Adding that extra "punch" to kickdrums

ushushnz · Post by **ushushnz** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:15 am

I've been playing around with layering a few drums and a few other bits and pieces but I'm having trouble getting them to sound as heavy as I would like... I think the best way to describe the sound I'm trying to achieve is like a "punchy" kind of sound if you guys know what I mean?

New to production so I'm posting a lot of random (and probably ridiculous) questions, but any help is heaps appreciated!

Thanks heaps.
Safe

tripwire22 · Post by **tripwire22** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:22 am

eq and compress

ushushnz · Post by **ushushnz** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 am

Can you elaborate on that just a touch

I.e how the fuck do I compress

tripwire22 · Post by **tripwire22** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:25 am

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=80059

sorry im feeling lazy i cant explain to u as much as u reading this link can

ushushnz · Post by **ushushnz** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:27 am

Not at all bro thanks tonnes.

tripwire22 · Post by **tripwire22** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:29 am

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?p ... t=#1314918

for ur eqing

future one · Post by **future one** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:36 am

Find find punchy samples to begin with is the best way.

Otherwise you can use these methods:

pitch the kicks up

Compress with a slow attack and fast release

Use some overdrive distortion

ushushnz · Post by **ushushnz** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:59 am

Just read both those links thanks Trip, absolute gold.

Also, messing around with the A+R at the moment Future, thanks heaps for your help brother!

b_lee · Post by **b_lee** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:29 am

One neat little trick I use is this

It may not be the type of "punch" you are describing, but it's woth a shot anyways. What you are doing with this technique is creating a new kick sample in an empty project in your DAW.

Take a bass-heavy kick and layer it with another kick that's lighter on the bass end. Run the "high" kick through a hipass filter with the cuttoff at about 1000 - 2000 hz and, if you can, apply a volume/amplitude envelope to it and set the envelope to a very short decay. Bam! Punchier transients/attack portions

. If you don't have any way of applying a volume envelope to a kick sound (as can be done in FL Studio), sample the high kick, open up the sample in an audio editor and apply a quick fade-out, then integrate that new sample back into your project, replacing the old one.

Next, apply seperate EQ to each layer to sculpt the sound just right. Run a bassline pattern using the bass sound you want to use in your track. This will be for reference while you EQ your kick to fit in its own sonic space. Slap an EQ on your bassline, too, then just play with all three EQs until you find that both the bass and your kick gel together just right.

Delete the bass track. Apply a compressor to the MASTER bus (you are compressing the final result of the two layered kick drums which are EQ'ed separately. Experiment with your compressor until you get the desired effect you are after. Extreme settings in this case work pretty well.

When you like what you hear, sample it (bounce your one-shot "tune" to a WAV file). Leave the project open or save it. That way you can test your new sample in an actual full mix and go back to your other project to fix anything that can't be corrected in a mixdown.

ruckus49 · Post by **ruckus49** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:46 am

http://sonictransfer.com/kick-drum-desi ... rial.shtml

even if you dont have ableton this explains things nicely

wormcode · Post by **wormcode** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:59 am

Layering + envelopes + eq.
But yeah, starting with the right sample is what you want to do ideally.

scooterjack · Post by **scooterjack** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:08 am

If none of the above works for you (although it should)

get a friend with a good boom mic and portable recorder to go with you as you find the nearest policeman. Then you proceed to slap said cop and your friend should get some really good THUMPIN samples of the cop beatin on you.

nothing says punchy kick, like a good boot to the gut from an overweight, disgruntled, roidrage having cop

serox · Post by **serox** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:06 am

Get a nice punchy kick drum like a standard 909 kick. Layer that on top of a 808 kick drum. Play around with some snares/rim shots to give some more punch on the kick.

You may want to try EQ/Filter some of the top of bottom on each.

Compress.

dj.ik · Post by **dj.ik** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:12 am

All good points made above....layer, envelope, eq, and compression.

When it comes to layering hits, I always use envelopes to shape the different transients....

...for example with snares, I might find a snappy hit and give that a fast attack, then a heavy bodied hit with a slower attack some sustain and quick release, then another hit with a slow attack and long release for the tail.

Then I'll set the sample offset and eq so the hits sounds as one and phase in a way I think sounds good.

If I do this right, I find some hits don't need compression.

Another good tip already mentioned is to use 808 or 909 hits in your layered drums. Nice punchy sub hits.

Also, hits don't have to be drums, other sounds can be useful too. Try layering a pitched kick, or a basketball bounce, with a snare. Or using kitchen utensils to make percussion noises to layer with your hits.

Distortion was already mentioned, along the exact same lines as saturation, which I love adding to mechanical hits. Tiny bit of reverb can also help fatten the sound.

Damn, now I think about it, there are loads of techniques you can use to get drums hitting nicely... sorry none of these tips will directly give you that snappy sound you're after, guess that part its a learning game of trial and error! - First learning curve, use GOOD samples to start with!

vivace · Post by **vivace** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:28 am

maybe this helps.. it's (approx) my take on things.. but that's just me.. ::
- limiter, around -20dB, small attack, slightly bigger release
- compressor, -70 threshold, ratio 1:6 to 1:9
- render
- EQ, boost 110-140Hz, kill that freq band in your bass, boost 900-1200Hz

savory audio · Post by **savory audio** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:51 am

I almost never layer kicks. I used to go crazy with the layering but I find it can get a bit messy. Best to find kicks that are pretty close to what you are looking for to start with. A lot of times if the kick isnt poking through, it is because it doesnt have proper room. in the mix, this is where sidechain comes in handy. You may need to duck more than just the sub, midrange sounds may be dialed in right where your punch is so it may need to be ducked too. I have also found that soumetimes kicks that dont sound good on their own sound great on a track. It can be a good Idea to sort out your sample later on in the process. I usually just plug in some random sounds to start with, just to get the rythm.

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:41 pm

only problem w/ layering kicks is that, at low frequencies, phase really makes a difference. zoom in and make sure your samples' waveforms are all going up and down at the same time-- or close. otherwise adding in a sample can actually reduce the power of something.

Break the sound down and visualise. in a kick, you've got the absolute bottom tone, the midrange knock, and the high-end attack. so you've got stuff around 40-100hz or so (depending on the sound), something in the 200-500range, and then something up in the 1-3k range. not a ton else. accentuate what's working w/ eq and get rid of everything that isnt. take a really full sounding kick sample and cut out 12db at 250hz or so--you'd be amazed at how little you miss that sometimes. the more efficient the sound, the more powerful.

for that "punch," compression w/ slow attack, fast release (maybe so fast it distorts), and a high ratio can do it. you might loose a ton of the tone of the drum so either copy the channel and do it as a mult, or use a compression plug in that lets you dial in a mix (ie, in parallel).

saturation can bring out the tone; limiting will increase RMS and power, but at the expense of 'punch'.

or just take some massive psytrance douchekick and layer it in there.

Mad_EP · Post by **Mad_EP** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:57 pm

terekete wrote:psytrance douchekick

best name ever.

scooterjack · Post by **scooterjack** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:00 pm

vivace wrote:maybe this helps.. it's (approx) my take on things.. but that's just me.. ::
- limiter, around -20dB, small attack, slightly bigger release
- compressor, -70 threshold, ratio 1:6 to 1:9
- render
- EQ, boost 110-140Hz, kill that freq band in your bass, boost 900-1200Hz

talk about completely destroying your transients....

Adding that extra "punch" to kickdrums

Adding that extra "punch" to kickdrums

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