Man who died at G20 protests - new footage.

sang-froid · Post by **sang-froid** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:45 pm

datura wrote:
sang-froid wrote:Looking at images should not, in my opinion, be a criminal offence. Abusing children, on the other hand, is a criminal offence, and rightly so, or do you not discern an important difference between the two . . . ?
The taking of the images constitute an abuse of a child and hence by looking at them, especially if it involves paying, is therefore supporting that abuse surely?

Indeed, the taking of the images may well constitute abusing children, as you say, and as such, constitute 'criminal acts' around which there is, rightly, a raft of legislation. While I consider such an enterprise to be morally repugnant and correctly outside of generally accepted societal norms, I still do not believe that viewing images, of whatever nature, should be criminalised.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:20 pm

tr0tsky wrote:

It is rather crass for someone who is so well read to come out with
tr0tsky wrote:Asking what the heck Spiked has to do with anything.

It's crap and run by a bunch of nutjobs.
.

That's fair enough, though I have sourced wikipedia articles about them in another post. And I know wikipedia isn't the be-all and end-all and I know it's lazy and I know you might not have read the post but it's a half-explanation as to why I didn't fully source and explain why I felt they're nutters.

[quote
And when you say
organisations they represent
what organisations do you mean? And in what way do they repressent them?
I mean the whole ex-RCP cabal. They've got a history of setting up front-groups, lead by the Fox-Freudi clique. Examples include Modern Movement (a group campaigning for the 3rd runway at Heathrow), the Institute of Ideas, Culture Wars journal and Spiked.

I'm a bit too busy to go through properly my criticisms of the sect but what I can do is point you in the direction of articles in (mainstream) newspapers that can give you some idea of the type of nut-jobs we're talking about here.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/s ... ioncode=26

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story ... 53,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... 53,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... 54,00.html

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/1997/12 ... televised/

Mate you should be ashamed hiding behind a liberal rag like the guardian. Do you honestly think it is radical? Goarge Monbiot's a numpty only interested in maintaining the staus que. Not much progresive about him at all. He is basically a lower level aristocrat and i'd be very wary of using him as an ally in anything. What are you aligning yourself with him for? He does have his own agenda you know. His little moral war/crusade against former members of the RCP is pathetic and almost obsesive paranoid and based on very little else other then false accusation's such as "Frank Feradi is in the pockets of big oil". And none it it can be backed up with fact's. He is basically just a conspiracy theorist.

magma · Post by **magma** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:31 pm

Perhaps we should get off the subject of Spiked and back to the G20 fallout..... this subject doesn't seem to be heading towards any kind of resolution.....

tr0tsky · Post by **tr0tsky** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:49 pm

metalboxproducts wrote: Mate you should be ashamed hiding behind a liberal rag like the guardian.

Hardly. The reason why I posted links the it was because a) it's mainstream, it's moderated by the PCC and isn't seen as radical and b) to stop any accusation that an article that I'd sourced was somehow out-there, on the fringes of the press or anarchist/communist/crackpot conspiracyist. You're damned if you do or you're damned if you don't.

Do you honestly think it is radical?

Do I need to answer that question?

I agree that Monbiot is a numpty (at best) but you're forgetting why I bothered pointing you to an article by him in the first place: because me and Firky are not alone in saying that the RCP are loonies. He's hardly an ally, just someone that I've used to illustrate what I'm saying.

I don't even know why we're discussing the RCP. They're a sect of nutters making out as if they have an intelligent agenda. Don't be fooled by it.

I've met and engaged with them before a whole number of times, you've gotta trust me on this one.

The question that's asked is, with the substantiated criticism that's been levelled against Spiked and the RCP, why do you continue to defend them?

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:05 pm

Magma wrote:Perhaps we should get off the subject of Spiked and back to the G20 fallout..... this subject doesn't seem to be heading towards any kind of resolution.....

Yeah, you are right.

There is a danger that this guy is almost being held up as a marta for the cause.Admitidly it is a personal tragedy for him (as he is dead) and a tragedy for his family who have lost some one who they loved.

The police issue on the other hand is a very complex one that deserves a more balanced and well thought out debate then im able to give right now. My typing is shit and it's taken me ages to write even this. There are so many variables in a situation like this and they all need to be discussed/considered. It's not really a surprise that there are irregularities/discrepancy's in what the police are saying and what actually happened.It will be interesting to see what happens and the next few months.

magma · Post by **magma** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:17 pm

Yeah, I agree with all of that. I don't think that public opinion can be too defined until any reports/enquiries start to come out... i.e. depending on whether they're fair and balanced in light of all the evidence presented or whether they go too easy/hard on the police.

