CONDONING PIRACY?

the-voice-of-reason · Post by **the-voice-of-reason** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:49 pm

[quote="jason burns"]

well imagine that we didn't have the internet. if you wanted to put out any music at all you would have to get yourself signed to a big label. it used to be an all or nothing thing. either your a big star who makes millions or your nobody, and even people with amazing talent get passed by because they never got lucky with a big break. now everyone can be heard.

and if you think about it, most artists best album is their first right? the one with all the songs they wrote when they were broke. then they blow up, lose touch with reality/start believing their own hype and put out garbage for the rest of their career.[/quote]

So how did people make it in music and actually make a living out of music before the internet? Believe it or not there was money to be made out of pressing vinyl or being a producer before 1999

feral witchchild · Post by **feral witchchild** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:02 pm

It sounds to me like most of you are just mad because you're poor, or want an excuse to blame your lack of success on. lpl

...and I'm not saying that to make it seem like I'm ballin' off of my own music, because I'm not. I have no interest in capitalizing upon it, really. I'm just not bitter or small-minded enough to get worked up and all self-righteous over something I can't help.

How is it that, oh, I don't know, all the most famous producers still manage to make money off of music despite the fact that filesharing is more popular now than it has ever been?

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:06 pm

alien pimp wrote:have some of you people ever heard of this new concept called

(INTELLECTUAL) PROPERTY???

dubstee · Post by **dubstee** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:09 pm

There's quite a lack of understanding of the issues in this thread.

The argument that there is an upside to piracy in terms of getting music heard is a joke. Youtube don't pay royalties. They should, and they might in future, but not many people see streaming a tune on youtube as piracy (even though technically it is as long as they're not paying royalties). So there is a way of hearing music without directly stealing a product (i.e. an mp3), and therefore the argument that downloading high quality mp3s which are available for purchase is somehow helpful to the artist in question is utter rubbish.

It's true that a lot of people who download music illegally also purchase a lot of music. But each time someone downloads a release illegally, and does not go on to purchase that music in the same format (i.e. buying the mp3 through Beatport or wherever), they are stealing from the artist - that's the bottom line.

A common argument in favour of file sharing is that major labels ripped off consumers and artists for so long. So how many file sharers differentiate between major labels and independents? If you illegally download dubstep music you are directly stealing from the people who make and/or facilitate music that you (presumably) love. How do you justify that to yourself?

Yes most money in music is made through performance these days. But artists don't make more than previously in real terms, it's just that they make more relative to the money they make from record sales and associated revenue, which has gone down due to piracy.

feral witchchild · Post by **feral witchchild** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:10 pm

alien pimp wrote:
alien pimp wrote:have some of you people ever heard of this new concept called

(INTELLECTUAL) PROPERTY???

I'm certainly not trying to say that people don't have the right to legally own or defend their own shit, man. All I'm trying to say is that at this point, filesharing is here to stay, and that bitching about it is akin to bitching about the atom bomb. Yeah, it sucks, but will bitching change anything? Like I said, if someone else is making money off of it, that's fucked up, and I would certainly be mad as well.

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:12 pm

that's not the issue either, there's means to rob an old lady too without getting caught and they're here to stay

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:13 pm

Feral Witchchild wrote:It sounds to me like most of you are just mad because you're poor, or want an excuse to blame your lack of success on. lpl

...and I'm not saying that to make it seem like I'm ballin' off of my own music, because I'm not. I have no interest in capitalizing upon it, really. I'm just not bitter or small-minded enough to get worked up and all self-righteous over something I can't help.

How is it that, oh, I don't know, all the most famous producers still manage to make money off of music despite the fact that filesharing is more popular now than it has ever been?

its about selfishness more than anything. this is the thing that really irks me the most. all the people that support p2p in any fashion are so selfish. its all me me me me me. my hard disk, my mp3 collection, my music blog, my slsk account. these people don't give a fuck about anyone else, or more importantly about the people that put in the work to make the music that they feel entitled to distribute. what do they give back? promotion? sorry but thats not good enough.

sure , music should always be about the love of it, and not the money made from it, but we're talking about basic compensation for hard work here. if producer x has put 300 hours of work into a tune, shouldn't he have the choice to sell it and maybe make a bit of beer money for a friday night?

bandshell · Post by **bandshell** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:17 pm

If you put time, effort and money into anything and someone is stealing it, understandably your gonna be pissed off.

I personally, although you can't really comment on it until your in the situation, would be a lot more pissed off if someone was stealing and selling my tracks as opposed to just sharing them. A big aspect of listening to music is sharing it, hence raves etc sharing the vibe and all that.

