Typically what sort of %age can artists expect to receive from labels when looking to sign with them for their releases? I found out today that in other areas of the music industry it's 16%?!! Surely it can't be this paltry level in the underground music scene?
Anyone in the know?
What's an artist's cut?
Re: What's an artist's cut?
depends on loads of things,
digital, vinyl, cd, how much its costing to make, distribute, press etc
for digital ive had from 50% - 100%
digital, vinyl, cd, how much its costing to make, distribute, press etc
for digital ive had from 50% - 100%
Re: What's an artist's cut?
every deal i've ever had has specified 50% of net profit.
whether the label actually pay you that or not is another matter. there are a lot of shysters out there, and often they're names that you'd have thought would be pretty honest.
whether the label actually pay you that or not is another matter. there are a lot of shysters out there, and often they're names that you'd have thought would be pretty honest.
Re: What's an artist's cut?
thissetspeed wrote:there are a lot of shysters out there, and often they're names that you'd have thought would be pretty honest.
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Blue Patterns
- Posts: 623
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Re: What's an artist's cut?
expose dem.
panty man record labels
panty man record labels
Re: What's an artist's cut?
3 tingz:
1) Get it in writing.
2) Get it in writing.
3) Get it in writing.
That way they can't say shit when you go to collect your agreed-upon cut. There is no such thing as a gentleman's agreement or handshake-deal. If they balk, walk.
1) Get it in writing.
2) Get it in writing.
3) Get it in writing.
That way they can't say shit when you go to collect your agreed-upon cut. There is no such thing as a gentleman's agreement or handshake-deal. If they balk, walk.
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laurent__duval
- Posts: 2221
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:54 pm
- Location: nottingham
- Contact:
Re: What's an artist's cut?
alphacat wrote:3 tingz:
1) Get it in writing.
2) Get it in writing.
3) Get it in writing.
That way they can't say shit when you go to collect your agreed-upon cut. There is no such thing as a gentleman's agreement or handshake-deal. If they balk, walk.
i have no experience with any of these things but you can't deny that this seems very sensible. i think you could apply this to most things.
Re: What's an artist's cut?
Absolutely - you'd think it was common sense.
However, when you meet, say, some producer that you used to admire back inna day who's got his own record label now, and tells you all sorts of nice things and how unique you are and all that - it's SO easy to get swept up in it and get taken for a ride. Even if it's not exactly this scenario, A&R slime are paid to be charming; I know a couple personally. They're good at establishing themselves as credible, at selling the label as the only logical choice for you & your sound, at making promises they have little intent on keeping. That's their stock-in-trade. And when you're caught in the moment of feeling good about yourself, your music, your future... that's when they get ya.
It was recently reposted somewhere here, but if you haven't read this - do so. Even though it's like 15 years old, most everything in here holds true in some sense.
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
However, when you meet, say, some producer that you used to admire back inna day who's got his own record label now, and tells you all sorts of nice things and how unique you are and all that - it's SO easy to get swept up in it and get taken for a ride. Even if it's not exactly this scenario, A&R slime are paid to be charming; I know a couple personally. They're good at establishing themselves as credible, at selling the label as the only logical choice for you & your sound, at making promises they have little intent on keeping. That's their stock-in-trade. And when you're caught in the moment of feeling good about yourself, your music, your future... that's when they get ya.
It was recently reposted somewhere here, but if you haven't read this - do so. Even though it's like 15 years old, most everything in here holds true in some sense.
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
Re: What's an artist's cut?
50% is pretty standard. I have gotten more than that but I don't accept for less. A few people have tried 40% but I send the contract back and have em fix it. Gotta have some balls as an artist. Actually I did the same thing with an mp3 shop and they gave me 10% more no prob. Ask and you shall receive. And the same thing applies to getting paid. If you ask the label about getting paid often times they will oblige. What you might not realize is you really didn't sell that much. One thing I am putting in my contracts is a minimum payout because paying artists 10 bucks or whatever you kinda lose on transaction fees and stuff. But anyway the point is sometimes the artist will get salty about getting paid when in fact they never even questioned the label about it.
Re: What's an artist's cut?
really though, it makes sod all difference. it's such a small world, what are you gonna do, even if it is all in writing? Sue them for the 150 quid they owe you? Just chalk it up to experience, try not to deal with them again, and believe next time believe your mate Producer XYZ when he tells you someone's a dodgy tnuc....laurent__duval wrote:alphacat wrote:3 tingz:
1) Get it in writing.
2) Get it in writing.
3) Get it in writing.
