he doesn't just make art to be appreciated for its aesthetic qualities - there's an obtrusively blatant poltical message in much of it (not all of it, granted). and frankly i reckon that if you don't live by what you preach you shouldn't be painting it on people's walls

artistic licence aint a piece of paper, you don't get given it.

what does this have to do with artistic license?

the points of access, the shrines, are live events, officially blessed products, and media promotion/plugging/reportage.
the officially blessed artifacts/fetishes/totums/charms have to be aqquired through sanctioned vendors, a secure mechanism where real money/work-hours can be exchanged for authentically emenated by-products of fame, glory and natural-superiority.
what does it mean if you can go into one of these places, choose your brand, make your sacrifice, and end up with some piece of cottage-industry, giggling vandalism? something that didn't travel the route of databases and freight trucks and uniformed shelf-stackers.

that's all well and good, in an oh-so-postmodern, art college way, but what about the people - and amazing as it may seem, there will be some - who bought that cd because they actually wanted to hear it. what right does some self-satisfied tnuc from bristol have to ruin their purchase just so he can make a banal point about how paris hilton isn't all that talented and/or useful? the fact that he spends his time poncing about painting huge monuments to his own ego on other people's property makes his point all that more banal, and his hypocrisy all the more evident.

in my opinion, anyway!

bedward · Post by **bedward** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:08 am

pk- wrote:... but it certainly depreciates the value of their opinion if they're a fucking hypocrite.

i personally don't think so.
or ppl would hardly ever change their behaviour.
an opinion is an opinion. it's ideas.
i'm not even that sure what many of banksy's opinions are, anyway.

pk- wrote:the key thing is he doesn't just make art to be appreciated for its aesthetic qualities - there's an obtrusively blatant poltical message in much of it (not all of it, granted). and frankly i reckon that if you don't live by what you preach you shouldn't be painting it on people's walls

i suppose it depends how preached-to you feel.
i don't find any clash between the illustrations he makes, with their particular level of propagandist thrust, and the fact that he makes good money from selling his own work.
"art is not a mirror, it's a hammer."

pk- wrote:what does this have to do with artistic license?

cos he can say what he flippin well likes, whatever.

pk- wrote:... what about the people - and amazing as it may seem, there will be some - who bought that cd because they actually wanted to hear it.

they'll be fine...

parson · Post by **parson** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:52 am

i don't think any of the stores had any complaints

ands · Post by **ands** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:46 am

i recently read the following on an artist web community

"...writers have not and should not now exempt themselves from dealing with the pressing politics of the time. Today it is, once again, war and empire. And it is with these monstrosities that we should engage in one form or another. What would Euripides, Marlowe or Brecht have done? They would have made these times strange, to use a Brechtian formula, so that an audience could see their society anew and possibly act on those new visions. Why settle for a lesser goal?"
-- Naomi Wallace

obviously art speaks.

and why should Banksy or any other artist not use the mediums at their disposal [mediums which are currently freedoms, not necessarily available to every individual of the world] to express individual and/or societal discontent? I keep reading about how polemical Banksy is, but i dont see how his art is really that controversial. provocative definitely, but not polemical. or at least in the direct attack sense of the word.

just look at the target here. the very definition of provocative herself. and whether he intended to or not [imo he did] Banksy has provoked you to discuss why he chose this target and what she represents, and whether she is even worthy of a 'controversial' discussion.

its the very art of the jester to provide a social commentary, the jester who was at times more intelligent and worldly than the court itself. yet described as a fool throughout history, the jester was the considered a necessary source of health and an informal political advisor. do you not see the jest in Banksy's work?

