DSF usability makeover? (Enhanced Search and peer systems)

[futures_untold]

A system enabling you to find the information you need faster, it works like this;

1. A simple search form is prominently displayed on every page.

2. Users tag posts with relevant keywords.

3. The keywords trigger automatic lists of relevant threads as the title for each new thread or search bar query is typed.

4. Information becomes easier to find allowing more people to learn faster.

5. The intellectual level of debate rises as less repeat content is posted and existing content is edited for accuracy.

6. Progressive developments become the norm within our music scene.

7. The party is on and everyone is a winner!

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The outline above is based on the ideas of Web 3.0 and in particular, the Stackexchange model of providing forums.

Stackexchange sites allow visitors to quickly ask and recieve answers to questions.

We can see the progressiveness of Stackexchange's system in the debate that continues throughout this thread. If you want to share any thoughts, by all means post below before voting as the system is indeed flexible.

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Stackexchange Style Forums and How They Work

Each question and answer can be voted up or down like comments on Youtube.

Users gain reputation points when their answers are voted up by others.

When users reach various levels of reputation, they can do different things on the board such as edit other peoples posts, lock off-topic posts etc. On DSF, this could be used to ban links from newbs and spammers until they have contributed sufficiently to the community (5 posts or something).

The answer with the highest amount of votes is displayed first. This means new visitors don't need to read an entire thread to find the best answer.

People who give good answers and thus gain high levels of reputation points gain similar powers as mods. This enables community policing which in turn helps keep the site on topic.

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Users of Stackoverflow sites have to add tags to each question. These tags make searching for relavant posts very accurate, as every single post ever created on the site is tagged.

As a user types a new question in a stackoverflow site, other similar threads with the relavant tag words are listed automatically. Many times, these threads contain the answers to the new question about to be asked. This helps minimise common questions being asked repeatedly.

Proof in the pudding, try searching for something related to HTML or C++ etc using the stackoverflow search bar. (The search bar is located in the top right corner)

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Finally, users gain badges according to what they do on the site. This can be an incentive to give good answers to questions posted. http://stackoverflow.com/badges

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Help bring about positive changes to DSF, by voting in the poll at the top of this thread!

Pat

[nowaysj]

Nope.

I like linear threads from oldest to newest. A thread is a conversation, to break that flow does a disservice to everyone engaged in the conversation.

I also like a flat power structure, with one benevolent monarch.

So no, bro.

[futures_untold]

Users can still debate in a forum thread like manner on stackexchange sites. Each 'answer' can have its own comments, thus it is very easy to stay on topic whilst debating offshoot thoughts and ideas all within the same thread. Comments given to a particular answer move up and down with the answer itself and remain in chronological order. This q&a thread shows an example of this happening in practice.

Scroll down to see multiple valid answers, several of whcih have their own comments. This keeps the main answers on point, while users are given a chance to discuss the vagaries of each comment separately.

But more to the point, ask yourself how many times you feel like answering the following questions.

'How do I make a wobble?'

'How do I make an Excision/Datsik/Borgore bass?'

'What bitcrusher should I use for formant bass?'

Sometimes these questions get old fast, and when accurate answers already exist in other threads, they need to be automatically linked to and voted up before repeat questions are posted. With an improved q&a system combined with tagging etc, the site would actually become conducive to getting proper answers to interesting questions.

The ability to edit and otherwise open or close other peoples questions is only bestowed on people which other community members have voted up. This is in fact far more democratic than having a handful of mods. People like Deadly Habit, Macc and Depone give consistently good responses to other members questions. Is there really any harm in allowing such valuable members of the DSF production community to edit/modify inappropriate or off-topic threads?

Pat

[nowaysj]

'How do I make an Excision/Datsik/Borgore bass?'

'What bitcrusher should I use for formant bass?'

I'm really content to post up an unending assortment of alpaca pics in those threads (until brostepforum is taken seriously, then we can send those people over there).

Not trying to be a negative nelly, but I like a nice simple forum. I have the intellectual capabilities to sort and rank users and the quality of their posts and information. I don't need 16 year olds doing that for me.

[futures_untold]

'How do I make an Excision/Datsik/Borgore bass?'

'What bitcrusher should I use for formant bass?'

I'm really content to post up an unending assortment of alpaca pics in those threads (until brostepforum is taken seriously, then we can send those people over there).

