Dub production question

[levitate]

Hello chaps

Not sure if anyone can help - can someone tell me what the technique used on dub records is that makes the bass kind of duck the rest of the track?

I'm thinking of something like here - courtesy of the amazing Rhythm and Sound: http://open.spotify.com/track/7FIUIghcOQSEAKl7hG3C3Y

It seems really integral to that vintage dub feel - the surface noise is ducked by almost inaudible sub bass, and makes the bass sound seriously weighty...

It is a case of literally just assigning everything to a bus and controlling a sidechain compressor with the bass? Or is there some sort of compressor on the whole mix? It sounds pretty lo-fi rather than uber-digital, I'd love to know how it's created, it seems to be responsible for a huge part of the vibes of this type of music...

Cheers guys

[levitate]

more i think about it the more i think they ran their output through some sort of outboard compressor while they worked, maybe?

[Sharmaji]

compression on bass-heavy material at the mastering stage will squash everything when the bass drops-- there's just more energy in low-end material, so the compressor reacts to it---but winds up making the bass more prominent.

you can do it w/ any software comp, doesn't need to be outboard.

[levitate]

hmmm cheers bro

do you reckon, for instance, that the compressor was applied after the song was finished? it kind of seems so integral to the feel of the track that i'd be tempted to whack it on from the beginning... is this kosher? i presume this is also what flylo and donuts-era dilla do too, so it can't be so wrong can it? this stuff sounds like its using the compressor as an instrument rather than just a mixing tool

[lowpass]

hmmm cheers bro

do you reckon, for instance, that the compressor was applied after the song was finished? it kind of seems so integral to the feel of the track that i'd be tempted to whack it on from the beginning... is this kosher? i presume this is also what flylo and donuts-era dilla do too, so it can't be so wrong can it? this stuff sounds like its using the compressor as an instrument rather than just a mixing tool

What song is it? I can't load it.

[levitate]

'smile'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIptOCTCwr4

the compression sounds a lot harsher on that link though, there must be some compression added by youtube

all the tracks on the album have the same feel this was just the one i was listening to... such good vibes...

[levitate]

anyone got any opinions re: pros/cons of making your tracks with a compressor on the master?

[mks]

I love that tune and all that Rhythm & Sound and Basic Channel stuff. One thing I know is that they owned Dubplates and Mastering and had their own cutting lathe, so they literally had their hands on everything from composing to mastering to cutting the masters and they were tweaking things the entire time.

Cheers

[kaiori breathe]

it would probs be easier to just sidechain it... Youtubes not available atm for me, so search 'luckydate videos sidechaining' or 'luckydate pump pulse video' if you get to luckydate's channel you'll find the video easy enough, his method of doing it is a bit awkward but it's the only way I currently know how to do it and it's fairly effective. He does it with a synth but you can apply the idea to anything.

EDIT: or alternatively just search 'sidechainging' on youtube and you should get decent results

[idlemode]

They did a lot of crazy stuff, running sounds through tape. Through all kinds of outboard gear. They like their analog gear, which makes it hard to emulate their sound in the box. But still we all try i'm sure. I suggest you read some articles, there are just a few i've managed to find on the net. Of course they don't like to go into minute details. Don't want to give away all their secrets i guess... Aparently there is an article in the Feb 2010 edition of the wire magazine with Mark Ernestus. I don't have a copy of that.

Here are a few related links tho:

Excerpts from the Feb 2010 Wire interview:
http://www.factmag.com/2010/01/19/mark- ... riousness/

Moritz Von Oswald interview:
http://www.analoguemagazine.com/intervi ... on-oswald/

Audio: Moritz Von Oswald interview and talk through of Basic Channel/Rhythm & Sound/Main Street tunes.
http://redbullmusicacademyradio.com/shows/1346/

Video: Moritz Von Oswald video for red bull music academy:
http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lond ... freestyles

Moritz interview:
http://www.littlewhiteearbuds.com/lwe-i ... on-oswald/
http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/132/?pageno=2

Deepchord - good read anyways:
http://www.littlewhiteearbuds.com/talki ... e-detroit/

[idlemode]

tip 1. just a starting point for you to try if you're in the box.

minor chord, dminor for example. use a simple analog imitation vst instrument. find a nice patch. sample. load it into a sampler. run it through nice fx chains. chorus + delay + reverb + saturate + compresser at end to make it mesh together.

play them very low on the keyboard. use sends to more fx chains.

[Sharmaji]

Mixing down w/ a compressor on the master channel is great if you know what yr doing. Try it, bypass, etc. Think of it as "feeding" the comp. Its all a out forcing an interaction between elements at that point-- 2db of comp will be a huge sonic change.

Yes, people have made great records with amazing outboard gear. They've done the same on alesis 3630's, on shit adats, and on $30k protools rigs. I'm a stickler for quality thru and thru, and there are plenty of times where software will beat hardware-- don't let the mythology fool you.

[levitate]

idlemode - cheers i'll get through those this evening

i kind of assumed that they were quite hardwarey types, being from a dub background primarily

i totally love this rhythm and sound (err...) sound. never thought basic channel were as amazing as everyone seems to think, but perhaps i need to rethink. i recommend the self titled rhythm and sound album to anyone, its pure vibes, very inspiring musically...