Piracy hits the mid level producers hardest though, bigger producers can cope with it (despite it being fucking annoying and unfair), but for the smaller producers it can make a big impact.

At the other end of the spectrum that woman being fined a million odd quid or whatever it was is a bit extreme.

Not much you can do to stop it all really, just continue to enjoy making the music your making and know that people are enjoying it whether paying for it or not.
You can always have another job with a steady income and if music is your main source of income then presumably your putting on events and djing as well, because I doubt many people can make a living purely off record sales in underground scenes.

well that's my view anyway.

bandshell · Post by **bandshell** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:18 pm

also no one bitches to change anything fiend, that's why it's bitching

unlikely · Post by **unlikely** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:24 pm

alien pimp wrote:that's not the issue either, there's means to rob an old lady too without getting caught and they're here to stay

If there's a way to rob old ladies from the safety and comfort of my bedroom without getting caught then im in the wrong job

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:28 pm

yeah, try carding

feral witchchild · Post by **feral witchchild** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:33 pm

seckle wrote:
its about selfishness more than anything. this is the thing that really irks me the most. all the people that support p2p in any fashion are so selfish. its all me me me me me. my hard disk, my mp3 collection, my music blog, my slsk account. these people don't give a fuck about anyone else, or more importantly about the people that put in the work to make the music that they feel entitled to distribute. what do they give back? promotion? sorry but thats not good enough.

I get that man, and I understand completely, but what can you do, you know? Aside from not sharing tunes yourself, I mean. It would be nice if we lived in a world where everyone had integrity and respected the artists' wishes but this is simply not the case. I just don't think you guys should stress over it, really. :/

jason burns · Post by **jason burns** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:35 pm

dubstee wrote:There's quite a lack of understanding of the issues in this thread.

The argument that there is an upside to piracy in terms of getting music heard is a joke. Youtube don't pay royalties. They should, and they might in future, but not many people see streaming a tune on youtube as piracy (even though technically it is as long as they're not paying royalties). So there is a way of hearing music without directly stealing a product (i.e. an mp3), and therefore the argument that downloading high quality mp3s which are available for purchase is somehow helpful to the artist in question is utter rubbish.

the body of your paragraph does not support your opening and closing statements.

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:38 pm

Feral Witchchild wrote:
seckle wrote:
its about selfishness more than anything. this is the thing that really irks me the most. all the people that support p2p in any fashion are so selfish. its all me me me me me. my hard disk, my mp3 collection, my music blog, my slsk account. these people don't give a fuck about anyone else, or more importantly about the people that put in the work to make the music that they feel entitled to distribute. what do they give back? promotion? sorry but thats not good enough.
I get that man, and I understand completely, but what can you do, you know? Aside from not sharing tunes yourself, I mean. It would be nice if we lived in a world where everyone had integrity and respected the artists' wishes but this is simply not the case. I just don't think you guys should stress over it, really. :/

and since the world is imperfect anyway, lemme rape you for not making any valid point

feral witchchild · Post by **feral witchchild** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:42 pm

alien pimp wrote: and since the world is imperfect anyway, lemme rape you for not making any valid point

I'm sorry you're a struggling artist. Please hold while I e-cry you a motherfucking e-river. :'|

jason burns · Post by **jason burns** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:57 pm

ok so file sharing is totally wrong and horrible in every way, you've convinced me. now lets all make a wish on a falling star that we can all sell tons of records and never work a day in our lives ever again, readyyyyyy GO!

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:00 pm

Feral Witchchild wrote:
alien pimp wrote: and since the world is imperfect anyway, lemme rape you for not making any valid point
I'm sorry you're a struggling artist. Please hold while I e-cry you a motherfucking e-river. :'|

go make yourself useful

miig · Post by **miig** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:42 pm

why are people standing up for piracy as if there is nothing that can be done about it?

Prince shut down the big torrent site Pirate Bay - everyone else should jump on board and stamp it out.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:49 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/ ... 7E20090621

if you have problems with piracy you cant take it out on people like that.

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:20 pm

i for one have problems only with poor people stealing from people just as poor as them

i don't expect a spoiled kid to care about me, or the sharks in the industry, but my fellaz on dsf should know better

steal from the fuckers you see on cribs and mind that a pint in a decent bar is prolly 2 ep's in a digi store, you're cheap with the scene you "support" and save money to make some fatasses fatter!

CONDONING PIRACY?

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