Valid up to a point, but then we start to see threads like:

'We need more mods on DSF!'

&

'Can we stop being harsh to the n00bz....'

Critically, the quality of the knowledge on the DSF production subforum would improve if the amount of repeat content and bumpf was cut down.

I have the intellectual capabilities to sort and rank users and the quality of their posts and information. I don't need 16 year olds doing that for me.

16 year olds?

[contakt321]

I too am a simple man content to post my own alpaca pictures.

I also am very Darwinistic - if a noob CAN'T do a search instead of asking the same exact question the same exact way, I CAN'T answer.

I never answer wobble threads, but I do try to answer every thread I know the answer, or have a potentially useful opinion for.

[futures_untold]

Critically, the quality of the knowledge on the DSF production subforum would improve if the amount of repeat content and bumpf was cut down.

Furthermore, many n00bs are fairly computer illiterate. The concept of a search function within a forum is unknown to many people.

By providing automatically direct links to similar threads as questions are typed, people would be able to learn the answers they sought without having to post repeat content.

Surely this is more progressive than flaming people for their lack of knowledge?

Try typing in a question in the title box on the Stackoverflow 'post new question' page to see why I believe this is progressive. Compare that to using the DSF search function. (If you need an example programming question, copy and paste 'how do I use javascript to create moving boxes?' into the title box of the Stackoverflow 'new questions page').

[nowaysj]

I have the intellectual capabilities to sort and rank users and the quality of their posts and information. I don't need 16 year olds doing that for me.

16 year olds?

Yeah bro, I don't need echelons of borgore fans ranking the quality of responses or users for me. I will do my own ranking.

Be kind to noobz thread is a joke and an embarrassment. We need more mods, for fucking what? Sharmasharmasharmasharmasharma chameleon does a fine job. Occasionally cell phone ads make it up on the board for a while, but again, I have the intellectual capabilities to skip over the thread title. Now if the boards were rife with that shit, yeah, I'd be outty, but that's not the way it is.

Listen to my toons are occassionally thrown up, but then pretty quickly locked down.

Sorry bro, I just don't see your proposed changes adding any value to my experience here at dsf.

[futures_untold]

By making information related to production easier to find, people of all skill levels (and tastes) would be able to learn what they need to know rapidly. This would enable people to return faster to their music making with new found knowledge and ideas to implement.

While the current DSF board is familiar and friendly for regulars, many people also openly complain against the difficulty in finding information and the fact that genuine questions are flamed. (Example of n00b with a valid question being flamed in an amusing manner).

Participants of stackexchange sites still judge for themselves who is posting relavant content and who regularly makes strong contributions. Just because a group of sheeple vote up an answer to a common question, other answers are still present for debating, and may in fact be more relavant to you personally. This is why a voting system is good, because we can then affirm with others what opinions are popular and which are merely held by small pockets of individuals etc.

The kind of system I'm proposing would add to users experience, as the core functionality remains exactly the same. That is, people still ask questions and share info, and others still provide answers and debate info. People are still able to comment on the posts of others and can still make alpaca jokes or go troll flaming.

Pat

[futures_untold]

While the current DSF board is familiar and friendly for regulars, many people also openly complain against the difficulty in finding information and the fact that genuine questions are flamed. (Example of n00b with a valid question being flamed in an amusing manner).

In the example given above, imagine what a progressive experience using DSF would have been for the n00b had the links I provided at the bottom of the thread automatically been presented as he typed his question.

Do we see how powerful this kind of sytem can be.

In fact, perhaps we should bring the related concepts of Web 3.0 to the table? A brief overview of things to come can be found at http://internet.suite101.com/article.cfm/what_is_web_30

More info on Web 3.0 and the 'semantic web' can be found on Google.

[LordBid]

there should just be a giant banner or something that says "DONT POST YOUR FUCKING TUNE IN THE PRODUCTION FORUM"

[nowaysj]

Edit - okay, you posted something before I replied here. (chat functionality, anyone).

[futures_untold]

there should just be a giant banner or something that says "DONT POST YOUR FUCKING TUNE IN THE PRODUCTION FORUM"

Because this doesn't solve users needs for finding relevant information, this hasn't really worked so far imo...

How does your proposed system prevent people from posting up the how do I make robot fart threads?