At the moment the process hasn't finished, so it's a bit rich to be tearing the process to shreds already.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:02 pm

Heavy handed policing eh? Who'da thunk it?

Is there a situation that the poice can't make worse by simply being there.
Actually there are quite a few exceptions to that genaralisiation LOL.

Im sure there are some decent copper's out there but they are very few and far between. The police are basically an arm of the state and are naturally subserviant to the will of the state not the the will of the civilian population and there for, they are my enemy.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:04 pm

Just out of interest has anyone here ever been arrested and banged up for the night?

firky · Post by **firky** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:09 pm

metalboxproducts wrote:Just out of interest has anyone here ever been arrested and banged up for the night?

Once for twice, never been charged with anything however.

Been smacked by coppers too. Once was at a warehouse party and I clobbed on the back and once for smirking at a copper. I have also had very positive experiences of the police, I am not ACAB, I just think they're mostly twats.

magma · Post by **magma** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:54 pm

Not for the night. Got banged up for a few hours in the temporary cells at Glastonbury, though. Cops were great actually (even let me keep my herbs

)... it was the festival security that were dicks...

8bitboi · Post by **8bitboi** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:00 pm

got banged up in a cell for 24+ hours on newyears DAY !! due to my bro using my name when they pulled him !

Not a happy new years bunny !

firky · Post by **firky** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:15 pm

8bitboi wrote:got banged up in a cell for 24+ hours on newyears DAY !! due to my bro using my name when they pulled him !
!

I love it when siblings are utter twats to each other

8bitboi · Post by **8bitboi** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:43 pm

Firky wrote:
8bitboi wrote:got banged up in a cell for 24+ hours on newyears DAY !! due to my bro using my name when they pulled him !
!

I love it when siblings are utter twats to each other

lol you dont kno the half of it lol

sang-froid · Post by **sang-froid** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:03 pm

Magma wrote:Perhaps we should get off the subject of Spiked and back to the G20 fallout..... this subject doesn't seem to be heading towards any kind of resolution.....

Well, the quote I originally posted (and yes, from a Spiked article, heaven help us!) was, in fact, very much related to a particular aspect of the 'G20 protest fallout' as far as I saw it. Seems to me that it was you, and a couple of others, that took it off down the path of 'let's keep spiked out of this' like you didn't quite know how to deal with it or something.

firky · Post by **firky** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:10 pm

8bitboi wrote:
Firky wrote:
8bitboi wrote:got banged up in a cell for 24+ hours on newyears DAY !! due to my bro using my name when they pulled him !
!

I love it when siblings are utter twats to each other
lol you dont kno the half of it lol

I have two brothers, fella

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:49 am

Firky wrote:
metalboxproducts wrote:Just out of interest has anyone here ever been arrested and banged up for the night?
Once for twice, never been charged with anything however.

Been smacked by coppers too. Once was at a warehouse party and I clobbed on the back and once for smirking at a copper. I have also had very positive experiences of the police, I am not ACAB, I just think they're mostly twats.

Not nice is it.

magma · Post by **magma** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:04 pm

sang-froid wrote:
Magma wrote:Perhaps we should get off the subject of Spiked and back to the G20 fallout..... this subject doesn't seem to be heading towards any kind of resolution.....
Well, the quote I originally posted (and yes, from a Spiked article, heaven help us!) was, in fact, very much related to a particular aspect of the 'G20 protest fallout' as far as I saw it. Seems to me that it was you, and a couple of others, that took it off down the path of 'let's keep spiked out of this' like you didn't quite know how to deal with it or something.

Nah dude, I replied to it. In fact, we'd talked about the idea of Tomlinson's involvement being blown up out of all proportion in the past. As much as anything, I think it's probably useful to use it as a catalyst to get enquiries and public campaigns going.... it is being made a big deal, yeah, but a "poster child" is always useful for a cause.

sang-froid · Post by **sang-froid** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:45 pm

Yeah, true. Then it's a question of what's 'the cause' I guess.

tr0tsky · Post by **tr0tsky** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:54 pm

sang-froid wrote:Yeah, true. Then it's a question of what's 'the cause' I guess.

Revolutionary dictatorship of the working class.

Straight up.

sang-froid · Post by **sang-froid** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:04 pm

tr0tsky wrote:
sang-froid wrote:Yeah, true. Then it's a question of what's 'the cause' I guess.
Revolutionary dictatorship of the working class.

Straight up.

Yeah . . ? Not on the back of the next police enquiry tho.

Man who died at G20 protests - new footage.

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