how do you make kicks and snares?

jamiejamiejam · Post by **jamiejamiejam** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:55 pm

Basically, I've always used beats from sample packs or cut up breaks but I want to be able to make my own kicks and snares. I want to be able to base a song around some really sick drums and sample pack drums tbh are pretty shit and limited. So how do you actually make drums? I've used some fl studio drum machines and some vst drum machines but couldn't really get a deep sound I want. I thinking EL-B and drus like Forgive by Burial, ones that can ake a song just on their own. Is it some really hard process or am I just missing something obvious?

last & least · Post by **last & least** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:00 pm

no they just have reaaaally good "sample packs", like they pay money for them...

after that they eq and layer... which is putting more than one kick/snare to get a wider larger sound, this is because your taking the best parts of each sample and making one big super snare/kick.... check out the bible!

mks · Post by **mks** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:03 pm

Are you asking about how to synthesize drums? For years I've always sampled old drums off old vinyl and processed them.

As far as synthesis goes, for a snare use white noise with a strong attack and short decay on the envelope.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:05 pm

there are many aspects to consider

do you want to process something that already exists?

do you want to layer sounds?

do you want to mess with oscillators to make it all from scratch?

most likely the best thing to do is all of them.

for kicks:
set initial frequency at 50-200 hz depending on how thick or deep you want it
high pitch envelope, dropping 12-36 semitones in 30 - 300 milliseconds
sine wave
release times at your taste
whitenoise quiet and possibly filtered (also at your taste, not all that necessary)

snares also have a high pitch envelope
but higher up on a sine wave with very short decay on the volume
then white noise with a slightly longer decay
maybe some FM summing

hihats
just mess around with white noise , filters and volume envelopes

these are just some outlines... you will have to experiment to get it right, but i have gotten some nasty sounds this way.

then load them up in audacity or audition and make new copies of them trying out new fxs...compression..reverbs...random stuff

good luck and experiment!

you WILL get crazy unique sounds if you try.

86. · Post by **86.** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:10 pm

I got ableton, so drum racks.

I layer 5-10 kicks and 5-10 snares usually. tweak them a lot. I spend more time on those than hats or other percs...that's done pretty quick.

but it's the kick and snare tweaking that takes quite a while. not that they're "superior kicks and snares" or anything....but there's a lot of sounds used to make one kick/snare. I find one snare hit doesnt do it for me.

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:39 pm

Drumatic 3 is a fairly tasty free VST - really nice drumsynth, enough options to get you into how drum sounds work without spending hours trying to get something that even sounds like a snare drum out of a synth that was designed for basslines...

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:50 pm

slothrop wrote:Drumatic 3 is a fairly tasty free VST - really nice drumsynth, enough options to get you into how drum sounds work without spending hours trying to get something that even sounds like a snare drum out of a synth that was designed for basslines...

thats kind of an ignorant statement to be honest

what do you think the sound designers putting out sample cds are doing?

waving their magical sample wands?

86. · Post by **86.** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:58 pm

I've never engineered my own drum sounds. I'm gonna have a go when I get home. is it something I could do from now on without use of various packs? that remains to be seen.

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:59 pm

hurlingdervish wrote:
slothrop wrote:Drumatic 3 is a fairly tasty free VST - really nice drumsynth, enough options to get you into how drum sounds work without spending hours trying to get something that even sounds like a snare drum out of a synth that was designed for basslines...
thats kind of an ignorant statement to be honest

what do you think the sound designers putting out sample cds are doing?

waving their magical sample wands?

Eh? Drumatic is a synth that builds stuff up from more-or-less raw waveforms - oscillators, pitch envelopes, volume envelopes, waveshapers. It's essentially nuts and bolts drum synthesis. It's just a bit less daunting for a noob because it's narrowed down to the components that are most likely to actually be useful in producing a kick, a snare, a hat or whatever - maybe easier than loading up Massive or Albino or something and having to start off by figuring out what a snare sound is even made up of in terms of wavetable oscillators and comb filters.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:06 pm

drumatic is nice, no doubt

although that may be good for him i thought we would make this an actual sound design thread

Skipzoid · Post by **Skipzoid** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:09 pm

86. wrote:I layer 5-10 kicks and 5-10 snares usually.

Good god

Is everyone doing this? That seems like a shedload to me, maybe I should give it a try...

I usually layer 2 or 3, if that.

mks · Post by **mks** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:11 pm

86. wrote:I've never engineered my own drum sounds. I'm gonna have a go when I get home. is it something I could do from now on without use of various packs? that remains to be seen.

Naw man, it's will be a difference in timbre between hitting a real drum with heads and with a stick as compared to an electronic synthesis. But still, some cool sounds can be made and especially when you combine the two. (Or just use it by itself for that electro kinda ting.)

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:13 pm

Skipzoid wrote:
86. wrote:I layer 5-10 kicks and 5-10 snares usually.
Good god

Is everyone doing this? That seems like a shedload to me, maybe I should give it a try...

I usually layer 2 or 3, if that.

for me its better to listen to the sample and add frequency content from other samples that it may be missing
if its dampered on the high end...add some sample with more high frequency content
no mids? and some mids by bandpassing something and layering it in

etc

it sounds better than boosting the EQ

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:13 pm

hurlingdervish wrote:drumatic is nice, no doubt

although that may be good for him i thought we would make this an actual sound design thread

Because obviously drumatic isn't a sound design tool? Just, y'know, a bunch of oscillators and envelopes and shit, none of which have any application to sound design...

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:15 pm

slothrop wrote:
hurlingdervish wrote:drumatic is nice, no doubt

although that may be good for him i thought we would make this an actual sound design thread
Because obviously drumatic isn't a sound design tool? Just, y'know, a bunch of oscillators and envelopes and shit, none of which have any application to sound design...

chill

ive found theres a "drumatic" sound

but if you just tell him to use drumatic hell just twist the knobs randomly, best to give the overview that you could apply anywhere

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:17 pm

minimoog. re-sample.

86. · Post by **86.** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:30 pm

Skipzoid wrote:
86. wrote:I layer 5-10 kicks and 5-10 snares usually.
Good god

Is everyone doing this? That seems like a shedload to me, maybe I should give it a try...

I usually layer 2 or 3, if that.

you can try what hurling said above, for me it'll be (for example)

1. 606
2. glass breaking
3. bullet impact
4. white noise
5. part of the sound of a chain scrapping against the floor
6. wood block
7. a dog barking

something like that...and then tweak. to be fair the kicks won't have more than 3 or 4 sounds within. but snares definitely. I'm not sure how many people do this...because a simple way of looking at it is " a snare is a snare". most people aint listenining to your shit thinking "theres mad layers to this man's snare"...so is it necessary? is a straight 606 snare all that I need without adding all these other noises to it that nobody has the time or interest to pick up? I dunno...I like doing it tho

I know someone who has spent all day on drums (specifically kicks and snares) and nothing more. the method can become obsessive. and especially when I consider that my music isnt higher quality than a lot of people's (not that I want it to be super high quality, but you get what I mean).

nowaysj · Post by **nowaysj** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:33 pm

bazzism produces harder dance style kicks using the infected mushroom technique.

jamiejamiejam · Post by **jamiejamiejam** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:17 pm

sick replys. lots of help. and i want to make a beat liek forgive by burial, literally one that fills the song. does this mean that i can do this beat just needs time spent with layering and eging and stuff? essentially if i start off with one beat i just resample eq blah blah?

serox · Post by **serox** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:31 pm

I think you are better off getting some really good quality samples someone has made or sample some good hits yourself.

I suggest finding high quality drums from some oldskool tracks where hardware was used.

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