It doesn't, but as mentioned above the stackexchange system presents a list of relevant threads as the new question is being typed. Thus, information is really really easy to find. In many instances, people won't actually need to post their question, especially if relevant threads are presented under their nose.

The current DSF search function is long-winded to use compared to the simplicity of Google' search box. Furthermore, very little space on the site is dedicated to promoting its use. Some users choose to promote the search function, yet this often part of a flame response towards a n00b.

With regards to promoting DSF's site search function, we can all paste the following code into our signature strips to make searching a more known about feature.

Code: Select all

[url=http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=002207347744245223449%3A3wxoicg4myg][color=#008000][b]Google Search Dubstepforum[/b][/color][/url]

(See my sig strip for an example of what the code will produce).

The information is already available, yet the same questions are asked repeatedly.

How far must we go to spoon feed knowledge?

Well, if one reads many hobby magazines like Computer Music, one will soon see that they to repeat the information they provide. Regular provision of elementary information is good, as it speeds up the learning process for n00bs. Very quickly, they become capable of reasoned debate within the field being discussed, and can soon innovate rather than simply imitate.

Who here doesn't want to hear new sounds developing, pushing the boundaries of what we thought was possible to create and enjoy? By giving visitors fast answers to common questions, we see a raised level of discussion following the raised level of education. Knowledge is powerful in the minds of the young, and without the social restrictions older people often limit themselves with, fresh ideas bring about innovative changes.

[futures_untold]

Just to clarify the system proposed:


1. A simple search form is prominently displayed on every page.

2. Users tag posts with relevant keywords.

3. The keywords trigger automatic lists of relevant threads as the title for each new thread is typed.

4. Information becomes easier to find allowing more people to learn faster.

5. The intellectual level of debate rises as less repeat content is posted and existing content is edited for accuracy.

6. Progressive developments become the norm within our music scene.

7. The party is on and everyone is a winner!

[contakt321]

Just to play devils advocate:

1. Users tag posts with relevant keywords.
If someone is too lazy/dumb to search, wont they be too dumb to use keywords?

2. The keywords trigger automatic lists of relevant threads as the title for each new thread is typed.
So everyone will use "filth" as their keyword? I kid, in all seriousness, to me, the search function here is not bad, the issue is it's hard to search when stuff like "lfo" is used in so many different kinds of threads, etc, etc.

3. Information becomes easier to find allowing for more people to learn faster.
Is that hard to find stuff on this forum? I mean you may have to run through a few pages, but is it that bad? I refuse to believe that it's hard to find a thread about wobbles, massive, etc. How easy does it need to be? I argue that for most of the people no matter how easy, they are just lazy. Should we cater to them?

4. The intellectual level of debate raises as less repeat content is posted.
Theoretically true. Again, is it bad on here? Do we need intellectual comments about "filth"?

5. Progressive developments become the norm within our music scene.
I think this may be the issue, there are a lot of new people coming to this scene, and they are content w/ brostep/wobblebanger/filth - in America, this is THE identity of dubstep for MOST. I think it's a weird time, many veterans, longtime fans, etc are all pushing the boundaries in different direction - there is no ONE new direction, meanwhile, filling the void are people obsessed with the filthiest of filthy wobble.
6. The party is on and everyone is a winner!
Party has been on my friend

I think the idea you have for improvement is probably great, I think my semi-joking opposition is that the barriers to entry are already low, do they need to be lower? Does it need to be any easier for people? It's lightyears easy to learn to make music and to get the tools to do it. It just seems like we are spoonfeeding at a certain point. Know what I mean?

[futures_untold]

Just to play devils advocate:

Excellent!

With more debate surrounding the ideas of Web 3.0, the web will improve faster globally.

1. Users tag posts with relevant keywords.
If someone is too lazy/dumb to search, wont they be too dumb to use keywords?

When we type words into an Amazon, Ebay or Google search box, with each new letter typed, new search suggestions are proposed. How many of us still bother typing full queries when the auto complete function quickly gives us relevant links in a drop down menu?

Users needn't 'know' how to use keywords, typing a new thread title automatically gives users relevant links based on the words typed. The more words typed, the more likely a specific answer will be produced if it already exists. Where no answers are available, the user submits a new thread!

There are two ways to make such a system functional.

1. User tagging as seen on Facebook, Youtube, Flickr and Stackexchange websites etc
2. Traditional search techniques, returning all instances of a word or search string.