because i've recently discovered this group, i'm going to make another parallel. Banksy's work [at least this particular Paris Hilton instance] is also very reminiscent of les entarteurs /les entartistes.
there is a similar message and similar choice of target. i wonder what Noel Godin has to say about this whole hullabaloo.
Godin chooses targets that "function in the service of the capitalist status quo, without really using [their] intelligence or imagination". Is this not the very epitome of Paris Hilton? Godin was also described as "part social philosopher and part guerilla artist". I cannot help but to see the similarities. And I cannot help but to think, when I hear the name Banksy, guerrilla art

Banksy's work, along with other artists who involve a level of social commentary in their art, is beyond inspiring. It is worthy of a certain level of respect because they provoke these very discussions about our society's current values, the discussions it seems that many of us would so effortlessly dismiss at a moments notice when we'd rather not take the time or effort and instead mindlessly 'drone about'. But the discussions are necessary, and the jest is wonderful. Any artist that can jest at the current state of affairs while provoking necessary discussions is one that I can get behind.

pk- · Post by **pk-** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:27 am

sorry, i didn't mean to swear quite so much or be quite so rude to you bedward in that post. i was slightly worse for wear

and why should Banksy or any other artist not use the mediums at their disposal [mediums which are currently freedoms, not necessarily available to every individual of the world] to express individual and/or societal discontent?

i think what really gets to me about banksy is the way in which he's trumpeted as this rebellious, almost revolutionary political subversive when all he really does is paint mildly amusing paintings on other people's property. i'm probably making a mistake assuming that this revolutionary role is one that he is actively pursuing, but there's a certain smugness to his work that suggests - to me at least - that he loves to be thought of in this way.

i'm not particularly convinced as to the sincerity of his societal discontent. he paints things on walls, great. he also sells canvases for tens of thousands of pounds, and happily lets people pay over twenty quid for a book of his work published by an enormous media conglomerate. if he resents capitalism as much as his work would suggest, why is he embracing it so readily?

Banksy's work, along with other artists who involve a level of social commentary in their art, is beyond inspiring.

it's not, it's fairly banal stencils that occasionally feature polemical undertones. when it actually comes down to it, what does banksy and his work actually achieve? i don't agree with you that he provokes sociopolitical debate, or even provides an alternative angle from which to view the world around us. at best he provokes a double take and a wry smirk.

parson · Post by **parson** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:05 pm

questioning capitalism doesn't mean you hate it or shouldn't be able to benefit from it

you're acting just like these people who say we should leave america when we complain about imperialism and brainwashing propaganda

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:33 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5335400.stm

He's at it in Disneyland now - chap

pablex · Post by **pablex** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:44 pm

i was about to post that
he's taking huge risks and i hope he'll still be abble not to get caught

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:58 pm

I think he does more good than harm, I wasn't aware there was so much negativity towards him until I read this thread. He's inspired a lot of folks to get creative with the stencils and certainly making those walls more interesting.

Certainly better than the usual "Chantelle is a slag" that we see too often

There may be some hypocrisy in what he does, but I think you'll find that anywhere. Plenty of anti-capitalists working for capitalists you know, it's pretty unavoidable.

When I found out John Lydon was a property developer in the US I definitely felt a little more out of sorts with that

dust shop · Post by **dust shop** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:41 am

Noel Godin is funny while Banksy seems sometimes a little arty farty when going on political issues even if i really like some stuff he did...

mr. messer · Post by **mr. messer** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:18 pm

rachel wrote:
UFO over easy wrote:
Superisk wrote: Ofcourse the mans guna be in the media, he gained alot more hype from his stencil days than most would have expected and he could be making BIG money, far more than he does from his books etc....instead he's still sneaking around doing whatever he wants...
Indeed. He's one of the lucky ones, and is taking advantage of the money he makes from book sales etc to have a bit of a laugh.. fair play. All these conspiracy theories are kind of funny.