That way they can't say shit when you go to collect your agreed-upon cut. There is no such thing as a gentleman's agreement or handshake-deal. If they balk, walk.
i have no experience with any of these things but you can't deny that this seems very sensible. i think you could apply this to most things.
Re: What's an artist's cut?
Yeah, sometimes it's small potatoes, and sometimes (when it's major labels) it's just a war of attrition: they can afford to keep it deadlocked in court forever... and most of us cannot. Contracts with majors are almost worthless many times because of this, unless you have some kind of economic/critical clout to back it all up.setspeed wrote:really though, it makes sod all difference. it's such a small world, what are you gonna do, even if it is all in writing? Sue them for the 150 quid they owe you? Just chalk it up to experience, try not to deal with them again, and believe next time believe your mate Producer XYZ when he tells you someone's a dodgy tnuc....
BUT-
If you don't have it in writing in the first place, then you're practically asking to get ass-raped.
Re: What's an artist's cut?
You defo get shit in writing. I send contracts out to everyone on my label. The funny thing is I haven't signed one contract for 3 other labels I have released on... I take that back I just signed one but that is because I don't know them. IMO getting a report with people you are dealing with is even better than a contract. As an artist though you should be doing your homework on labels you are thinking about signing with. Go so far as to contact other artists that have released with them and if you find some shady shit come up, DON"T SIGN. I have had people contact me and I give them the dirt and they still sign. Dumb. Don't be so desperate.alphacat wrote:Yeah, sometimes it's small potatoes, and sometimes (when it's major labels) it's just a war of attrition: they can afford to keep it deadlocked in court forever... and most of us cannot. Contracts with majors are almost worthless many times because of this, unless you have some kind of economic/critical clout to back it all up.setspeed wrote:really though, it makes sod all difference. it's such a small world, what are you gonna do, even if it is all in writing? Sue them for the 150 quid they owe you? Just chalk it up to experience, try not to deal with them again, and believe next time believe your mate Producer XYZ when he tells you someone's a dodgy tnuc....
BUT-
If you don't have it in writing in the first place, then you're practically asking to get ass-raped.
Re: What's an artist's cut?
50% is standard for the artist to get, but you have to keep in mind there is other shit that comes before that.
Example: you buy a track for $2.00 , 40-50% of that goes to the store straight of the top, plus they charge silly expenses on top of that without the label manager usually noticing. If the label isn't run in the same currency as the store there has to be an exchange paid, if they pay via paypal there is more fees, or if they do direct bank deposit there is again fees.
Once it's all said and done, if the label and artist have a "50/50 deal" they are still usually ending up with less than 25% each. Or in this case, .50 to the artist. Hence most big artists just demanding a flat fee up front and not dealing with this BS
Example: you buy a track for $2.00 , 40-50% of that goes to the store straight of the top, plus they charge silly expenses on top of that without the label manager usually noticing. If the label isn't run in the same currency as the store there has to be an exchange paid, if they pay via paypal there is more fees, or if they do direct bank deposit there is again fees.
Once it's all said and done, if the label and artist have a "50/50 deal" they are still usually ending up with less than 25% each. Or in this case, .50 to the artist. Hence most big artists just demanding a flat fee up front and not dealing with this BS
Re: What's an artist's cut?
Great thread, no sarcasm intended at all. Good to see some decent discussion on here
Re: What's an artist's cut?
interesting read, cheers for that.alphacat wrote:Absolutely - you'd think it was common sense.
However, when you meet, say, some producer that you used to admire back inna day who's got his own record label now, and tells you all sorts of nice things and how unique you are and all that - it's SO easy to get swept up in it and get taken for a ride. Even if it's not exactly this scenario, A&R slime are paid to be charming; I know a couple personally. They're good at establishing themselves as credible, at selling the label as the only logical choice for you & your sound, at making promises they have little intent on keeping. That's their stock-in-trade. And when you're caught in the moment of feeling good about yourself, your music, your future... that's when they get ya.
It was recently reposted somewhere here, but if you haven't read this - do so. Even though it's like 15 years old, most everything in here holds true in some sense.
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
Re: What's an artist's cut?
good read...
been asked recently how much i want for an advance for the first time ever, pretty big label, still no contract tho, which is the last time im gona do anything without one coz theres seemed to be no deadlines or anything ive really been told about tbh, i spose the reason i havent been told about % of net sales is because im getting just an upfront amount, ive made my offer etc... but its been left a bit in the open, not knowing how many vinyls are being pressed, and its up for digital soon, i think ive asked for a fair amount but will have to wait and see whats said, bit hard to judge given the situation.
contracts are definatly necessary!
another label im working with at the moment tho is running things really nicely, even getting me more work which is cool!
is anyone from here signed up to prs/mcps at all?
been asked recently how much i want for an advance for the first time ever, pretty big label, still no contract tho, which is the last time im gona do anything without one coz theres seemed to be no deadlines or anything ive really been told about tbh, i spose the reason i havent been told about % of net sales is because im getting just an upfront amount, ive made my offer etc... but its been left a bit in the open, not knowing how many vinyls are being pressed, and its up for digital soon, i think ive asked for a fair amount but will have to wait and see whats said, bit hard to judge given the situation.
contracts are definatly necessary!
another label im working with at the moment tho is running things really nicely, even getting me more work which is cool!
is anyone from here signed up to prs/mcps at all?