When each post has multiple tags and each thread title contains more than one word, the task of sorting relevant results is easier. Only threads that contain all the relevant 'keywords' are returned to the user, who then decides whether to read an existing thread or to continue posting their new thread.

2. The keywords trigger automatic lists of relevant threads as the title for each new thread is typed.
So everyone will use "filth" as their keyword? I kid, in all seriousness, to me, the search function here is not bad, the issue is it's hard to search when stuff like "lfo" is used in so many different kinds of threads, etc, etc.

Typing only one word would yield few exactly relevant results. Yet as the user types more words, the amount of relevant threads presented becomes more pertinent.

Typing 'Filthy Borgore Ear Rape' will return only threads with the terms 'Filthy' + 'Borgore' + 'Ear' + 'Rape' in the thread.

This is what we are accustomed to using Google and other large search engien sites. On a smaller site like DSF, user tags can go a long way in marking content as relevant.

3. Information becomes easier to find allowing for more people to learn faster.
Is that hard to find stuff on this forum? I mean you may have to run through a few pages, but is it that bad? I refuse to believe that it's hard to find a thread about wobbles, massive, etc. How easy does it need to be? I argue that for most of the people no matter how easy, they are just lazy. Should we cater to them?

To elaborate on this, perhaps we can make an analogy?

How easy should access to healthcare be? I mean, we all grow up in a city and know where the hospitals are, so why should ambulances be provided? Surely this is lazy?

By providing the relevant info to interested parties in the quickest fashion possible, everyone can spend time reading, learning and debating rather than searching and becoming frustrated with a lack of knowledge and posting repeat content.

4. The intellectual level of debate raises as less repeat content is posted.
Theoretically true. Again, is it bad on here? Do we need intellectual comments about "filth"?

Often there are some wonderful posts on DSF! But why complain if a larger amount of interesting and intellectually stimulating threads are posted?

We needn't debate something like 'filth' necessarily, this is something we simply feel and understand on the dancefloor. Yet from a music production perspective, discussing techniques should surely be highly encouraged?

With automatic spoonfeeding in place, n00bz quickly become serious contributers to the production community and develop new styles which we all can learn from.

5. Progressive developments become the norm within our music scene.
I think this may be the issue, there are a lot of new people coming to this scene, and they are content w/ brostep/wobblebanger/filth - in America, this is THE identity of dubstep for MOST. I think it's a weird time, many veterans, longtime fans, etc are all pushing the boundaries in different direction - there is no ONE new direction, meanwhile, filling the void are people obsessed with the filthiest of filthy wobble.

Diversity is healthy and fads come and go. By creating and promoting a wide range of sounds, we guard against niche-inbredism where an ardent group of followers become vocal and extremist.

Providing user friendly systems for information discovery enables people who hate one style to learn ways of creating alternative styles.

The barriers to entry are already low, do they need to be lower? Does it need to be any easier for people? It's lightyears easy to learn to make music and to get the tools to do it. It just seems like we are spoonfeeding at a certain point. Know what I mean?

Lower barriers and systematic support foster a sense of entrepreneurial spirit. Speaking with many immigrants in the UK about business opportunities here, the common theme is that the UK's lax rules for business start-up and widespread educational support enables people to make their dreams reality.

[Sharmaji]

I will say this-- admist the endless noise of yagga yagga questions, people's posts about the artistic process, musicality, etc have been up the upswing. this is great. the last crop of peeps to get active in the DSF production area are maturing... this is good! now DON'T ABANDON IT

unfortunately it appears that the feedback threads are withering, as compared to last month. thoughts?

I like the idea of web3.0 functionality but it'd require an entire revamping of DSF and i personally don't see it in the cards. Will ask my fellow mods tho.


now, here's Olivia Wilde in a bikini:

[nowaysj]

Honestly, I can't be bothered to read further than this, because I just don't care about this topic that much, and by the lack of posts by other users, I assume this sentiment is shared, so consider this topic reviewed and rated by the group, and the group has determined that this idea has no value. HA HA HA.

Sorry, I just had to go Web 3.o on your ass!

Now if the web 3.o could send Olivia over to my place... you might be on to something.

[futures_untold]

Web 3.0 will make us all more knowledgeable as we find the information we want quickly.

The real question is, are we sowing the seeds of Skynet?

[yellowhighlighter]

let's just give dsf a 4chan makeover.