Hi-Hat - swingy groove help

[yamaz]

I'm still not getting the typical dubstep swingy feel. Am I right in thinking that it's primarily the hi hat pattern that creates this by taking two seperate similar hi hat patterns and layering them? Using Triplets for one or both or neither pattern of each of the two hi hats? Also do you normally put an open hat on the offbeat to build movement and help this swing along?

Does anyone use a delay pattern to create a similar feel, synced or unsynced for syncopation? Does anyone use groove/swing patterns like the MPC ones to get this swing? If so applied to the entire beat or just the hats?

An inquiring mind wants to know

[Depone]

I'm still not getting the typical dubstep swingy feel. Am I right in thinking that it's primarily the hi hat pattern that creates this by taking two seperate similar hi hat patterns and layering them? Using Triplets for one or both or neither pattern of each of the two hi hats? Also do you normally put an open hat on the offbeat to build movement and help this swing along?

Does anyone use a delay pattern to create a similar feel, synced or unsynced for syncopation? Does anyone use groove/swing patterns like the MPC ones to get this swing? If so applied to the entire beat or just the hats?

An inquiring mind wants to know

try all of what you said man. To be honest i rarely use triplets, normally some medium swing at around 59%.

As for the whole beat swing, i only do this to Hats, cymbals and anything percussive excluding my kicks and snares. Because they are normally on the beats of the bars swing wont effect them.
Within logic i use the MPC3000 swings for that classic swung feel. I also use my Akai MPD swings on my drum pads for the same reason. Experiment, retry and reflect...

[nowaysj]

Yo, bring a track into your daw that you think has the kind of swung hats that you like. Determine the tempo, and look for yourself where the hats are, and their relation to the grid. Depending on your daw, you can create groove templates off of the swing that you find in your analysis track. Failing that you can just set up markers where the hats go, and slot your own hats in. All in the name of learning though, bro. This type of study will only get you part of the way down the path of writing dope ass hats, the reset will be how you creatively implement what you've learned from the masters you study.

[gravity]

turn off quantize and put them where it sounds right

[Sinisterbeats]

Use different velocitys and layer different patterns. You could also use a delay as a send to fill out your hats even more.

[Pedro Sánchez]

try all of what you said man. To be honest i rarely use triplets, normally some medium swing at around 59%.

This, 59% to 62% swing will give you that hat shuffle, then you can go into your midi note editor and push a few back or forward a tad for more of a live feel. I just play them live on the mpd pads myself.

edit: also automating the pitch of hat very slightly will make a difference to the feel.
check out blackdowns article on the swing ting: http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.com/2 ... -jazz.html, tips from the masters.

[staticcast]

All good tips. Also a few reversed sounds (hihats, snares, noise) or samples with a longer attack and fast decay (certain shakers for example) can really help a rhythm part feel more organic and rhythmic rather than just a load of notes sequenced to a grid.

[serox]

I'm still not getting the typical dubstep swingy feel. Am I right in thinking that it's primarily the hi hat pattern that creates this by taking two seperate similar hi hat patterns and layering them? Using Triplets for one or both or neither pattern of each of the two hi hats? Also do you normally put an open hat on the offbeat to build movement and help this swing along?

Does anyone use a delay pattern to create a similar feel, synced or unsynced for syncopation? Does anyone use groove/swing patterns like the MPC ones to get this swing? If so applied to the entire beat or just the hats?

An inquiring mind wants to know

u can get swing by having things quantized on 16ths. You can create the swing by moving the snare around or the kick.

It is really important what samples you use. I have had some wicked grooves going and you change 1 hi hat and the whole thing is totally fucked.

Velocity, dfiferent hi hats and pitch all play a part.

I never use any swing buttons.

[Brisance]

use FL's shift parameter

[cloak and dagger]

It is really important what samples you use.

THIS. I've said this again and again and still firmly believe that the samples you use are more important than anything else when it comes to getting a good shuffle or a making a beat with a lot of swing to it.

[Depone]

I'm still not getting the typical dubstep swingy feel. Am I right in thinking that it's primarily the hi hat pattern that creates this by taking two seperate similar hi hat patterns and layering them? Using Triplets for one or both or neither pattern of each of the two hi hats? Also do you normally put an open hat on the offbeat to build movement and help this swing along?

Does anyone use a delay pattern to create a similar feel, synced or unsynced for syncopation? Does anyone use groove/swing patterns like the MPC ones to get this swing? If so applied to the entire beat or just the hats?

An inquiring mind wants to know

u can get swing by having things quantized on 16ths. You can create the swing by moving the snare around or the kick.

It is really important what samples you use. I have had some wicked grooves going and you change 1 hi hat and the whole thing is totally fucked.

Velocity, dfiferent hi hats and pitch all play a part.

I never use any swing buttons.

Everything you just said i do the opposite. If you move your kicks and snares around the hats, your gonna get weird rhythms that arent really dj friendly. Swing is in the hats and percussion not the kicks and snares.

u can get swing by having things quantized on 16ths

This isnt swing. this is straight 16th notes...

[Depone]

I'm still not getting the typical dubstep swingy feel. Am I right in thinking that it's primarily the hi hat pattern that creates this by taking two seperate similar hi hat patterns and layering them? Using Triplets for one or both or neither pattern of each of the two hi hats? Also do you normally put an open hat on the offbeat to build movement and help this swing along?