I liked his stencil work anyway, some of them look pretty cool.

what conspiracy theories?

stencils are all well and good. clumsy politics is not. showing up and painting shit on the security wall in the palestinian territories??? oh SO clever. pats himself on back and fucks off back to east london, doubtless to be slapped on back sum more by arty mates/assorted media types, whilst my man in the west bank carries on trying to live with the damn thing. if i met him i'd punch him. straight up. stencil that, init.

hahaha hes got you right where he wants you.

hes a normal, drinkin londoner whos takin the piss.
my old art teacher rented a room to him a decade ago. she said he was the most normal guy. a bit frustrated...but completely sound. arty mates? assorted media types? he laughs at em. as he would laugh at u if he read that...

he just lets the media take its course... debating banksy lol. jesus...

mr. messer · Post by **mr. messer** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:21 pm

eventualdecline wrote:I personally like finding his stuff while I'm out doing things.

spot on. his pieces should be landmarks. they have enough hype negative or otherwise thanks to people like you lot..

mr. messer · Post by **mr. messer** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:23 pm

Alex bk-bk wrote:ben i didint mean the che merchandise in terms of its commercial value, more in terms of the supposedly rebelious, subversive imagery that's actually really trite and drained of meaning

baaahahhahaa

mr. messer · Post by **mr. messer** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:25 pm

boomnoise wrote: Mate, i work in this industry and that is more than likely. I'm not conspiritorial at all but i know how these things work.

I really can't be bother to get into all the reasons i have zero respect for him but i will leave it with the fact that he says nothing to me about my life and that's enough.

oh christ.

you lot are funny.

rachel · Post by **rachel** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Mr. Messer wrote:
rachel wrote:
UFO over easy wrote:
Superisk wrote: Ofcourse the mans guna be in the media, he gained alot more hype from his stencil days than most would have expected and he could be making BIG money, far more than he does from his books etc....instead he's still sneaking around doing whatever he wants...
Indeed. He's one of the lucky ones, and is taking advantage of the money he makes from book sales etc to have a bit of a laugh.. fair play. All these conspiracy theories are kind of funny.

I liked his stencil work anyway, some of them look pretty cool.

what conspiracy theories?

stencils are all well and good. clumsy politics is not. showing up and painting shit on the security wall in the palestinian territories??? oh SO clever. pats himself on back and fucks off back to east london, doubtless to be slapped on back sum more by arty mates/assorted media types, whilst my man in the west bank carries on trying to live with the damn thing. if i met him i'd punch him. straight up. stencil that, init.
hahaha hes got you right where he wants you.

hes a normal, drinkin londoner whos takin the piss.
my old art teacher rented a room to him a decade ago. she said he was the most normal guy. a bit frustrated...but completely sound. arty mates? assorted media types? he laughs at em. as he would laugh at u if he read that...

he just lets the media take its course... debating banksy lol. jesus...

i'm not feeling too manipulated, tbh. had forgotten about banksy about 10 secs after i typed that, so no 'right where he wants me' about it. plus from time his shit is selling for £100s on ebay he's part of the art/media establishment and so as up for debate as anyone. anyways i'm too busy working on stencils to stick on david hasselfhoff posters telling the world he's a talentless wanker. eye-opening stuff...roll on the revolution, get me?

mr. messer · Post by **mr. messer** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:31 pm

seeeeeeeen!

ozols man · Post by **ozols man** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:03 pm

Pablex wrote:i was about to post that
he's taking huge risks and i hope he'll still be abble not to get caught

funny u say that... u know things r a bit sketchy if u get into serious trouble for planting a doll in a theme park..
i say good on banksy, hes just a fucking joker really

superisk · Post by **superisk** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:19 pm

ozols man wrote: hes just a fucking joker really

EG FUCKING ZACTLY.

Nail on head, take it with a pinch of salt etc etc

m9918868 · Post by **m9918868** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:57 pm

rachel wrote: plus from time his shit is selling for £100s on ebay he's part of the art/media establishment

Absolutely. £100s is a huge amount of money -especially in the field of arts- and after all, ebay really is one of the most distinctive art galleries.

Banksy at it again.

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