Re: What's an artist's cut?
As an artist and label owner / A&R I believe I have an interesting perspective on this subject. 50% seems to be fairly standard, I had one label give me 70%, but their promo was shiite....almost non existent. Its probably worth it to take 60 or 50% with a label that will actually work to promote your tunes and get your name out there. A lot of contracts I have signed state that they are not going to pay out until you gross $50 or more in net profit, unless you ask them specifically to send you a check. You have the right to see sales reports if you ask for them. A lot of the times labels add a clause that states that they must recoup the cost of mastering, distro, adverts, etc. I think its important to clarify how these costs will be met. With my label, Sub Pressure, its costs me approximately $30 per tune to get it mastered and give the distro their cut....I don't even add in the countless hours I spend online promoting our releases, or the cost of Album Art (most of the time friends do it for a favor) Although, once we break even I do intend to pay all of our artists fairly. Since I'm a musician myself, and a lot of people on my roster our friends of mine...it makes me happy to cut a check for them when I can. But you must understand, you can't get paid if your tune isn't selling that many units.
The bottom line is...maintain a good-standing relationship with your label boss / A&R, call them on the phone if you can and chat. And ask for a sales report 3 or 4 months after your release, so you can be sure you are getting paid, or not, properly. Major labels only give 12 - 20%, but they have a huge team of highly paid PR, and marketing reps that get millions of units sold. You get what you pay for, and sometimes it might be worth it to take 50% with a label that will push you harder than 70% with a label that will just throw your songs on digital-tunes and not even respond to you when a big name DJ puts your song in a mix. That's just my personal experience.
The bottom line is...maintain a good-standing relationship with your label boss / A&R, call them on the phone if you can and chat. And ask for a sales report 3 or 4 months after your release, so you can be sure you are getting paid, or not, properly. Major labels only give 12 - 20%, but they have a huge team of highly paid PR, and marketing reps that get millions of units sold. You get what you pay for, and sometimes it might be worth it to take 50% with a label that will push you harder than 70% with a label that will just throw your songs on digital-tunes and not even respond to you when a big name DJ puts your song in a mix. That's just my personal experience.
Re: What's an artist's cut?
Big Up the heavy hitters who stepped up with replies - hopefully this thread will prevent some up & comers from getting the shaft in the future.
Excision & Kial's points about expenses and promotion are important, esp. the promotion bit - that's crucial.
For example, my friends' indie-pop band got signed to a local label started by an ex-Google honcho who obviously had shitloads of cash; the label had its own world class recording studio with a Neve console and all that, something most indie labels don't have. But they did fuck all for promoting any of their acts unless the act managed to get any rep from outside sources or self-promotion... and then they'd grudgingly put a minimum of effort into promoting them in the hope that the band would then become big, which is totally ass backwards. All those millions of dollars this dude sunk into his little vanity label - wasted. But then, you could say that the guy never really wanted to be a record company owner in the first place: he only wanted to live the lifestyle because it was far cooler than Google nerd culture. Sad.
Excision & Kial's points about expenses and promotion are important, esp. the promotion bit - that's crucial.
For example, my friends' indie-pop band got signed to a local label started by an ex-Google honcho who obviously had shitloads of cash; the label had its own world class recording studio with a Neve console and all that, something most indie labels don't have. But they did fuck all for promoting any of their acts unless the act managed to get any rep from outside sources or self-promotion... and then they'd grudgingly put a minimum of effort into promoting them in the hope that the band would then become big, which is totally ass backwards. All those millions of dollars this dude sunk into his little vanity label - wasted. But then, you could say that the guy never really wanted to be a record company owner in the first place: he only wanted to live the lifestyle because it was far cooler than Google nerd culture. Sad.
Re: What's an artist's cut?
18% of gross sales (not profit) is what used to be standard in some genres it isn't as bad as it sounds - doesn't work out that different from 50/50 profit split as its done b4 costs are added - that might be 16% now times are hard I don't know. Dubstep & DNB is usually just 50/50 profit split
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