Does anyone use a delay pattern to create a similar feel, synced or unsynced for syncopation? Does anyone use groove/swing patterns like the MPC ones to get this swing? If so applied to the entire beat or just the hats?

An inquiring mind wants to know

u can get swing by having things quantized on 16ths. You can create the swing by moving the snare around or the kick.

It is really important what samples you use. I have had some wicked grooves going and you change 1 hi hat and the whole thing is totally fucked.

Velocity, dfiferent hi hats and pitch all play a part.

I never use any swing buttons.

Everything you just said i do the opposite. If you move your kicks and snares around the hats, your gonna get weird rhythms that arent really dj friendly. Swing is in the hats and percussion not the kicks and snares.

u can get swing by having things quantized on 16ths

This isnt swing. this is straight 16th notes...

[tripwire22]

try having 3 hats with delay and 2 with out that are hard quatizied might work for u if u put it right. or just do what everyone else said

[Japanese Narco Girl]

swing is basically having a dotted crotchet followed by a quaver, or a dotted quaver followed by a semi quaver, as opposed to straight rhythms which would be two crotcehts or two quavers.

the first bar of this notation is straight. the start of the second bar is swung:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Clavepattern.svg

this is a swung rhythm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dotte ... teenth.png

the amount of swing can vary but it is essentially what I have shown in the pictures above. if you cant imagine what those pictures sound like, find some examples of swung and straight rhythms and compare. once you understand the theory of it a bit more you can choose to use the swing settings on your DAW or to just programme the rhythms swung already. either way can get good results, sometimes if you programme a swung rhythm and then add swing it can be interesting too.

also adding some delay using an aux send can help the hi hats roll nicely, but too much will make them too messy.
using plenty of different (but similar sounding) hat samples will give it a more organic feel, especially if they are all recorded from the same hi hat. layering shakers can help fatten up the percussive high end and putting in open hats can give different feels.

[serox]

Everything you just said i do the opposite. If you move your kicks and snares around the hats, your gonna get weird rhythms that arent really dj friendly. Swing is in the hats and percussion not the kicks and snares.

u can get swing by having things quantized on 16ths

This isnt swing. this is straight 16th notes...

DJ friendly? if the kick and snare is quantized it is DJ friendly.

Moving the kick/snare around a bit can often give a feeling of swing as you are changing the groove. You can also do it without moving the kick/snare and use only the hi hats too.

I would disagree if you are saying you cannot create any swing by using things on 16ths only.

I would say this groove has a swing feel to it but its all 16ths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oexYDeIvYPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v2bSQFHIfQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLaNNRLR ... re=related

[staticcast]

Everything you just said i do the opposite. If you move your kicks and snares around the hats, your gonna get weird rhythms that arent really dj friendly. Swing is in the hats and percussion not the kicks and snares.

u can get swing by having things quantized on 16ths

This isnt swing. this is straight 16th notes...

DJ friendly? if the kick and snare is quantized it is DJ friendly.

Moving the kick/snare around a bit can often give a feeling of swing as you are changing the groove. You can also do it without moving the kick/snare and use only the hi hats too.

I would disagree if you are saying you cannot create any swing by using things on 16ths only.

I would say this groove has a swing feel to it but its all 16ths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oexYDeIvYPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v2bSQFHIfQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLaNNRLR ... re=related

All those clips have swung 16th notes mate, not straight 16ths...

TJ

[serox]

All those clips have swung 16th notes mate, not straight 16ths...

TJ

Whats the difference?

I thought the swing effect comes from the samples/vel/pitch but it is all quantized on 16ths.

[Basic A]

All those clips have swung 16th notes mate, not straight 16ths...

TJ

Whats the difference?

I thought the swing effect comes from the samples/vel/pitch but it is all quantized on 16ths.

Nah swin turns quanitze off n goes all Burial on your shit.

[serox]

Nah swin turns quanitze off n goes all Burial on your shit.

I thought it was possible to have swing without removing quantize.

I want to know the difference between swung 16ths and straight 16ths! if they are all on a grid I dont see what is different.

[staticcast]

All those clips have swung 16th notes mate, not straight 16ths...

TJ

Whats the difference?

I thought the swing effect comes from the samples/vel/pitch but it is all quantized on 16ths.

Nope. "Swung 16th notes" means the time grid is shifted so that every second 16th note is slightly delayed. So instead of this:

1-------e-------&-------a-------2-------e-------&-------a-------3-------e-------&-------a-------4-------e-------&-------a-------

You get this:

1----------e----&----------a----2----------e----&----------a----3----------e----&----------a----4----------e----&----------a----

(counting the standard way for 16ths, ie 1-e-and-a-2-e-and-a-3-e-and-a-4-e-and-a)

The amount of swing is how much the grid is wonked. 0% swing is the top drawing. I'm not sure whether it depends on the DAW or if there's some accepted standard, but I would guess that 100% swing is where the length ratio is 75% : 25% as any more than that wouldn't be very musically meaningful.

BTW, the same applies for all note divisions, so with 8th note swing you leave out the "e" and "a" and delay the "and" instead.